The Perfect Generic Game is Mad Max
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
- Start date
"I mean, I, like many players, can't be trusted to spontaneously create the ideal experience for myself."
But why not? I've been seeing so many players with this mentality, it's so weird. Dishonored, MGSV and other 'play your way' type of games getting dismissed because people didn't get that you are meant to make your own challenge and find the style that better satisfies you, and blaming the game for it.
But why not? I've been seeing so many players with this mentality, it's so weird. Dishonored, MGSV and other 'play your way' type of games getting dismissed because people didn't get that you are meant to make your own challenge and find the style that better satisfies you, and blaming the game for it.
I was actually pleasantly surprised by the exploration in Mad Max. Yeah, you do the same objectives over and over, but each of the locations (the big camps, scavenger hideouts, etc) has their own unique layout and look (at least, as unique a look as you can have when everything's made of rusted metal), rather than the copy-paste job a lot of these games seem to do.Adam Jensen said:
To be honest- I have a lot more respect for a generic game that performs well than a game with shitty features they never bothered to test. Great stock seems to be placed by the industry in games that push the envelope and innovate, but without the games that flesh out and solidify already proven gameplay mechanics, they either become shadows of their initial depiction in future games, or vanish entirely.
I'm still waiting for Unreal Tournament's "you can't fall off a ledge if you're crouching" feature to become a gaming standard, for example.
I'm still waiting for Unreal Tournament's "you can't fall off a ledge if you're crouching" feature to become a gaming standard, for example.
I'm sure the tower thing started out with the best intentions. I often find myself jumping up and down or looking for higher ground so I can get a better view of the surroundings. Even when it's useless from a tactical standpoint because enemies will spawn behind me as soon as I turn my back. But having to climb specific, conveniently placed towers is just another chore.
Agreed. When I want to do a quest, as opposed to having to do it like I have to pay taxes or check my stove, I'm motivated by either empathy or curiosity. Of course it won't automatically make quests better. There's also the question of what you lose by ignoring them. State of Decay has all of the generic sandbox features and also the worst quests and pacing I've seen in a long time. "You let your neighbors die and now everyone hates you." It just throws everything at you and assumes you care what some random characters think about you.ExileNZ said:
This! This happened to me in Skyrim a lot. I'd climb a mountain or to the highest peak of a tower just because it was there. Looking out over the vast landscape once I'd spent half an hour or more negotiating rocky crags and dangerous jumps was its own reward.1981 said:
Imagine how unnecessarily long and tedious Skyrim would have been if you had to climb every hill/tower for more content.
Yeah, thing about generic games after a certain point you just ignore them all and only play those that have something new or fresh going for them.
As for towers, in Assassin Creed they made sense within context of the game. The whole leap of faith thing and being in the Animus, hence you need to find crucial "part" of the memory, such as leap of faith location and that would trigger revelation of stuff that happened nearby. And that's why it worked there. Context.
As for towers, in Assassin Creed they made sense within context of the game. The whole leap of faith thing and being in the Animus, hence you need to find crucial "part" of the memory, such as leap of faith location and that would trigger revelation of stuff that happened nearby. And that's why it worked there. Context.
Well, I feel like MGS5 works just fine. You can sneak around in a mission or you can ride in on a tank in the same mission. But some missions are restricted for no good reason.Ruisu said:
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Alright... I think it's time we had a short but serious discussion about what a "Sandbox" game is. A sandbox game is one where player is given a more or less blank world and are then set free to do whatever they want in it. A key element of this is building things. The more closer to a true sandbox you get the less of a story there is as well, as players are expected to create their own story within the game.
So let's look at some actual sandbox games:
Dwarf Fortress - Definitely a sandbox.
The Sims - Laugh if you want, but the very much a sandbox game.
Star Wars Galaxies - Total sandbox, only blemished a couple of theme-park quests thrown in later.
Minecraft - The avatar of sandbox games in our current era.
Now let's look at non-sandbox games:
World of Warcraft - This is a themepark MMO. There is a main quest, side quests, and it's all about "leveling up."
Far Cry (Anything) - It's an open world, yes, but it's not a sandbox. It's still main quest, side quest, and leveling up.
Elder Scrolls (Anything) - See above.
Assassin's Creed (Anything) - Even more scripted & on-rails story driven. Not a sandbox in any way, sorry.
Mad Max - All of the above mechanics combined does not a sandbox game make.
You might notice something about that second list. It began with WoW and it's "themepark" style of gameplay. This means that despite being a MMO, every person who plays that game is going to have essentially the exact same experience playing it. They will go to the same dungeons to fight the same monsters ending with the same boss to get the same epic loot because every single person in the game is the exact same "chosen one" and must therefore be treated the same as every other "chosen one" out there.
When you look at games like Assassin's Creed, Far Cry and Mad Max you're looking at the exact same formula being applied to a single-player game. Climb a tower, do the annoying minigames, fight a mob, slay the boss, level up, repeat on the next map chunk until you reach the end of the game, then wait a year and buy the next one in the franchise and repeat the whole sordid process over again.
So to recap, to be a true sandbox:
#1) No stated goal or end. That is the most absolutely important factor. The player creates their own story.
#2) You need to build sand castles in your sandbox. Or anything, really. Houses, lairs. You need to be able to shape the game world in some permanent way. Emphasis on permanent.
#3) Randomness. Not having script means you have to improvise. Improvising means things can go flying off in weird directions. That is part of the fun.
A themepark game is:
#1) Loot and/or level driven. Kill small things to gain better weapon to kill bigger things to get bigger weapon, repeat to infinity.
#2) Has a main quest. You can ignore it, but the game has a scripted ending at some point.
#3) Your actions either do not change the world in any permanent way or, if change does happen, only happens in a very restricted, pre-scripted manner. Such as putting a flag at exactly one certain location to do one specific thing.
I'm only bringing this up because game marketers know that the word "sandbox" sells so they try to slap it on to everything that they can... even games that are obviously not sandbox games. This has gotten so bad that it's starting to corrupt the very meaning of the word in the minds of consumers.
Alright... I think it's time we had a short but serious discussion about what a "Sandbox" game is. A sandbox game is one where player is given a more or less blank world and are then set free to do whatever they want in it. A key element of this is building things. The more closer to a true sandbox you get the less of a story there is as well, as players are expected to create their own story within the game.
So let's look at some actual sandbox games:
Dwarf Fortress - Definitely a sandbox.
The Sims - Laugh if you want, but the very much a sandbox game.
Star Wars Galaxies - Total sandbox, only blemished a couple of theme-park quests thrown in later.
Minecraft - The avatar of sandbox games in our current era.
Now let's look at non-sandbox games:
World of Warcraft - This is a themepark MMO. There is a main quest, side quests, and it's all about "leveling up."
Far Cry (Anything) - It's an open world, yes, but it's not a sandbox. It's still main quest, side quest, and leveling up.
Elder Scrolls (Anything) - See above.
Assassin's Creed (Anything) - Even more scripted & on-rails story driven. Not a sandbox in any way, sorry.
Mad Max - All of the above mechanics combined does not a sandbox game make.
You might notice something about that second list. It began with WoW and it's "themepark" style of gameplay. This means that despite being a MMO, every person who plays that game is going to have essentially the exact same experience playing it. They will go to the same dungeons to fight the same monsters ending with the same boss to get the same epic loot because every single person in the game is the exact same "chosen one" and must therefore be treated the same as every other "chosen one" out there.
When you look at games like Assassin's Creed, Far Cry and Mad Max you're looking at the exact same formula being applied to a single-player game. Climb a tower, do the annoying minigames, fight a mob, slay the boss, level up, repeat on the next map chunk until you reach the end of the game, then wait a year and buy the next one in the franchise and repeat the whole sordid process over again.
So to recap, to be a true sandbox:
#1) No stated goal or end. That is the most absolutely important factor. The player creates their own story.
#2) You need to build sand castles in your sandbox. Or anything, really. Houses, lairs. You need to be able to shape the game world in some permanent way. Emphasis on permanent.
#3) Randomness. Not having script means you have to improvise. Improvising means things can go flying off in weird directions. That is part of the fun.
A themepark game is:
#1) Loot and/or level driven. Kill small things to gain better weapon to kill bigger things to get bigger weapon, repeat to infinity.
#2) Has a main quest. You can ignore it, but the game has a scripted ending at some point.
#3) Your actions either do not change the world in any permanent way or, if change does happen, only happens in a very restricted, pre-scripted manner. Such as putting a flag at exactly one certain location to do one specific thing.
I'm only bringing this up because game marketers know that the word "sandbox" sells so they try to slap it on to everything that they can... even games that are obviously not sandbox games. This has gotten so bad that it's starting to corrupt the very meaning of the word in the minds of consumers.