The Ouya Scam

[gavinmcinns]

Ok, everyone who is thinking that the title is "provocative", give me a minute.

I want you to go to Ouya's kickstarter page and go to the comments section (im sure everyone here is internet-navigationable.) You can have the damnation out of the mouths of the backers themselves, you don't need it from a smart person like me.

Now I want to start a discussion of the media hype surrounding the ouya on "journalist" sites, not excluding the one I'm posting this topic on. I saw nothing but caramelized rectum kisses for Julie Uhrman and her posse when the project began, and even now.

I don't see any major gaming median outlets warning people about this obvious scam. When backers are still without product as of August 22, 2013, when the retailers received theirs in June, that is a sure sign of a scam the same way a 460 lb isosceles triangle of ice wedged between your ilium and pubis is a sure sign you will be paralyzed from the waist down.

 

[Caiphus]

Just went to the comments section. Looks like people be mad.

My immediate reaction was that it's kickstarter. It's a form of crowdfunding, and there are no guarantees that the product in which you are investing won't go belly up. That's just how it works.

With that in mind, should the backers have been given the consoles before the retailers? Ideally. And it looks like a fair number of them have, judging by the comments. But if getting consoles to all backers was going to break the bank, what do you expect OUYA to do? Ship the console, go bankrupt and leave the backers with a shiny paperweight?

In any case, they did a lot better than I expected when they started the kickstarter last year, or whenever. I fully expected the whole thing to fail horribly in a fire.

Now, if the OUYA employees have been misappropriating funds, then that would absolutely be a scam. The comments section doesn't seem to show any evidence of this however. If you find me a link of the OUYA creators all sipping cocktails in the Bahamas then I would be more sympathetic.

So yeah. Incompetent, perhaps. I don't think it's a scam.

 

[WoW Killer]

So they ran in to some financial trouble. They could have spent that little money they had to give all the backers a console and leave nothing left. Or they could put some products into the stores so they can get some revenue, and then give the backers their dues once they were on a stable footing. Unless, as above, there was some kind of money being leeched off to another product or pocket behind the scenes, then it's not a scam. Backing something on Kickstarter isn't a loan. You're not guaranteed any money back by any date, even if there was an actual timeline given.

But if you're wanting your money back, I'm sure a good old fashioned witch hunt will make a wad of cash materialise somehow.

 

[gavinmcinns]

Just went to the comments section. Looks like people be mad.

My immediate reaction was that it's kickstarter. It's a form of crowdfunding, and there are no guarantees that the product in which you are investing won't go belly up. That's just how it works.

With that in mind, should the backers have been given the consoles before the retailers? Ideally. And it looks like a fair number of them have, judging by the comments. But if getting consoles to all backers was going to break the bank, what do you expect OUYA to do? Ship the console, go bankrupt and leave the backers with a shiny paperweight?

In any case, they did a lot better than I expected when they started the kickstarter last year, or whenever. I fully expected the whole thing to fail horribly in a fire.

Now, if the OUYA employees have been misappropriating funds, then that would absolutely be a scam. The comments section doesn't seem to show any evidence of this however. If you find me a link of the OUYA creators all sipping cocktails in the Bahamas then I would be more sympathetic.

So yeah. Incompetent, perhaps. I don't think it's a scam.

Thats a fair main point you have there..

Ouya may be more of a failure of mass incompetence.. and if that was the only factor in this shit pie then it would just be sad and then I would be able to ignore it and move on. But that fact that gaming media is what propelled this shit pie ouya into the stratosphere (8.5mm usd$ raised) cannot go unrecognized.

It is my understanding that former IGN staff members held key positions in the company. It is beyond skepticism at this point. The fact the THE ESCAPIST and other gaming "journalism" outlets fail to get on OUYA'S case about the 3 month+ delay of shipment, not to mention the faulty product... it's just unacceptable.

 

[gavinmcinns]

So they ran in to some financial trouble. They could have spent that little money they had to give all the backers a console and leave nothing left. Or they could put some products into the stores so they can get some revenue, and then give the backers their dues once they were on a stable footing. Unless, as above, there was some kind of money being leeched off to another product or pocket behind the scenes, then it's not a scam. Backing something on Kickstarter isn't a loan. You're not guaranteed any money back by any date, even if there was an actual timeline given.

But if you're wanting your money back, I'm sure a good old fashioned witch hunt will make a wad of cash materialise somehow.

OUYA raised 8.5mm usd, then they went out and found another 12mm usd from v. capitalists (that includes nvidia).. they are not short on capital. I just want to know why the media (including escapist) were so shortsighted in this.. ill-advised creation.... it is beyond obvious that this thing was going to crash and burn... it was using the tegra 3 chipset which phones from 2011 touted as ageing tech... its like mainstream gaming media saw this shit pie hurtling toward their face with a TMT and proclaimed " FREE BJ'S." Notg=hing about this sits right with me.

 

[Caiphus]

Thats a fair main point you have there..

Ouya may be more of a failure of mass incompetence.. and if that was the only factor in this shit pie then it would just be sad and then I would be able to ignore it and move on. But that fact that gaming media is what propelled this shit pie ouya into the stratosphere (8.5mm usd$ raised) cannot go unrecognized.

It is my understanding that former IGN staff members held key positions in the company. It is beyond skepticism at this point. The fact the THE ESCAPIST and other gaming "journalism" outlets fail to get on OUYA'S case about the 3 month+ delay of shipment, not to mention the faulty product... it's just unacceptable.

Hmmm. You could be right that the media should try and get some answers out of the Ouya people.

But going back to the incompetence problem, I would be more annoyed if the Ouya creators haven't made announcements/apologies to their backers. For two reasons:

First, if the Ouya creators don't say anything, there's not much for the media to report. Aside from the occasional headline "Some Ouya backers still don't have consoles. Many angry." there's not a lot to write. Investigative journalism should play a part? Maybe. That doesn't reeeeally happen in this industry. And maybe that's a fault: that journalists just absorb PR and give it to the rest of us, but there we go. I don't know if I blame them, most of the big players in the industry are tight lipped at the best of times, and silent at the worst.

Second: The backers are investors, really. Like I said earlier, they are investors and need to accept that there is no guarantee that they will see a return on their investment. But they also deserve to receive communication. And maybe they have? But it sounds like, from your posts, that they haven't. In the comments section, it looks like a lot of people are just waiting for their box to ship with no idea when it is going to arrive, or why it is delayed.

 

[Windcaler]

So they ran in to some financial trouble. They could have spent that little money they had to give all the backers a console and leave nothing left. Or they could put some products into the stores so they can get some revenue, and then give the backers their dues once they were on a stable footing. Unless, as above, there was some kind of money being leeched off to another product or pocket behind the scenes, then it's not a scam. Backing something on Kickstarter isn't a loan. You're not guaranteed any money back by any date, even if there was an actual timeline given.

But if you're wanting your money back, I'm sure a good old fashioned witch hunt will make a wad of cash materialise somehow.

OUYA raised 8.5mm usd, then they went out and found another 12mm usd from v. capitalists (that includes nvidia).. they are not short on capital. I just want to know why the media (including escapist) were so shortsighted in this.. ill-advised creation.... it is beyond obvious that this thing was going to crash and burn... it was using the tegra 3 chipset which phones from 2011 touted as ageing tech... its like mainstream gaming media saw this shit pie hurtling toward their face with a TMT and proclaimed " FREE BJ'S." Notg=hing about this sits right with me.

How do you know they still have money? Building any kind of console costs a ton of capital and many experts have said that the 8.5 million they raised in kickstarter was just a drop in the bucket. They couldnt afford a booth at E3 and ended up setting up in the parking lot for a couple days, that says to me theyre scraping by. If you have detailed knowledge of their accounts then ok, but I suspect theres no evidence to support that claim.

That said, the ouya isnt a scam. I know two people that backed it and both got their consoles within a couple of weeks. Ive heard others havnt but that isnt because ouya just doenst want to give them more. Its because of costs and the shipping company they hired to distribute consoles to backers are doing a crappy job

 

[WoW Killer]

I just want to know why the media (including escapist) were so shortsighted in this.. ill-advised creation.... it is beyond obvious that this thing was going to crash and burn...

There was plenty of negative media both before and after release. Where have you been? There where topics on this very forum about how stupid the concept was, about the name, about the Kickstarter rewards. There was a topic I remember specifically about microtransactions and how the console didn't take enough precautions. There was a topic about some random monkey game and how shit it was.

To be honest, I've heard nothing but negative press.

 

[ShinyCharizard]

I just want to know why the media (including escapist) were so shortsighted in this.. ill-advised creation.... it is beyond obvious that this thing was going to crash and burn...

There was plenty of negative media both before and after release. Where have you been? There where topics on this very forum about how stupid the concept was, about the name, about the Kickstarter rewards. There was a topic I remember specifically about microtransactions and how the console didn't take enough precautions. There was a topic about some random monkey game and how shit it was.

To be honest, I've heard nothing but negative press.

Yes this right here. I've seen nothing but non stop bad press for the Ouya. And rightfully so because it is a piece of shit.

 

[KoudelkaMorgan]

I never thought it was a scam. I simply thought that the idea was completely unsound, that it would get little to no support from any developer that wants to be taken seriously, and that the actual hardware was already crap several years before its distribution.

But I always thought that the people behind it were simply foolish, not evil geniuses. If they were, they certainly could have made a MUCH more compelling product.

 

[Smooth Operator]

I'd say it's a major fuck up but I can't call it a scam for sure.
Because they did explain that their first shipping company put in charge of backer packages screwed up completely and has no clue where their shit is or where it's going... or so they say, probably wouldn't hurt to have some authority figures investigate this.

 

[SonicWaffle]

How do you know they still have money? Building any kind of console costs a ton of capital and many experts have said that the 8.5 million they raised in kickstarter was just a drop in the bucket. They couldnt afford a booth at E3 and ended up setting up in the parking lot for a couple days, that says to me theyre scraping by. If you have detailed knowledge of their accounts then ok, but I suspect theres no evidence to support that claim.

Do you even know how expensive hardware is?

very. On a level were 30 million is basic requirement. basic console. 20 million is jusst sshort of the 30 for an incredibly archiac console.

There was plenty of negative media both before and after release. Where have you been? There where topics on this very forum about how stupid the concept was, about the name, about the Kickstarter rewards. There was a topic I remember specifically about microtransactions and how the console didn't take enough precautions. There was a topic about some random monkey game and how shit it was.

Hate to say it chums, but I get the feeling you're wasting your time here. So far OP's point is coming across as "RAAAARGH OUYA IS THE WORST IDEA EVER AND DAYLIGHT ROBBERY AND IT HAD SEX WITH MY GRANDMOTHER'S PET GOAT", to the extent that throwing around facts and understanding probably aren't even going to make a dent in that wall of rage.

When you've got an axe you really, really want to grind then it doesn't matter how many people tell you what you're actually doing is slapping a wet noodle against a horse, you just ignore them and keep trying to grind it.

 

[Lono Shrugged]

There is a difference between bad business practice and a scam.

My problem with Kickstarter is that there are few solid business people working them. It's an artistic venue primarily. "Give me money and I will make you something nice" They work out the figures I am sure, but they really need a risk analyst to point out all this stuff. (What will you do if your factory exploded) It will be one of the main reasons for when the kickstarter bubble will burst (and it will)

A scam is them keeping the money for themselves and not delivering the product at all. Being paid to work on a failed project is not a scam. It's fucking heartbreaking. I am willing to be the Ouya people are working their nuts off and destroying personal relationships in trying to get this thing out to everyone who paid up. It's a shame that it's been such a badly managed fiasco. They wanted a success, we wanted a cool new toy. No one is winning here.

it doesn't matter how many people tell you what you're actually doing is slapping a wet noodle against a horse, you just ignore them and keep trying to grind it.

I am stealing this...

 

[Dragonbums]

It has been stated already that those Ouya's were supposed to be going to the backers on time.
Unfortunately they got into the hands of a very shitty shipping company that for all intents and purposes dicked around with the product, and not actually shipping them long after they were supposed to get them.

It sucks for both parties.

One, Ouya can't keep their promise due to something outside of their control, and

Two, customers didn't get their promised stuff that they put money into.

 

[Yopaz]

Hate to say it chums, but I get the feeling you're wasting your time here. So far OP's point is coming across as "RAAAARGH OUYA IS THE WORST IDEA EVER AND DAYLIGHT ROBBERY AND IT HAD SEX WITH MY GRANDMOTHER'S PET GOAT", to the extent that throwing around facts and understanding probably aren't even going to make a dent in that wall of rage.

When you've got an axe you really, really want to grind then it doesn't matter how many people tell you what you're actually doing is slapping a wet noodle against a horse, you just ignore them and keep trying to grind it.

Joined: 23:08:2013.

Basically he made an account here just to rant about it. I think we can safely assume that his account was created simply to rage about it.

I don't have enough information to determine if this is a scam or if they simply haven't been able to live up to expectations so far. However the golden rule of all Kickstarter is that you should not treat it as a store. This was said by the founder of Kickstarter. It's a risky situation and sometimes the projects are unable to deliver on it. I don't think this is a downright scam, but I think they got in over their head at some point.

 

[gavinmcinns]

snip
Hmmm. You could be right that the media should try and get some answers out of the Ouya people.

But going back to the incompetence problem, I would be more annoyed if the Ouya creators haven't made announcements/apologies to their backers. For two reasons:

First, if the Ouya creators don't say anything, there's not much for the media to report. Aside from the occasional headline "Some Ouya backers still don't have consoles. Many angry." there's not a lot to write. Investigative journalism should play a part? Maybe. That doesn't reeeeally happen in this industry. And maybe that's a fault: that journalists just absorb PR and give it to the rest of us, but there we go. I don't know if I blame them, most of the big players in the industry are tight lipped at the best of times, and silent at the worst.

Second: The backers are investors, really. Like I said earlier, they are investors and need to accept that there is no guarantee that they will see a return on their investment. But they also deserve to receive communication. And maybe they have? But it sounds like, from your posts, that they haven't. In the comments section, it looks like a lot of people are just waiting for their box to ship with no idea when it is going to arrive, or why it is delayed.

You're right about expecting investigative journalism, it just ain't gonna happen when the major outlets are all in bed with the marketing departments... in that sense it isn't any different from "real news". Not expecting fairness however does little to calm me down about it though. If the mob cared enough about the issue then I think there would be some accountability, but it seems to me the vast majority are A. apathetic or B. uninformed about the scam.

And here is why I call it a scam and not a risky investment gone awry: The investors don't have a stake in the company. It's one thing for me to invest money in THQ and see them go belly up, paying money up front for promises and fluff is something else entirely. Being an investor means that I have something that I can sell (up until that thing becomes worthless).

I want to see the same websites that promoted this crap last year outraged at the situation, which includes a total lack of communication for the past 3 months (sporadic robo-mail doesn't count). I want the CEO's feet held to the fire on this one, she needs to answer a lot of questions about her unrealistic fantasies.

 

[Kajin]

Ouya... What can I say? It seemed like a neat little idea. And that's what a lot of other people thought. That's why people threw so much money at the kickstarter. They believed it was a neat little idea worthy of being put into development. The only problem is that this was something pretty closely approximating an indie project. A team of individuals with no real business experience or major organizational skills that would have allowed them to handle a project that ended up becoming such a massive undertaking. So yeah, they had something they set out to do but when push came to shove they ended up WAAAAAY out of their depth.

If I must be honest, I kinda feel sorry for the Ouya team. They thought they could handle it, but they ended up biting off more than they could chew with this. Here's to hoping they can smooth things out in the long run and make the Ouya more than the failure it currently turned into.

Unless it really is a scam. Then they can go take a long walk into a volcano.

 

[gavinmcinns]

[quote="Windcaler" post="9.826180.20057622"snip

How do you know they still have money? Building any kind of console costs a ton of capital and many experts have said that the 8.5 million they raised in kickstarter was just a drop in the bucket. They couldnt afford a booth at E3 and ended up setting up in the parking lot for a couple days, that says to me theyre scraping by. If you have detailed knowledge of their accounts then ok, but I suspect theres no evidence to support that claim.

That said, the ouya isnt a scam. I know two people that backed it and both got their consoles within a couple of weeks. Ive heard others havnt but that isnt because ouya just doenst want to give them more. Its because of costs and the shipping company they hired to distribute consoles to backers are doing a crappy job[/quote]

DHL and OUYA are working in tandem to do a crappy job, first of all you are right about 8.5mm being a paltry amount to develop a console, that is why this has been a retarded idea from the beginning. Even with the extra 12, you could multiply that amount several times and it'd still be fantasy.

Even if you got your OUYA, you then have to put up with draconian drm that puts EA and Microsoft to shame. it needs a constant connection to the internet to play single player from my understanding, and a credit card number i might add. No google play store means having to buy your games all over again. And when it comes to the actual mechanics of gaming, have fun playing mario with a 3 second input delay.