The other side of "Girls only date jerks"

[LittleThestral]

To literally everyone who says "women are attracted to confidence, not to assholes", or "nice guys are doormats", or anything of that nature, I have this to say:

Bull. Fucking. Shit.

I'm confident. I'm funny. If I'm trying to attract women, I'll definitely put effort into my appearance. The only piece of the puzzle that's missing here is that I'm not an asshole. And guess what? I'm batting .000 with the ladies.

Maybe you're funny only to yourself? XD Where, though, are you trying to attract women? Like, where's your go-to place for looking for a sex partner/girlfriend/potential SO? 'cause from what I understand, places like bars and clubs are really terrible to pick anyone up if you're not an overly aggressive jagoff. I can't speak for the accuracy of that, I've never been to either venue, but I do hear it a lot.

I pick my chicks up on the internet. Chicks dig dorks. 8D

 

[DevilWithaHalo]

If this keeps up, people are going to start thinking I'm a dick for the sole purpose of getting chicks. I don't want people to think that; there are many other reasons to be a dick. Not every dick is after pussy.

/themoreyouknow

 

[LittleThestral]

Okay, I think I see your point more clearly. You're saying that omission of ANY KIND, whether it's to be purposefully deceptive or to postpone telling truth, is a lie. Period. Full stop. Which is bullshit, black-and-white thinking.

Honesty does not have to be brutal and mean. Honesty is just honesty. Brutality or kindness comes from how you tell the truth. You don't have to lie to be kind, and you DON'T have to give full disclosure up-front to tell the truth.

I don't know how else to put it. I think you're drawing the line between "truth" and "lie" way too close to the truth side by saying that if someone's not brutal and stating every single thing that they think of the topic at hand, then they're telling a white or grey lie.

 

[Johnny Impact]

That is the funniest thing I've seen all week.

That's also why I don't work out or dress flashy. I am an asshole -- I say that absolutely and without reservation -- but I am not, and could never be, the right kind of asshole.

 

[Something Amyss]

You don't half labour these replies.

Apparently, you do.

What do you mean an honest approach?

Not putting someone in a no-win scenario.

I'm not saying she'd have to use my exact phrasing. But if she's not telling him what she really thinks with relevance to the situation (which let's be honest, in a situation like this is likely.) then she's omitting.

Let's be honest, you don't know the mindset of Thestrals gf. You're assuming out of convenience and accusing her of lying.

Also saying 'everything is going to be okay' is a golden example of the kind of lie I'm talking about. She has no idea that everything is going to be okay. She's telling LT that because he needed to hear it.

And again, you're assuming motives you don't know and labeling the end result as a lie because ponies.

What, you don't consider phatic speech a form of lying? It's intentional insincerity in non-formal communication for the purpose of fitting in.

No, but you knew that from the rest of my response. At least, as long as your comprehension skills function.

I was being a bit hyperbolic when I said an entire breakdown of a morning. It was meant to be a bit of levity. Not to be taken literally.

Sorry, but you're arguing something very literally. Hard to parse a single 'joke' from what seems to be an earnest, if incorrect argument. The point remains.

What I'm saying is if you're passing someone and you ask "you alright" and their response is to say "no" and then give some sort of explanation as to why, then you're going to feel uncomfortable.

Again, not necessarily. A huge chunk of my statement you keep ignoring.

There are times when you ask that question to someone genuinely, usually if they don't look alright. But that's clearly not what I'm talking about or I wouldn't have brought up phatic utterances.

Except you're bringing them up in a context where such an absolute stance is irrelevant. Actually, there was no point at all to bringing it up unless you wanted to apply it to the conversation at hand. Are you saying that you understand social context but dishonestly brought it up as a distraction?

A lie is any deliberate concealment of the truth. No matter how great or small.

Then you DO think that not saying "left foot, right foot, left, right, left, right" is a lie?

Oh, turns out I did edit it.

Yup. But the original line was far more truthful of you.

Kinda is.

Kinda? Well there you go, obviously lying.

You're either being honest or you're lying.

Except that's not the issue I was talking about. Your lines are absurd, not the concept that there is only truth and lies.

But telling him everything is going to be okay without precognition certainly falls into the acceptable lie category.

So a good faith statement is a lie. Gotcha.

You either lie or you don't.

Yes, now try addressing the part I'm actually contesting.

Not telling someone what you think to spare their feelings.

Nope.... sounds like honesty to me.

Now address what he ACTUALLY said.

Yea, if the thing you're being honest about is nice.

So the prior statements you made about the truth being a brutal thing were lies?

If you're not saying everything relevant, you're not being honest.

Oh, you changed your definition again.

 

[Something Amyss]

not all women are the same.

BLASPHEMY! Burn the witch! Fetch the leeches to bleed her sin away before she infects the young'uns!

Seriously, though, it depresses me to think that people can broad brush any group.

Even moreso if it's based on "well, I can't get a date and my only flaw is not being an asshole."

Sounds like a "humble brag" even.

 

[Calibanbutcher]

not all women are the same.

BLASPHEMY! Burn the witch! Fetch the leeches to bleed her sin away before she infects the young'uns!

Seriously, though, it depresses me to think that people can broad brush any group.

Even moreso if it's based on "well, I can't get a date and my only flaw is not being an asshole."

Sounds like a "humble brag" even.

Well, I can not get a date, because I simply have no time left between curing cancer, sparring with the Klitschko's and brainstorming with Stephen Hawking, I barely have time to shred out awesome guitar solos and cook gourmet menus, so how would I ever find a woman?
I mean, maybe I could make some time by not volunteering at the lonely-puppy-and-kitten-shelter anymore and I guess the orphanage is quite time-consuming as well.


On topic:
I do not even for a second believe that all women and girls ever exclusively date jerks.

 

[Ryotknife]

not all women are the same.

BLASPHEMY! Burn the witch! Fetch the leeches to bleed her sin away before she infects the young'uns!

Seriously, though, it depresses me to think that people can broad brush any group.

Even moreso if it's based on "well, I can't get a date and my only flaw is not being an asshole."

Sounds like a "humble brag" even.

because people like to insert order even in things that are chaotic? Sure, this will never be accurate, but the alternative is a hell of a lot more work. Human beings are chaotic MF'ers, that still does not stop a good majority of the people around the world from puttings people in nice neat little groups.

 

[Cheesepower5]

The best way to attract women is to do 90% of all the things you did.

1. Care about yourself is a huge one. When a guy says "I dont really care too much about my appearance" to seem humble thats already a shot in the foot. In general being humble doesnt score any points because being humble in that regard is easy. All it is is not caring anymore. You deserve to care about yourself and how you look. So do it. If a girl sees you care about yourself its a good indicator you have effort to care about something else as well. Obviously dont take this overboard.

2. Walk and act like you matter. Being nice and friendly doesnt mean letting everyone else talk. It means you say "Im an interesting and nice person, it isnt enough to just say these things to myself i have to SHARE them with others for it to mean anything". So be confident and be nice and interesting. Share your stories loudly if they are funny and laugh with everyone else. Dont be afraid to laugh at yourself sometimes but dont depreciate yourself too much to make it seem like you dont value yourself. The main thing that not acting confidently says is "I dont think i matter". And if people see YOU dont think you matter why would they? People take a lot of their judgement on you based on how they see you perceive and treat yourself. Not all but more than you would think.

3. Talk to everyone who shows interest in knowing about you. People are subjective. If you use ANY "Technique" or show ANY personality trait youve INSTANTLY lost about 20% of people right away just because of peoples tastes. Thats perfectly fine but its easier to decide youre a failure with a much smaller "target audience". If you stop being shy about talking and engage with everyone you can youve already started to jump over this by covering a wider base. The OP found his douche tactic worked because, although it turned off a good 50% of women, he talked to so many people so easily it seemed like a success.

4. Be energetic and fun. Being eager to do things is a gigantic plus. Youre young (probably). This is the time for living. Its a VERY attractive trait in people at this age to be eager and outgoing and brimming with energy. ALWAYS call mike on rockband. Go skydiving. Do things that you know if other people did you would say "THATS SO COOL!". Thats attractive already because relationships are about sharing. If youre fun already then people WANT you to share that with them so they can enjoy that fun part of your life as well. People dont want to take the promise of "Ill be fun AFTER we start dating".

The backhanded insults just arnt necessary as long as you do these four things. The most important fact to remember is this. Youre out there looking to SHARE yourself. And in return youre going to get part of the life of someone else. Think clearly on what your would love to receive, the most awesome life to become part of. One thats insane, fun, exciting and would remember forever. Then do your best to be able to offer that to someone else. You can expect to go out looking for a "trade" offering nothing or something meager and win except in circumstances where the person is tailor made for you. Offer something amazing! Make it a privilege to become part of your life. To share in the things you do. Make it attractive. If you love your life and you show it people will want to become part of it. If you hate it and try and "fix it" by latching onto someone else thats almost parasitic. Avoid it. You have to enjoy yourself before someone else can. Thats the most i can offer.

No offense to you, dude, I know you're just trying to be helpful and all. I'm so sick of reading these run-of-the-mill dating tips about "having confidence!" and "being dynamic!" That's not it. Not it at all. It's not about confidence, I know lots of excessively confident people who can't find dates because of the most minute of details. It's basically a match of "who can meet society's dumb-ass standards the best." Don't try and make it sound like some virtuous game of winning some pedestal-mounted prize only worthy of a true champion. It's fucking not. It's just silly, chest-beating competition between a bunch of primates. The sooner we all realise that the sooner we can just simplify it a damn bit.

Once again, sorry. I just can't stand this particular bit of pop-sociology... If that's a real term.

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

No offense to you, dude, I know you're just trying to be helpful and all. I'm so sick of reading these run-of-the-mill dating tips about "having confidence!" and "being dynamic!" That's not it. Not it at all. It's not about confidence, I know lots of excessively confident people who can't find dates because of the most minute of details. It's basically a match of "who can meet society's dumb-ass standards the best." Don't try and make it sound like some virtuous game of winning some pedestal-mounted prize only worthy of a true champion. It's fucking not. It's just silly, chest-beating competition between a bunch of primates. The sooner we all realise that the sooner we can just simplify it a damn bit.

Once again, sorry. I just can't stand this particular bit of pop-sociology... If that's a real term.

Guess when i tried being interesting and confident i was just secretly 50 pounds heavier than i really am with muscle and secretly a douche to the people i like and my girlfriend fell for my ploy. Damn. After all my glasses and my interests in things like computing must have made me come accross like a reaaaaal jock along with my inability to beat people up and demean them. It isnt a prize. Thats a hideous notion. Its finding someone right for you. Thats a difficult thing to do because as you said you can fail the most minute things and be not right for someone else. But these tips arnt meant to match you up with the right person. They are meant to maximize the amount of people you talk to and the amount of people likely to want to get to know you better. Thats when you get to know someone better and find out if their nuanced personality, based on upwards of 18 years of experiences, is compatable with yours. Which sometimes its not.

The idea of "simplifying that" and getting anything even remotely meaningful out of it is beyond hilarious and i struggle to take the notion seriously. In fact i dont. Sorry. People are complicated things. Anything that reacts to 18 years of stimuli is going to be a little complicated just because theres so much difference in my 18 years than anyone elses 18 years and that makes me a different person. Also the notion that "Its fitting societies standards" is just patently false. Weird and varied people get dates a lot. Honestly. Go to the school yard and see the parents when the come to collect them. Married the lot of them probably. Reckon EVERY SINGLE ONE was a "jock"? Obviously not. So that idea is obviously total bullshit. If you were right only a single type of person would get dates often. And thats just obviously untrue. Just LOOK at couples everywhere and you see almost every type of person can find a match.

Im just saying all the guys who say things like you just said fail miserably at dating from my experience. Not saying anything about you, just ALL the friends i know who are going on about how arbitrary and broken the dating system is seem to fail to realize that they are talking about interacting with another human being. It isnt a system. Or a contest. Its fucking getting to know another person. My tips are made to make getting to know someone easier. Excessive confidence alone means nothing. I cant give advice to totally reshape a personality that took 18 years to form. The best i can do is give tips to increase the amount of opportunities you have to show it to other people and hopefully find someone who likes it enough to date you.

I understand being all cynical and shit but honestly who wants to talk to a cynic at parties? People totally fail societies dumbass standards all the time and get into relationships. They just found compatible people. My tips are designed to increase the amount of people who want to talk to you and therefor find someone compatible. Its possible to find a compatible person for you if youre a totally boring introvert hiding a heart of gold. Not saying thats easy though.

 

[Something Amyss]

I half labour them? Possibly.

No question.

Your partner asking you whether or not they look good when they're not at their best isn't a no win scenario.

If your only options are lie to placate or tell the truth and piss them off, it's a no-win. One can be assuring and honest, but not in that environment.

Let's be really honest, Thestral said his girlfriend told him what she thought at a 'more appropriate time.'

And had voiced it before, too. I'm curious as to what benefit there would have been to saying it at the time, as well. It sounds like you WANT her to dickishly rub it in, despite the statement having been voiced and being less than relevant to the situation at hand.

Except that she couldn't possibly have know everything was going to be okay, ponies or no ponies.

Which doesn't change the fact that you're assuming motives because it's convenient to argue them.

Also who the fuck cares about ponies?

Would you prefer poodles?

The point remains that one does not have to be precognitive to make the claim, nor do you have any real insight into his girlfriend's mindset. After all, you are not telekinetic.

Then you don't believe in phatic speech, put simply.

Put simply? False. Your inability to parse speech is as telling as someone who cannot grasp phatic speech.

So many people on this site don't seem to get my informal or jokier speech. This either means I've got a really odd form of informal speech that may be a little too sarcastic and is hard to read. Or people are being intentionally awkward.

I honestly don't know which one.

Here's a hint: You have taken things exceptionally literally in almost every instance. The tone for your posts is therefore a very literal one. Then you say "That wasn't meant to be taken literally." Well, when your entire tone is a very literal one, people are going to miss the non-literal one.

And you're ignoring a chunk of mine here, even if you do address it next.

I'm not ignoring it. You're trying to shoehorn relevance.

Then again, another qualifier.

"With relevance to the subject."

We've been here before, though. Why are you only changing it now?

But not as funny.

Depends on which side of the convo you're on.

Kinda is.

But is it a great or small lie?

doesn't matter.

The line being that if you're withholding pertinent information you're lying?

Which, again, is a redefinition.

Does she know everything is going to be okay? Not does she think this, does she know it? If not then she is lying when she says it will.

Way to dodge things, but no, one does not need to be able to see the future to say in good faith that things will be okay. It's still an honest assessment.

Just to be clear, I'm the one who's saying these types of lies are a good thing.

Yes, and the problem is mislabeling them lies.

The other parts that aren't this quote already are doing.

Except when they don't.

See above. You seem to cut out the parts that have actual relevance to what you're saying.

You were quoted verbatim there. The only part "cut out" was Thestral's statement, done to keep an already long post from getting longer. You didn't address what LT asked.

This is that thing again where I'm not sure if people really didn't get what I was saying or if they're just being awkward because it's easy to be on the net.

Or you're just poor at making a point. That's sort of like option 1, but not quite.

Can we only have one way of describing things now? I had brought up the relevance thing way before in this post. Assumed it went without saying really, but then you brought up the whole 'describe your breathing' shit.

You keep bringing up absolute statements, then complain that I don't contextually understand that you don't mean every case. I even tried to nail you down on this. I restate my hypothesis: you're the one not communicating well.

and more to the point: truth is truth. It is not good, it is not bad. Truth is only brutal if you decide to be brutal with it.

 

[Something Amyss]

On topic:
I do not even for a second believe that all women and girls ever exclusively date jerks.

XD to your post. Also, I'm glad at least some people like to stay somewhat grounded.

Exactly! There are so many factors. What I've noticed is, a lot of people only focus on the ones that are relevant to them. What about the other person? What if they already like someone? Bad experiences with their ex? Not looking? Long Distance relationship? Keeping their current relationship secret? People get rejected for a lot of different reasons that are not always on the outside and, more importantly, not always relevant to them as a person. It can be on the person you asked out's end too. :3

It's almost like women are people or....Something.

You know, possessed of depth of character and nuances that might mean they themselves are more than a single personality simply because they have boobs. But what kind of craziness am I talking?

There's also the issues relevant to the person. People who say "I'm funny and sweet" don't see themselves as others do. Maybe that humour doesn't translate well outside your own head. Maybe your "sweetness" comes off as backhanded or smothering. Maybe your confidence comes off as jerky. Or, as you've pointed out, maybe they're seeing someone or not looking.

But the main point I'd make is "maybe you're not as awesome as you think you are."

I can't remember the name of that whole effect where people tend to overestimate their abilities, but that's what I think when people are like, "I'm smart, funny and confident! Why don't wimmenz like me?"

I mean, I'm not saying these people are complete losers, but I do wonder how they are perceived by others. Specifically, the others who won't date them.

because people like to insert order even in things that are chaotic? Sure, this will never be accurate, but the alternative is a hell of a lot more work. Human beings are chaotic MF'ers, that still does not stop a good majority of the people around the world from puttings people in nice neat little groups.

To be fair, this derives from a survival mechanism and was very necessary in our past. Discerning what was dangerous and what wasn't was pretty valuable when we were still trying to figure out what shape the wheel should be. I'm not sure it's a need to assert order over chaos so much as it is a vestigial need to type things to protect ourselves. The same can actually be said of racism, though I'm not endorsing racism as good.