I apologize for not taking time to reply to quote pyramids about my common observations that feminists themselves say exist and speak out against, especially when debating feminism... I don't have the time for this non-sense. Let's cut straight to the heart of the matter, or top of the argumentation pyramid, as the case may be. I don't find compelling arguments for inclusion of Feminism in games, or in life in general.
I think it's understandable to confuse Feminism with Misandy, or male hate. In fact, I have a rather hard time separating Feminism from Sexism. So, neither are welcome in my games. Anyone who thinks I misunderstand feminism itself would be wrong. I have tried to grasp their logic, but it makes no sense to me at all. Action speaks louder than any words.
I understand the textbook definition of feminism (i.e. the goal of equal rights for men and women by bringing up the rights to be equal to that of men) which is why I always found people against feminism to be silly and sexist.
I question how much you've actually researched Feminism? Have you done so seriously? I'm for women's rights and men's rights. I'm not for feminism. It would be like saying all good people are Christians. Do not conflate the term Feminist with Woman's rights or Equality, it's more than that, and equality and womens and mens rights can and do exist without requiring any Feminism. Feminism claims to be about gender equality, but their body of writing also includes advocation of reducing the influence of the Patriarchy through male genocide (from multiple feminist authors), and an unproven theory that Patriarchy is currently to blame for much of society's structure and oppression. It's a movement. There is no "textbook definition" of feminism. They simply align themselves with things you perceive as good, similar to being a "Good Christian". Can there exist good without Christianity? Yes? Then there can exist womens rights and mens rights and equality outside of Feminism.
A common insidious tactic of Feminist propaganda is to claim all gender issues as their own.... With no legitimate competition in the gender issue arena, They can and do selectively support primarily female rights to the detriment of males. Movie bob said Feminist terms a few times in his latest video.... I think he's been deceived of what that word means. It's indicative of how pervasive this seemingly innocuous dogma has become.
I've searched for years and never found multiple agreeing conclusive definitions. It's like trying to define what a Christian is, i.e. you would be wise to include all the folks who claim to be Christian, all the denominations and protestants and catholics, evangelicals, etc. Yet, to define Feminism as the collective teachings of feminists, you run into some fairly serious cognitive dissonance in that multiple of the authors of Feminist literature, even some taught in Womens' Study courses (of which I have attended two) have misandrists among their numbers. There appears to be several breeds of Feminism, it's a very vague term. It ranges in everything from Equal Rights for Women, to threatening to castrate 100 men [http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1876&dat=19940114&id=vzkfAAAAIBAJ&sjid=Ms8EAAAAIBAJ&pg=2404,4433671] if Lorena Bobbit (a convicted male genital mutilator) were sent to prison. This was a statement by a National Feminist Association... You'd think they would be more sensitive to the innocent males they're OK with castrating, or at least threaten to castrate 50 males and 50 females? Bad joke, but you get "the point".
Further:
Wikipedia said:
Media attention surrounding the case resulted in national debate and also sparked a flurry of jokes, limericks, T-shirt slogans, advertising gimmicks,
It was OK to joke about this man's penis being wrongfully severed. Yet I see only efforts by Feminists to rally around Bobbit, not distance themselves from her. Instead they reached out to her and she became a symbol of female pride among some feminists.
Notably: It's not OK to joke about female mutilation in mainstream media... It's OK to laugh and joke about castrating men, is the message I perceive. You would think, in a Patriarchy ruled by men, the opposite would be true? Feminist media is vastly disproportionate in opposition of Female Circumcision (labeling it Genital Mutilation) than they are of Male "Genital Mutilation". It's standard procedure to circumcise males, and although "real feminists" look down on the practice, they're outright outraged at the idea of female circumcision, campaigning vigorously against
female genital mutilation....... Not just Circumcision in general? Why exclude male babies from the relief of not having their wankers chopped on? [http://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/feminist-violence/u-n-calls-for-circumcision-ban-for-females-only/]
I think it's interesting. When I follow the feminist movement it seems to be less focused on equality, and merely getting more rights only for women while seeking less rights or more punishments for men. For folks supposedly being the only equality movement we need for both sexes, they lack a large section of male equality issues.
Selective Service, for example. Men could vote because men were required by law to die for their country. I think women should vote, and also share the burden of duty to their country. If not fighting in war, then at least being enlisted to make machines of war -- That's how we won WWII, right? The factories staffed with both male and female workers made more airplanes than we could even fly off the runway. Perhaps women and men should have a choice of which? Or perhaps a lottery.
What of male reproductive rights? What if a woman had sex, got pregnant, and could be forced by the male partner to carry the child to term if he insisted, and she was not allowed to give the child up for adoption? That would suck, eh? That's what it's like to be a male. Men don't have a choice in the matter. If the woman wants she can force the male to pay child support for 18 years or so, for a pregnancy he never wanted. He can not give the child up for adoption, that is her choice, and it should be, but a man should be able to have choices where they do make sense. Why is he not allowed to opt out of fatherhood? If a man fails to provide for the child he will be thrown in jail. Jailed. For Debt. We outlawed debtor's prison... except for Fathers. Feminists lobby for increased alimony and child support payments, and stricter punishments for men. The whole procreation process is ruled by females, as it should be, but it enslaves males to obey the whim of a female for 18 years of his life, just for a single good time. Don't like it? Go to jail.
Meanwhile, a woman can drop the baby off at a safe-house no questions asked. The female can just opt out of motherhood at several times during the conception and gestation. She has no responsibility required, no 18 years of mandatory child support payment, and she's not even required to tell the father she's gotten pregnant, and give him at least the option of taking the responsibly. Not that she can't tell him, but that she doesn't have any responsibility, the man does. Even though the male can't even gauge the risk of pregnancy -- Only the woman knows if she's been taking her pills, she knows at every stage of sex what's going on, but the male doesn't know about her body, nor should he have to; Despite the vast power difference in favor of women having nearly all the control and choice in the reproductive rights, she has no obligations at all, but the man does. These issues are woefully under represented in Feminism, along with many, many, many, many others, yet they claim to be about equality for both men and women. If you believe in feminist movement then you believe in something that says one thing, but consistently does something
very different.
You can't just cherry pick. You've got to take Feminism for what it is. You can't say, "just because some Christians believe in God, doesn't mean they all do." The core principals of Feminism are what is deeply flawed, Patriarchy Theory is evil as shit!
For instance. Mens' shelters are rare, and get very little funding, yet domestic and sexual violence against men is right up there with domestic and sexual violence of females.
http://www.cdc.gov/ViolencePrevention/pdf/NISVS_Report2010-a.pdf
The findings in the detailed state tables show a range in lifetime victimization experiences of rape, sexual violence other than rape, and intimate partner violence across states.
Lifetime estimates for women ranged from 11.4% to 29.2% for rape; 28.9% to 58% for sexual violence other than rape; and 25.3% to 49.1% for rape, physical violence, and/or stalking by an intimate partner.
For men, lifetime estimates ranged from 10.8% to 33.7% for sexual violence other than rape; and 17.4% to 41.2% for rape, physical violence, and/or stalking by an intimate partner.
25--49 vs 17--41 That's not some vast difference that would necessitate the vast difference in the amount of spending in favor of battered womens' shelters, vs battered mens' shelters... Yet, Feminists don't proportionately lobby for mens shelters, and instead they concentrate on the risk of men raping women pretty much exclusively. Even the Almighty Anita pulls out the damn rape numbers in her latest video, and fails to mention men's rape statistics for comparison.
Why would you do this to me Patriarchy? Why would Patriarchy rape men almost as much as women? I thought patriarchy was about Being severely slanted against women and for men? Don't feminists teach that men are only a small percentage of rape victims? Why would women account for ~40% of rape perpetrators?
And yet Feminists insist that a Patriarchy is the cause... They just can't fathom that things are more complex than one gender being so dominant and rape crazed that they can't help but carry their slanted sexist views over into every part of society.... That sounds fucking sexist to me, sorry.
Why can't woman and men both be responsible for the way things work? Feminism insists we can't have caused this whole thing together, and that males dominate everything, yet it is the female who is fully in control of the most powerful force on the planet: Procreation. Survival of the species would dictate that since a Man doesn't carry a child he should protect the family unit to best affect the passing of his genes. It was in the woman's interest to have men be more competitive and powerful to protect her. This is not some conspiracy. Nor must we be tied to our evolutionary paths that have caused many of the gender roles to develop. Demonizing a bogey man of all men: Patriarchy -- A hierarchy of Sexist
Men, but not women. Blaming male nature for all womankind's problems, and playing the victim card is just, well. Dumb to me. We are all genetically predisposed to rush to a woman's aid if she needs help. Men are protectors. We were once celebrated for this trait, it is built in us. You can label it what you want, but it's genetics and evolution, not oppressive Chivalry or Patriarchy. We assume a woman is vulnerable and in need of protection if she cries out; We do not stop to think; Men and women without child will gladly sacrifice our lives for a "Damsel in Distress"; We do not question the instinct. Feminism speaks out against this "victimization", and when the Females cry out that they have been harmed by the Patriarchy.... Guess what? We rush to their aide... We do not question. YOU do not question.
Feminism leverages their so-called Patriarchy to get everything they want while simultaneously demonizing the deep seated system that gears us to do so. Equal rights supporters would be focused not on demonizing the tropes in video games, not in guilting us for our instinct, not mixing in irrelevant unsubstantiated unproven Feminist Rhetoric to scare us about the false danger of men objectifying women with games -- One who seeks to solve a problem would be proactive. Can't unmake the game, so: Tell women how to make games, or how to organize a game making group via kickstarter... Folks would get behind your cause to bring more women's stories to games (yours will be much better than mine). But -- if women start making games for women, I guess you can't demonize the medium as much anymore? Shit, at least one damn link to some gamedev resources [http://forums.tigsource.com/] to get more girls making games would have been nice, eh, Anita? I make games. I post detailed tutorials about the mechanics including source code and live examples so that all may learn how, even women. Why not advocate more women be in games, and focus on that? I'm not saying we shouldn't analyze games and sexism therein.... However, Feminism has no place in my games. My understanding of feminism is that it focuses on the perceived problems far too much and actual solutions far too little.
While there are certainly a few misandrists (sp?) within the feminist community, these people are considered radicals by most people. The idea, at least in my opinion as I could just as easily be wrong in my opinion, of feminism is to add more examples of female non-sexualized heroes over decreasing female stereotypes.
So, if I'm not for Feminism, I'm against putting more female protagonists in my games? That's wrong thinking. Stop doing it. You can think better than this. I do want more female protagonists in my games, yet I am not for feminism in the least. Not the mild version or the radical version. I don't have to believe in the Gay Hating Christian Bible or the cherry picked toned down and more acceptable Christian faith -- I can just be Good on my own terms.
Think. Who has told you about Feminism? Where did your information come from about it? Is this an unbiased source? Could there be movements in societies that aim to place one subset of culture above another yet proclaim differently? Could the KKK be lying about only wanting more rights for whites? Could Feminists be lying about only wanting more rights for women? Could you be dismissing the radical feminists wrongly -- They being the true goal, the ultimate outcome of this blaming men for everything, and the more digestible variations being recruitment? These are questions I have.
GODWIN! I invoke thee to shed your Godly and Winning light upon us!
Remember how Hitler blamed the Jews for everything, then sought to systematically perpetrate Genocide. How could anyone wind up running a death camp and killing all the Jews? It was an easy indoctrination, the Germans were looking for someone to blame, that's the inroad you need. How could a Feminist seek to eliminate males [http://youtu.be/jvEJfN-jiS4?t=38s] from the population? (And, are they fucking daft?) Well, if you start by just blaming evil male hierarchy, then scream Patriarchy and Trigger Warning and drum up enough fear about Rape! RAPE! Rape is Everywhere! Every man inherently wants to RAPE YOUR ASS! Then it seems you're well on your way there: Castrate The Fuckers! If it's male, Abort It! It'll just grow up to be a RAPIST!
Let's see... Encourage only men to die in wars, get circumcisions so that it's more acceptable to harm male babies than female babies, and turn a blind eye to male victims of violence and rape and homelessness, don't fix any issues, just keep pointing them out and leveling outrage.... Suddenly it's pretty FUCKING clear. If Patriarchy isn't seen as just a damn easy to believe ruse, then you need to stop and think. Where is the EVIDENCE for their hypothesis? Check the source of any proof they provide. You don't believe the KKK about the inherent threat of Blacks? Why would you believe FEMINIST research about the THREAT of MALES?! The Patriarchy Myth has led many feminists down the same damn path time and again. Perhaps that's the logical conclusion given the initial presumption: Males are inherently evil, so let's get rid of those evil fucks.
I put forth that dismissing folks like me, who are not for feminism, out of hand as being silly and misunderstanding reflects poorly on yourself. People like me tire of these dumb debates that derail into irrelevancies. They assume the core of the argument is true: That Feminism is Good, without any damn proof. Please think for yourself. Stop spouting drivel about "losing faith in humanity". You're clearly ignorant yourself, yet you claim I am the fool. You're basically running around spreading comfortable hate speach like a propagandizing machine, and so does this fucking site. They don't mean to, they're ignorant. Much the way a small child raised by the KKK might say, "I can't stand folks who don't want more white pride in video games. Pride is good for everyone, and all blacks should try to be more white anyway." -- That's what you sound like to me.
To be perfectly clear: Just because you believe in gender equality does not make you a Feminist. "Feminism". Think about that word. What does it mean 'to Feminize', and what would 'Feminizing Society' entail? It's not a gender neutral term, is it? It's just a made up word. Like, Nazism, or Pastafarianism, or White Power. Why not just adopt another one, one that worked to free the slaves? Equality. I've known several LGBT teens that were startled to find the bible they were raised believing said they were evil. I used to be a Christian, until I studied the bible and found that at least 3 different folks wrote the Torah, and back then it used to be a polytheistic religion... I used to think Feminism was good too, until I studied it.
Last Edit:
If you still have any doubts, that radical feminist goes on to give her well reasoned Patriarchal Theory of why men should be systematically extinguished from society.
http://youtu.be/toSGrot67CM?t=24s
All her figures are outright wrong, or very misleading. Majority of sexual violence? Hmm: 41% vs 49%... Yup, Majority. Kill all the men, they're all to blame. She's too unquestioning to do any of her own research, and just believes what all the other Feminists are saying -- Just like the Hitler Youth did about the "Evil Jew"... Yes, I'm dead pan serious.
This is what's called a "slippery slope". Her views are all on par with the non-radical feminist, even quoting the same exact figures and statistics "mainstream" feminism does. She's just made the "only logical conclusion", slid down the slope, and decided all men must die for the good of manki--er, Womankind.
Now, re-watch Anita's videos and notice the guilt trip followed by jumping to sexist conclusions without requiring any evidence, just quoting her feminist Patriarchy propaganda manual (she's well rehearsed, even saying the EXACT same things word for word in a few videos). Cue the avoidance damage control, dismissal, and backtracking, and disavowal of all responsibility by all Feminists for any of their bullshit. Oh, yeah, Anita's using the donations to make a curriculum for kids and gamedevs to use. Yeah. Indoctrination is not a joke. Scary shit? Not so innocuous sounding?
P.S. I don't care if the word "Patriarchy" used to mean something before it was appropriated by manipulative Feminists. It might have meant something like Male headed household, or Soon to be Divorced Family, but the way Feminists use it in their literature disparages boys, men, and fathers -- half the planet. When you use the term it's like casually mentioning "Worthless Evil Jew", like it's nothing. Systemic use of the term can get you labeled as a bigoted sexist, even if you're not. The little KKKid doesn't know "******" hurts black folks' feelings. I know this. I won't hold it against you. I don't give two fucks about being Politically Correct, just thought you should know you're adding legitimacy to some seriously heinous shit.
