The Ouya Scam

[Schadrach]

Ok, everyone who is thinking that the title is "provocative", give me a minute.

I want you to go to Ouya's kickstarter page and go to the comments section (im sure everyone here is internet-navigationable.) You can have the damnation out of the mouths of the backers themselves, you don't need it from a smart person like me.

Now I want to start a discussion of the media hype surrounding the ouya on "journalist" sites, not excluding the one I'm posting this topic on. I saw nothing but caramelized rectum kisses for Julie Uhrman and her posse when the project began, and even now.

I don't see any major gaming median outlets warning people about this obvious scam. When backers are still without product as of August 22, 2013, when the retailers received theirs in June, that is a sure sign of a scam the same way a 460 lb isosceles triangle of ice wedged between your ilium and pubis is a sure sign you will be paralyzed from the waist down.

As someone who has backed a *lot* of Kickstarters, the first thing Kickstarter should tell you (and put it in large friendly letters on the main page) is that "estimated delivery dates" are educated guesses at *best* and quite possibly created by the "charts" from the Margaritaville South Park episode.

That said, they are required by the TOS to meet whatever pledge rewards they promise (which may or may not be dependent on the success of the project), though the estimated delivery date is entirely irrelevant. If they will not or cannot, they are obligated to offer a refund.

As for OUYA specifically, I got mine, but not until shortly after retail launch (I stopped following how shipping was going after that, I'm actually kind of shocked if people still don't have theirs). I probably need to cash in that code for 13.37 if they are still available. Probably all I'll spend on their store for the foreseeable future, though it's a decent retro-gaming emulator box.

Also they shipped through DHL. DHL is the most bullshit for shipping I have ever dealt with, and I've done a fair share of shipping. DHL - Deliveries Handled Later.

Today, the thing is failing, people are angry, and all I can think is: WHAT THE FUCK WERE YOU (backers) EVEN EXPECTING??? What the the fuck were you ever expecting, for that matter? IT'S A SMARTPHONE IN A BOX! IT WAS ALWAYS GOING TO BE JUST A(n outdated) SMARTPHONE IN A BOX!

Anyone who looked at the specs would come to that conclusion. You know what I saw when I looked at it? "HEY THIS WOULD BE PERFECT FOR DOING RETRO GAMING! I BET IT'LL RUN 8-BIT, 16-BIT, AND ARCADE EMULATORS ON A BIG SCREEN WITH REAL CONTROLLERS WHILE BEING TINY AND TRANSPORTABLE!" I was not disappointed, but then my standards apparently weren't as high as some people's. But I was comparing it favorably to Roku rather than trying to compare it to the PS3.

 

[Laughing Man]

It's not a scam though is it, it's an investment and to be fair it is a bloody safe investment sure most traditional investments usually pay off by at least giving you more back than you invested, in this case you invest and you get a new 'fun' gaming console to play on but unlike traditional investments if things go tits up you will at a minimum at least get your cash back.

If you really want to hammer the 'scam' angle try the way the system was original shown to the public. It was marketed as an uber cheap open source console that would attract developers to using Android to create much bigger Android based games than what we have currently come to expect on the smart phone app market and what we ended up getting were either remakes of older classic games, emulation of older games, direct access to a host of android games that already existed on the play market maybe one or two genuinely new half decent titles and a whole load of crap can anyone say that a truly new and original android based triple AAA title has been released or for that matter is even in production for this console? Because that was pretty much the way they marketed the console.

Of course doing it under the Kickstarter banner means that the big shit pie it turned out to be, and I like many predicted it would be at least means that no one can moan or say they were mis lead.

 

[Schadrach]

But I was comparing it favorably to Roku rather than trying to compare it to the PS3.

That's what I was getting at with the despicable "ad" they made, which was just like many of the comments I read when the Kickstarter was making the news. Personally, I don't give a fuck about retro (or any) console gaming whatsoever, but most people weren't making that connection anyway and OUYA's kickstarter sure as shit wasn't... So, many people kept/keep comparing it to current consoles! "It's gonna be so much better than current consoles and call of duty hurrrr! Finally something fresh and original and interesting durrrrr!"

Who is serious about emulating older games that's not already doing it on their PC or doesn't already have a laptop/netbook with HDMI out and a controller? Even for those who do, sure, the OUYA brings convenience at a good price, but it was never made for that. Hell, not only does the kickstarter page not even mention that, it's got "Console Revolution" all over it!
They're just milking that "better than The Man's consoles" angle for all it's worth... They really brought that on themselves.

That's like the review that gave my car a 6/10 primarily because it wasn't as sporty as the body design and advertising might suggest. It's a subcompact hatchback with a comparatively small engine and good gas mileage, and a cursory reading of the car's specs by even someone who doesn't know much about cars could have told you that it's not as sporty as the advertising might suggest. The OUYA is much the same -- they can advertise as hard as they want, and people who didn't give the specs even a cursory glance can be as ignorant of what it is as they'd like -- it doesn't make it any better or worse compared to other things that are actually in it's class. When you start looking at consoles around the $100 mark, what do you see? Roku.

Complaining that advertising for a thing and people ignorant of what that thing is make it sound better than it really is is frankly kind of silly.

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

And why, oh why would you ever want that?

I don't proclaim to know any of that, I just know it is a hell of a lot more than 20.5 mm to develop a legitimate console. What doesn't take a lot to develop for is a plastic box with a wifi reciever and an old phone gpu. You say it isn't just a generic gpu, but I don't really see what you mean beyond the (very) basic interface. Not to mention the interface places all kinds of restrictions on you, intended (DRM, touted as an OPEN platform mind you) and unintended (buggy controls, freezes etc..)[/quote] Just because the chunk of silicon doing the grunt work exists doesn't mean the job of designing the thing is finished. You still have to design the board that hosts it all - a task that includes various and sundry considerations. Once you have it designed, you also have to pay for all of these parts to be assembled. It isn't as though the Ouya just existed in ready state on a shelf somewhere waiting to be put into that silly box.

How do i know they have money? They just started a 1mm developer "fund", presumably in escrow. The product is crap jim, and to be honest I wouldn't be able to tell if it was a $10mm turd or a $20.5mm turd. And that is the whole point, there is no transparency so we don't know for sure if this was all a semi-elaborate scam cooked up to squeeze money out of gullible people on the internet, or if the leadership over there are victims of their own childish naivete. I'm gonna go with scam.

So you openly admit you don't know if they have money or how they spent said money but simultaneously indirectly say that they were disingenuous. They asked for money to build a think. They built that thing. Some people have gotten the thing they helped pay to build; others have not. That's not a scam - at worst, that's the result of people making a bad bet on a product that was a long shot.

They are still discussing OUYA 2, making the raping an annually recurring thing.

It's hard to call it a "reaping" if you can't demonstrate the form or fashion of reaping. Also, to keep your metaphor going, what are they going to reap when they have literally nothing left to sow?

 

[Hazy]

Did you really, honestly, think that a 'console' that was being billed as esentially a smart phone that can play games but without all the unnecessary crap like making calls, viewing the internet, or even with a halfway decent vibration function as being good?

it's a console, who's main selling point is smart phone games.


a console, that plays smart phone games.


I'm surprised it even got funded at all, goes to show just how stupid people can be.

Hit the nail on the head. They deserve everything they got.

[sub]Just like people who supported Sarkeesian.[/sub]

 

[wulf3n]

What's interesting is people are filing complaints with the LA Department of Consumer Affairs and are being issued refunds by Ouya... I guess maybe they purchased not kickstarted, but if not what's that going to mean for kickstarter?

 

[gavinmcinns]

Just because the chunk of silicon doing the grunt work exists doesn't mean the job of designing the thing is finished. You still have to design the board that hosts it all - a task that includes various and sundry considerations. Once you have it designed, you also have to pay for all of these parts to be assembled. It isn't as though the Ouya just existed in ready state on a shelf somewhere waiting to be put into that silly box.


So you openly admit you don't know if they have money or how they spent said money but simultaneously indirectly say that they were disingenuous. They asked for money to build a think. They built that thing. Some people have gotten the thing they helped pay to build; others have not. That's not a scam - at worst, that's the result of people making a bad bet on a product that was a long shot.

It's hard to call it a "reaping" if you can't demonstrate the form or fashion of reaping. Also, to keep your metaphor going, what are they going to reap when they have literally nothing left to sow?

Designing and manufacturing hardware like the ps4 takes a lot of time and money, it's true. A ps4 has well over a thousand different doodads and thing a ma jiggers.

OUYA has 3. The tegra 3 chip loaded with OUYA interface, a wifi reciever, and the plastic box it comes in. As far as manufacturing challenges go, this is baby's first supply chain management project. If it weren't such a simple product, they never would have been able to ship to retailers in the time frame they did.

The controller is slightly more complicated... I'm willing to bet that at least 75% of the manufacturing costs came from the controller.

You keep trying to "catch me" with the whole finance angle, it's not a secret that they aren't disclosing this stuff to us. But obviously they are still in operation, like I said, they just started a developer "fund", and have released an advertisement yesterday. This points to the fact that they still have some of that money, they obviously didn't blow it all on the doorstop.

And I also think you're projecting a little bit; you keep saying "we don't know their financial situation", yet you say things like "they have nothing left to sow." AFAIK, they are going ahead with the next ouya and if it sees the light of day itll be a riot.

Admittedly the reaping metaphor is a poor one, it's more like a raking

 

[gavinmcinns]

First, if the Ouya creators don't say anything, there's not much for the media to report. Aside from the occasional headline "Some Ouya backers still don't have consoles. Many angry." there's not a lot to write. Investigative journalism should play a part? Maybe. That doesn't reeeeally happen in this industry. And maybe that's a fault: that journalists just absorb PR and give it to the rest of us, but there we go. I don't know if I blame them, most of the big players in the industry are tight lipped at the best of times, and silent at the worst.

Not "maybe", that's definitely a fault. Journalism is about finding the truth, not being an industry PR shill.

If the Ouya creators don't say anything, then actual journalists would include the omission of statement from them in their report, and they would know there was an omission of statement because they would *ask them for a statement* and not receive a reply. That's the way to obtain an omission of statement.

Journalism is about three things - determining what's important, determining the truth of that important matter, and then publicizing that truth. Anyone not doing this is not a journalist. Typical industry shills become corrupt on steps 1 and 2, taking "what's important" to be whatever maximizes the profit of the capitalists in the industry, and then publicize the shit out of the industry propaganda.

Being an actual journalist requires both bravery and integrity. Just ask Edward Snowden, Bradley Manning, and Julian Assange, or the lesser known Paul Jay or Edward R. Murrow.

Industry PR shills hide behind their "enthusiasm for the medium" in order to evade the self-realization that they are frauds.

Exactly.

It's sad when you compare present day journalism to journalism 50 years ago. Nowadays, the media is one big schmoozefest with corporations and the government. It's also sad that people seem to be thinking less independently everyday. Case in point, some guy responded to your comment saying that Snowden and Manning are traitors, because it's been fried into his cortex through repeated exposure to cnn and fox channel.

Any free thinking individual would never believe those lies. He is essentially saying "The government is always right, trust the government" when in reality, the government has given us absolutely no reason to trust them. It's cause for endless frustration. Imagine how different the world would be if everyone had the courage to question things that are being force fed to them. Gaming and movies too.

 

[Elvis Starburst]

Not a scam, but a very very flawed idea. There are so many more devices that can do better than the OUYA, and with Tegra 3, it's even more flawed. Unfortunate too, I though it'd be a good idea until I did some more digging

 

[NiPah]

Kotaku reported it, the Escapist reported it, Cnet reported it, a google search of "ouya backers not getting consoles" comes up with hit after hit proving your point wrong.

I saw nothing but caramelized rectum kisses for Julie Uhrman and her posse when the project began

You base your investment choices off the opinions of gaming editors who are excited for a new piece of kit and you're going to get burned, if you think The Escapist has enough man power to fully investigate the background of a company's CEO and then offer sound investment device you're going to be disappointed.
And for what? From what I've heard the company has had issues with shipping backing up and even compensated for those who did not receive their goods, this isn't Enron it's just a small start up company running into issues.

It's sad when you compare present day journalism to journalism 50 years ago. Nowadays, the media is one big schmoozefest with corporations and the government. It's also sad that people seem to be thinking less independently everyday. Case in point, some guy responded to your comment saying that Snowden and Manning are traitors, because it's been fried into his cortex through repeated exposure to cnn and fox channel.

Any free thinking individual would never believe those lies. He is essentially saying "The government is always right, trust the government" when in reality, the government has given us absolutely no reason to trust them. It's cause for endless frustration. Imagine how different the world would be if everyone had the courage to question things that are being force fed to them. Gaming and movies too.

Comparing journalism of today to journalism 50 years ago eh? About how bad the Russians were and how Vietnam was the stepping stone for Communism?s spread throughout the world? If anything it was more controlled by the government, now it just pays better to be against the government.
He?s not a free thinking individual? But I?m guessing you think you are, I hate the be the bearer of bad news but we?re all just products of the constant exchange between society and the media. The only reason you think cnn and fox channels are not for ?free thinkers? is because that?s what your clique make you think, unless you?ve actually investigated it yourself? pfft.

 

[gavinmcinns]

Kotaku reported it, the Escapist reported it, Cnet reported it, a google search of "ouya backers not getting consoles" comes up with hit after hit proving your point wrong.

You base your investment choices off the opinions of gaming editors who are excited for a new piece of kit and you're going to get burned, if you think The Escapist has enough man power to fully investigate the background of a company's CEO and then offer sound investment device you're going to be disappointed.
And for what? From what I've heard the company has had issues with shipping backing up and even compensated for those who did not receive their goods, this isn't Enron it's just a small start up company running into issues.

Comparing journalism of today to journalism 50 years ago eh? About how bad the Russians were and how Vietnam was the stepping stone for Communism?s spread throughout the world? If anything it was more controlled by the government, now it just pays better to be against the government.
He?s not a free thinking individual? But I?m guessing you think you are, I hate the be the bearer of bad news but we?re all just products of the constant exchange between society and the media. The only reason you think cnn and fox channels are not for ?free thinkers? is because that?s what your clique make you think, unless you?ve actually investigated it yourself? pfft.

If you've paid attention to the news for as long as I have, it just becomes common sense. Fox plays to the extreme right, Msnbc and cnn are squarely pro-establishment, anyone who questions the establishment is unreasonable. Same with washington post (although that buyout will be interesting) and the NY Times (with a splash of liberal).

No one did any investigative journalism for years because they would get shut out of washington, and it's the worst it's ever been today. It took snowden to finally inform the US People about what the government was doing behind the scenes with all of our information. I don't understand how you could see that as treason. It's supposed to be OUR government, they should be accountable to us, we are their owners according to the constitution, but they've got politicians and journalists schmoozing around and giving people a pro--establishment tilt to the news the put out there. The Michael hasting crash is a great example of this, twisting the conversation and making it extremely dangerous to ask the wrong questions.

 

[V8 Ninja]

I saw nothing but caramelized rectum kisses...

I found this phrase funny. I'm also really, really tired.

A Bit More OT: Yeah, the OUYA situation seems pretty bad on all fronts. UI issues, low sales, and stupid promotional strategies have really turned "The Little Console That Could" into "The Little Console That Is Crashing And Burning".

 

[BoredRolePlayer]

Why do gamers expect hard hitting news in gaming? People only report what info they are given from PR firms. They don't go out hunting for that hot new scoop. Also I heard nothing good about the Ouya since the back version came out, so I don't know this thought that no one is reporting how the Ouya is bombing.

 

[BoredRolePlayer]

Kotaku reported it, the Escapist reported it, Cnet reported it, a google search of "ouya backers not getting consoles" comes up with hit after hit proving your point wrong.

You base your investment choices off the opinions of gaming editors who are excited for a new piece of kit and you're going to get burned, if you think The Escapist has enough man power to fully investigate the background of a company's CEO and then offer sound investment device you're going to be disappointed.
And for what? From what I've heard the company has had issues with shipping backing up and even compensated for those who did not receive their goods, this isn't Enron it's just a small start up company running into issues.

Comparing journalism of today to journalism 50 years ago eh? About how bad the Russians were and how Vietnam was the stepping stone for Communism?s spread throughout the world? If anything it was more controlled by the government, now it just pays better to be against the government.
He?s not a free thinking individual? But I?m guessing you think you are, I hate the be the bearer of bad news but we?re all just products of the constant exchange between society and the media. The only reason you think cnn and fox channels are not for ?free thinkers? is because that?s what your clique make you think, unless you?ve actually investigated it yourself? pfft.

If you've paid attention to the news for as long as I have, it just becomes common sense. Fox plays to the extreme right, Msnbc and cnn are squarely pro-establishment, anyone who questions the establishment is unreasonable. Same with washington post (although that buyout will be interesting) and the NY Times (with a splash of liberal).

No one did any investigative journalism for years because they would get shut out of washington, and it's the worst it's ever been today. It took snowden to finally inform the US People about what the government was doing behind the scenes with all of our information. I don't understand how you could see that as treason. It's supposed to be OUR government, they should be accountable to us, we are their owners according to the constitution, but they've got politicians and journalists schmoozing around and giving people a pro--establishment tilt to the news the put out there. The Michael hasting crash is a great example of this, twisting the conversation and making it extremely dangerous to ask the wrong questions.

I listen to MSNBC and CNN, and not gonna lie they seem to side for with Snowden and Manning on the whole leaking thing. Hell when Anderson Cooper was talking to the dude who broke the story he wasn't saying "Maybe your husband deserved to be held by British police". As for Manning they just report his sentence and the gender thing, no twist on it or saying he deserved what he got. Also I'm not going to lie but I hate how reporters demanded transparency yet they never disclose their sources to check on what they say.

 

[IanDavis]

If I was running a scam console, I wouldn't bother actually shipping the thing. That's too much work. There's a reason [a href=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantom_Entertainment]The Phantom[/a] never shipped anything but a keyboard.

 

[BoredRolePlayer]

If I was running a scam console, I wouldn't bother actually shipping the thing. That's too much work. There's a reason [a href=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantom_Entertainment]The Phantom[/a] never shipped anything but a keyboard.

Really I thought nothing game out...just wow... :/.

 

[briankoontz]

Really? Being a traitor is now actual journalism and they're brave? Then as if I wasn't laughing hard enough you add integrity? Those two are the exact opposite of what integrity is!

Bradley Manning opposes the goals of the multinational corporations and banks who are the primary beneficiaries of endless war and domination. The US government is a key agent of such forces, as is demonstrated by the money they receive by them in their political campaigns.

The American people need not be, and usually are not, agents of global domination. Those that are, such as perhaps yourself, consider Manning a traitor, since these powerful forces own the military and chattel is expected to behave in a manner consistent with the wishes of their master.

When Bradley Manning showed himself to not be a slave but a resistance fighter, he was condemned by the powerful, in the same way that Django was condemned by plantation owners in the movie Django Unchained.

Part of the system of propaganda is to deny all truths that might hinder the wishes of the powerful, so Mr. Manning becomes not a whistleblower and resistance fighter but a "traitor" and "harmer of national interests", as if the desires of the multinational corporations and banks ARE the national interest. They may very well believe so, as plantation owners believed that their interests were the national interest. It's up to the decent people of the world to assert their error, and Mr. Manning struck a blow in favor of that assertion, for which he is currently being punished.

 

[Dante dynamite]

Simply kickstarter is not amazon. You are not putting money in and then getting your product out. You are investing your money with a company and hoping that investment matures. I have a feeling people's inability to grasp this concept is what will kill kickstarter eventually, pity it's a nice idea in theory. Also I have my Ouya and it's a great little distraction when I want to switch off which is all I got it for.

Kickstarter isn't an investment if it was then as an investor you should get returns on your investment in relation to the success of the product as an investor you have a stake in the business but kickstarter is more like a pre-order or a donation (at small denominations) a product is pitched and if there is enough demand for the product the money earned from the people is used to create the product and the company has to either come through with making the product or full refunds legally with an investment if the project fails your money is gone.

People constantly saying it's an investment has allowed other kickstarters get away with scams (not OUYA)

 

[Vhite]

NO! It's not scam.

Kickstarter isn't preorder service and unless you are giving money away just because you want to support them you deserve lesson like this. I'm actually glad it happened so people will MAYBE learn to use Kickstarter properly.

 

[Torque2100]

Well I feel late to the party. As a die-hard PC gamer who has pretty much given up on consoles altogether I kind of missed this whole story.

Now that I've had a chance to look at it, this whole episode has left me scratching my head. A gaming console based on Smartphone hardware? Who in their right mind would ever think this is a good idea? Yet apparently they managed to get enough backers to score 8.5 Million out of the deal. Literally the only selling point for this console is price. It is objectively worse in every way and there are no games for it.

I really don't think this is a scam. They seem to me more like well-meaning amateurs who wanted to make a statement about the cost of games and consoles, but ended up getting in wayyyyyy over their heads.