Exploring is by far my FAVORITE part. In the first world of WOW (Not the expansions.) there were these little engineering shops. They were hidden all over the world. I loved finding them, but there was something more. These little secret engineering shops had schematics that I could sell for a profit in the auction house. I think it was an accident, seeing as how they don't exist in the expansions, but they are some of the most fun I have had while playing a game.
The Playground Model
- Thread starter Shamus Young
- Start date
"What gameplay drives you to play an MMOG? What parts do you dislike or avoid?"
I don't play MMOG at all. I hate them all - it's just time-consuming frustration.
I don't play MMOG at all. I hate them all - it's just time-consuming frustration.
I'm an explorer. Many times in WoW I did go into harder regions when my curiosity got the better of me. It actually also helped me understand aggro radius a lot better to the point I could ninja through a region that was even 20 levels over me. Took time and wasn't foolproof. There is always the chance of the creature you don't see.
PvP should always remain an element of MMO's, and I don't think it will ever be perfectly balanced without sacrificing the fun and challenge. Every class has its strength and weakness. Yes paladins are uber, but with the right maneuvers even they can be taken down.
The playground is a nice analogy, and EVE fits best as a playground MMO, but not all MMO's are for those looking for the hardcore mechanic. Which is where WoW and EQ comes in for the lighter sect. It does still feel as something is missing to really nail MMO's as an accepted game genre. It's like on the tip of the tongue.
PvP should always remain an element of MMO's, and I don't think it will ever be perfectly balanced without sacrificing the fun and challenge. Every class has its strength and weakness. Yes paladins are uber, but with the right maneuvers even they can be taken down.
The playground is a nice analogy, and EVE fits best as a playground MMO, but not all MMO's are for those looking for the hardcore mechanic. Which is where WoW and EQ comes in for the lighter sect. It does still feel as something is missing to really nail MMO's as an accepted game genre. It's like on the tip of the tongue.
I am so with you on that one. Sometimes I even used to think, it woould be better if they just asked for
I am so with you. Sometimes I would think why didnt they just ask for 100 Pristine Cleft Hoof of Doom, each boar dropping one, then making me killing loads till it actually would drop. The drop rate might be 1% but i could either be lucky and get it on first 10 kills or be extremely unlucky and having to kill more then one thousand.lesterley said:
EVE is getting a lot of love in this thread already but it's still worth mentioning that it's probably got the biggest exploration element of all the MMOs.
Exploration was the entire point of nullsec space before it became the personal stomping grounds of huge alliances and in the current iteration of the game wormhole discovery and exploration serve the same purpose but with the added excitement of not knowing when the wormhole back to safety is going to collapse and strand you Lost in Space style leaving you to survive with only your wits and whatever resources you happened to have with you as you begin a desperate search for a way home.
Exploration was the entire point of nullsec space before it became the personal stomping grounds of huge alliances and in the current iteration of the game wormhole discovery and exploration serve the same purpose but with the added excitement of not knowing when the wormhole back to safety is going to collapse and strand you Lost in Space style leaving you to survive with only your wits and whatever resources you happened to have with you as you begin a desperate search for a way home.
EQ2's crafting was definitely the best out of any MMO I've tried. I used to get a huge kick out of inspecting random people milling about and seeing them wearing a piece of armor that I'd made, and the crafting and gathering itself felt involved enough to be interesting and yet not so much as to be annoying.MNRA said:To answer your question:
Crafting, crafting and more crafting. Some gathering thrown in too, but that's to get at the crafting. hence why I enjoyed Everquest 2 so much. Not only was crafting a whole mini-game of its own, but being a woodworker allowed you to make stuff for your own home. Which was great
Oh and dressing up is fun too.
Unrelated to the quoted post: good article and good analogy. It's a shame that WoW will need to die before any other developers can try something new without it being doomed to failure before it's conceived. It could take years.
When I started playing WoW in 2005 there wasn't much pressure to reach the level cap. There were only a couple of raids available. So I had 60 levels of content to play with and I was pretty happy with all of it. Solo, grouping, PvP, exploring, gathering and crafting never feel like a grind. I even enjoyed fishing. If I ever got bored, I would roll up a new character and play in a different part of the world.
The only two things I hated was grinding reputations and quest lines that required multiple dungeon dives. Killing the same mobs over and over again just to unlock content or get access to rep rewards is slow torture. While having a quest line that requires you to go right back into a dungeon you just cleared, means you are going to group with people that want to skip all the content. Many times I grouped with "GodIHateThisPlace" and never got to look around because he's got a key to the back door and knows a way to sneak around the mobs.
In Cataclysm, I think Blizzard is trying to deflect the race to the level cap mentality. You level out after five levels but then a new mechanic opens up to improve and customize your character. We have to see if this keeps the game interesting or turns out to be grind.
The only two things I hated was grinding reputations and quest lines that required multiple dungeon dives. Killing the same mobs over and over again just to unlock content or get access to rep rewards is slow torture. While having a quest line that requires you to go right back into a dungeon you just cleared, means you are going to group with people that want to skip all the content. Many times I grouped with "GodIHateThisPlace" and never got to look around because he's got a key to the back door and knows a way to sneak around the mobs.
In Cataclysm, I think Blizzard is trying to deflect the race to the level cap mentality. You level out after five levels but then a new mechanic opens up to improve and customize your character. We have to see if this keeps the game interesting or turns out to be grind.
As an analogy-based thinker/writer myself, I have to say this is one of the most entertaining beautiful analogies I have read in a long time, bravo.
It also highlights my central problem with MMORPG's, in the fact that you have to do chores and pay a monthly fee to do them.
Bravo sir, bravo.
It also highlights my central problem with MMORPG's, in the fact that you have to do chores and pay a monthly fee to do them.
Bravo sir, bravo.
I'd have to say Darkfall is the only MMO close to what you described. You can pretty much do anything from the get go, like physically kill anyone and loot them (not saying you will, but it is possible), ride any mount including ships, warhulks (fantasy tanks) and stuff, collect any resource, use any weapon or armour (you may suck at it though). There is a grind, however, and that's where it lets us down.
I've always wanted to try Raiding, but I've never been able to play World of Warcraft (the only MMO I've ever tried, which I have tried about three times) past the trial, because I don't like to pay monthly fees (no particular reason why, it just makes me feel like I'm just "renting" the game and I don't really "own" it).
I tried grouping in one of my trials, but one of my friends was really into it, and it felt like a career.
During my most recent trial, I tried soloing, and it was okay, but I couldn't stick with it. I guess the reason I don't like billing by the month is that you feel like you "have" to play to get your money's worth. I play games because I want to.
I tried grouping in one of my trials, but one of my friends was really into it, and it felt like a career.
During my most recent trial, I tried soloing, and it was okay, but I couldn't stick with it. I guess the reason I don't like billing by the month is that you feel like you "have" to play to get your money's worth. I play games because I want to.
I stopped playing MMO's in general four and a half months ago, but I had always liked the cooperative element of raiding. There was something special about getting 20-some-odd people to work together as a well-oiled machine, as well as the euphoria from downing a boss we had always avoided (I'm looking at you, Ignis.)
That having been said, it stopped being fun when the game became work with chewy nuggets of fun mixed in on occasion.
To be fair, I played far too much, and for a while fighting over minerals and mobs seemed more interesting than taking out the trash and paying the bills. The kicker for me was spending so much time gathering the resources necessary to make sure I was ready to tackle the events I actually wanted to do. I was doing the virtual analogue of exactly those things I was avoiding in real life.
WoW's not my only MMO, just the last one I played. (I didn't find GW attractive post-searing, I never made it past lvl 28 in Aion, and I'd hardly call D2:LoD an MMO.)
Edit: Point I can't believe I forgot.
Recall reading your EULA?
Remembering that everything I'd made and earned over the last two and a half years wasn't even mine is, to this day, the most earth-shattering moment I've ever experienced regarding a game.
That having been said, it stopped being fun when the game became work with chewy nuggets of fun mixed in on occasion.
To be fair, I played far too much, and for a while fighting over minerals and mobs seemed more interesting than taking out the trash and paying the bills. The kicker for me was spending so much time gathering the resources necessary to make sure I was ready to tackle the events I actually wanted to do. I was doing the virtual analogue of exactly those things I was avoiding in real life.
WoW's not my only MMO, just the last one I played. (I didn't find GW attractive post-searing, I never made it past lvl 28 in Aion, and I'd hardly call D2:LoD an MMO.)
Edit: Point I can't believe I forgot.
Recall reading your EULA?
Remembering that everything I'd made and earned over the last two and a half years wasn't even mine is, to this day, the most earth-shattering moment I've ever experienced regarding a game.
I play MMOs for the challenge, mainly in the form of pvp.
Two lines from No More Heros would better surmise how I feel.
"This is what it's all about, fighting your own kind."
"Don't die on me to quickly, son, I want to gorge on the sense of fulfillment till I vomit."
I played WoW avidly until not to long ago and I PvPed for hours on end. It was about the thrill of a kill, that no matter how hard my enemy struggled I would not be the first to fall. I never played for myself though, I killed when it suited the match's progression. Taking out a druid-flag tanker or running a diversion at LM or Mine. Heck, I've had to hold Mine on my own several times. I'll admit though, I was a rouge. When your able to take out 3 enemys simultanously, all of which who outrank you in gear and level, it ceases being an issue of 'overpowered', its the skill. I took pride in my skill and I enjoyed every moment of every confrontation.
Guess I've went off on a tangent though. Never really considered gaining another 10 levels a bad thing. The instances were fun, and I was on a low-population server so that's got to mean something. I was also one of those guys who read the quest text. A lot of it was pretty droll but usually had some grand finale which made it well worth the wait.
-Spoiler- the first one that comes to mind is the one where you fight one of the Lich kings generals with mutated 'hulk-like' trolls after an amusing betryal.-/spoiler-
I could probably go back to WoW and finally get around to starting the raid content but if that don't work out I still got the PvP. Still want to try out that new BG they announced not to long ago...
Two lines from No More Heros would better surmise how I feel.
"This is what it's all about, fighting your own kind."
"Don't die on me to quickly, son, I want to gorge on the sense of fulfillment till I vomit."
I played WoW avidly until not to long ago and I PvPed for hours on end. It was about the thrill of a kill, that no matter how hard my enemy struggled I would not be the first to fall. I never played for myself though, I killed when it suited the match's progression. Taking out a druid-flag tanker or running a diversion at LM or Mine. Heck, I've had to hold Mine on my own several times. I'll admit though, I was a rouge. When your able to take out 3 enemys simultanously, all of which who outrank you in gear and level, it ceases being an issue of 'overpowered', its the skill. I took pride in my skill and I enjoyed every moment of every confrontation.
Guess I've went off on a tangent though. Never really considered gaining another 10 levels a bad thing. The instances were fun, and I was on a low-population server so that's got to mean something. I was also one of those guys who read the quest text. A lot of it was pretty droll but usually had some grand finale which made it well worth the wait.
-Spoiler- the first one that comes to mind is the one where you fight one of the Lich kings generals with mutated 'hulk-like' trolls after an amusing betryal.-/spoiler-
I could probably go back to WoW and finally get around to starting the raid content but if that don't work out I still got the PvP. Still want to try out that new BG they announced not to long ago...
HATE WITH A VENGENCE the hell levels. aka mid to late lvls roughly 3/4 of the way to max. it takes a month to get to 3/4 but then takes 3 months to max out! WTF! >.<
and forced group quests at the end of a chain of solo.
it be a hoot if the last quest in a chain actually give u an option, to do the Group quest or Continue as a Solo quest. The reward being a Unique/Epic item for Group and Rare/Exceptional item for Solo. Item with the same name but colored different with one having either an extra stat or doing/having more DmG/Armor. I mean is that really so impossible to do? oO
and forced group quests at the end of a chain of solo.
it be a hoot if the last quest in a chain actually give u an option, to do the Group quest or Continue as a Solo quest. The reward being a Unique/Epic item for Group and Rare/Exceptional item for Solo. Item with the same name but colored different with one having either an extra stat or doing/having more DmG/Armor. I mean is that really so impossible to do? oO
This is why free realms is the best "mmo" ever. Exploring, collecting, "pvp" card game, gathering "professions" are all easy minigames. There wasn't any racing "quests" when I played but it was a really fun couple of months.
Such a great description. It's every reason that I hate MMOGs.
That said, I think their "the game starts at 80 model" does work for them, because it forces everybody to play through all of the content. You might think, "Why would people play a game that isn't fun just so they could get to the good stuff?" If people were rational, that would make sense, but we aren't always rational. Many of us will think, "The end game must be really good if all of these people played for weeks to get there and still play it," so they force themselves through it. They may hit the end and decide it wasn't worth it, or they may actually like it and stick with it, but either way they have played for a long time and spent a decent amount of cash.
Now, what if it really was a sandbox and everybody could play what they wanted? Assuming each group likes a small subset of the game, they would go off and play that subset, experiencing only the content they liked. It would take them a fraction of the time to do this, at which point (like everybody else who gets to the end), they would eventually get bored and demand more content. Now Blizzard has to make x-times as much content in order to keep each group busy.
It's the difference between Ikea and Walmart. In Walmart, you can walk it, get what you like, and walk out within minutes (if you know what you want). In Ikea, you have to walk through a serpentine maze for 30 minutes or more, forcing you to experience everything. We still do it, because there's a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, but we still wish we could just get what we want. But Ikea does this because it forces us to see everything, rave about the selection, and possibly pick up something on an impulse. It's all about extending the shopping opportunity. For Blizzard, it's just a matter of extending the subscription period -- hopefully until the next expansion is ready.
All that said, I would give MMOGs another shot if they gave me a chance to do the fun things without grinding for weeks.
That said, I think their "the game starts at 80 model" does work for them, because it forces everybody to play through all of the content. You might think, "Why would people play a game that isn't fun just so they could get to the good stuff?" If people were rational, that would make sense, but we aren't always rational. Many of us will think, "The end game must be really good if all of these people played for weeks to get there and still play it," so they force themselves through it. They may hit the end and decide it wasn't worth it, or they may actually like it and stick with it, but either way they have played for a long time and spent a decent amount of cash.
Now, what if it really was a sandbox and everybody could play what they wanted? Assuming each group likes a small subset of the game, they would go off and play that subset, experiencing only the content they liked. It would take them a fraction of the time to do this, at which point (like everybody else who gets to the end), they would eventually get bored and demand more content. Now Blizzard has to make x-times as much content in order to keep each group busy.
It's the difference between Ikea and Walmart. In Walmart, you can walk it, get what you like, and walk out within minutes (if you know what you want). In Ikea, you have to walk through a serpentine maze for 30 minutes or more, forcing you to experience everything. We still do it, because there's a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, but we still wish we could just get what we want. But Ikea does this because it forces us to see everything, rave about the selection, and possibly pick up something on an impulse. It's all about extending the shopping opportunity. For Blizzard, it's just a matter of extending the subscription period -- hopefully until the next expansion is ready.
All that said, I would give MMOGs another shot if they gave me a chance to do the fun things without grinding for weeks.