I think what he said was that there needed to be a point in losing and that someone has to win as well.samsonguy920 said:
The Path Dev: Braid Is Not a Game
- Thread starter Keane Ng
- Start date
Ugh....
This sounds horrible out of context.
A few months ago, he had pointed out why he didn't much care for games lately, which was a matter of general lack of enthusiasm towards them, finding the constituent parts to be insufficient for something truely engaging and fun, and that for being all that they are, are the current games really the wonder that we make them out to be? (put a "that" in there 'cause that was a steep paraphrase)
No, he doesn't really like most modern video games, but don't we get threads popping up all over our own forums about individuals who have failed to feel a game? With someone whining like that, isn't a common reply, "Well, why don't you go and make your own game, then?"
That's it.
This is his mission statement.
He's proud of the games he has made with Aurea, of course. But did he ever say that The Path was the great game, to replace those before? Look at all the review that said things like, "What ever it is, its one Hell of those." He successfully made something distinctly different.
He's not being a snobby jerk here, he's something who isn't afraid of voicing his distain for the current situation, rationalizes why this is so, and (most importantly) does something about it.
In terms of cultural impact, he and Aurea are much akin to Warhol, except people like the Tale of Tales Brillo Boxes.
This sounds horrible out of context.
A few months ago, he had pointed out why he didn't much care for games lately, which was a matter of general lack of enthusiasm towards them, finding the constituent parts to be insufficient for something truely engaging and fun, and that for being all that they are, are the current games really the wonder that we make them out to be? (put a "that" in there 'cause that was a steep paraphrase)
No, he doesn't really like most modern video games, but don't we get threads popping up all over our own forums about individuals who have failed to feel a game? With someone whining like that, isn't a common reply, "Well, why don't you go and make your own game, then?"
That's it.
This is his mission statement.
He's proud of the games he has made with Aurea, of course. But did he ever say that The Path was the great game, to replace those before? Look at all the review that said things like, "What ever it is, its one Hell of those." He successfully made something distinctly different.
He's not being a snobby jerk here, he's something who isn't afraid of voicing his distain for the current situation, rationalizes why this is so, and (most importantly) does something about it.
In terms of cultural impact, he and Aurea are much akin to Warhol, except people like the Tale of Tales Brillo Boxes.
It's an interesting train of thought, but not put very well - that's artists for you.
It's also a matter of semantics. By this guy's reasoning Sudoku isn't a "game" because he defines a game as being different from a puzzle. By extension Monkey Island isn't a game, nor Braid, nor Tomb Raider, nor Solitaire...
Yet Bomber Man would be a game, but this very formal definition.
I don't think it's fair to say "if you don't like games, don't make games". He doesn't like a certain kind of game, and hence his game is different. If we only let lovers of existing games make new games, we'll just get more of the same. New ideas are good.
It's also a matter of semantics. By this guy's reasoning Sudoku isn't a "game" because he defines a game as being different from a puzzle. By extension Monkey Island isn't a game, nor Braid, nor Tomb Raider, nor Solitaire...
Yet Bomber Man would be a game, but this very formal definition.
I don't think it's fair to say "if you don't like games, don't make games". He doesn't like a certain kind of game, and hence his game is different. If we only let lovers of existing games make new games, we'll just get more of the same. New ideas are good.
Wow, Samyn is channeling WOPR there...
Samyn: Would you like to play a game of Chess?
User: No, I want to play Global Thermonuclear War.
Samyn: That is not a game because everybody loses!
Samyn: Would you like to play a game of Chess?
User: No, I want to play Global Thermonuclear War.
Samyn: That is not a game because everybody loses!
But the Weighted Companion Cube loves you and would never hurt you.MaxTheReaper said:
After skipping every comments that called him a douche (cause honestly, if you have to use personal attacks, you argument is pretty weak) I have to say that I kinda see what he is aiming for but I still have to disagree. Don't get me wrong, I liked The Path, the message I think it is trying to pass is very similar to what Bioshock tried to do, albeit a lot more subtly, but that's for another topic.
The important point is what I put in bold. You do an exam because you have to, you play Braid because you want to. It all goes back to Johan Huizinga definition of play:
Playing Braid being a voluntary activity, and following the other conditions of play according to this definition, Braid, like The Path, is a game.
This guy needs to get his thoughts in order. Also, if you dont like games, dont make them, because then gamers like us suffer.
The comment really should be seen as him saying that you cannot feel achievement unless it feels like you have beaten something tangible, an game AI is just a piece of code, but a person thinks, feels, hungers, they have functions other than simply existing for the sake of the game.Keane Ng said:
He also seems to be raising the question of what constitutes a game, a question very similar to what constitutes art, and I answer both in the same way. Everything.
Edit:
I don't remember hearing about his game provoking physical or mental torture of peopleCpt Big Mac said:
Many philosophers agree that play is any action done with an absence of purpose, and a game is an act of play with rules and guidelines. Therefore, any computer program made for the purpose of play has to be a game, because rules and guidelines are the only way computer programs work.
A game is any semi-structured activity done mainly for entertainment. Braid is a game. Tale of Tales is a game. Michael is just hopping aboard the pretentious express.
He has a lot of great points about what constitutes a game, but he could have made them without sounding like a pretentious art-fart more interested in hearing himself talk.
You can make a game out of nearly anything, one psychological trick (which rarely works but it can) is to try and make a "game" out of anything dull or repetitive in your own mind.
I guess I sort of understand where the guy is coming from, but it seems like he's just shooting off is mouth trying to be profound. I never got into the whole "Braid" hype so I can't comment about it specifically, but there is a whole genere of puzzle games out there. It would be interesting to see what he thought of the super-games of yesterday like "The 7th Guest" which were giant collections of intentionally obtuse puzzles. While there was an auto-solve feature the game very much punished you at the end for using it via the ending.
At any rate, yeah games are supposed to be challenging, and it gives you a good feeling if you succeed even if nobody is around to watch. I guess it really takes a gamer to understand that, and since he isn't one (by his own admission) it's not surprising he might think that way.
As far as the Lover/Dominatrix comparisons, I feel that the best games for any platform effectively give you both. You basically get a kinky lover who cares about YOU and not just your money.
>>>----Therumancer--->
I guess I sort of understand where the guy is coming from, but it seems like he's just shooting off is mouth trying to be profound. I never got into the whole "Braid" hype so I can't comment about it specifically, but there is a whole genere of puzzle games out there. It would be interesting to see what he thought of the super-games of yesterday like "The 7th Guest" which were giant collections of intentionally obtuse puzzles. While there was an auto-solve feature the game very much punished you at the end for using it via the ending.
At any rate, yeah games are supposed to be challenging, and it gives you a good feeling if you succeed even if nobody is around to watch. I guess it really takes a gamer to understand that, and since he isn't one (by his own admission) it's not surprising he might think that way.
As far as the Lover/Dominatrix comparisons, I feel that the best games for any platform effectively give you both. You basically get a kinky lover who cares about YOU and not just your money.
>>>----Therumancer--->
