The Portrayal of Men and Masculinity in Video Games

[him over there]

Well no they aren't always very good, but like I said simply being a supporting character gives them the possibility of being unique or well written as opposed to the protagonists who often have to be relatively bland and archetypical. I think it's sort of sad that this protagonist=really cool guy because nobody wants to play as somebody with flaws mentality exists and that we could really benefit from some deviations from this line of thinking. In fact the only reason I see this happening so much with games is because of the medium itself, we aren't simply emphasizing with a character, by playing a game we effectively are the character which has led to some people not playing some games because the character they become they hate being.

That may be a contributing factor, but I don't think it's the only one. After all, every medium has its Mary-Sues, and that can be just as much because the writer is using the work as wish-fulfillment as it is because some wanker from marketing doesn't believe dudebros want to play a character who has feelings other than lust, rage and sarcasm.

Oh I know that every medium has its mary stu wish fulfilment, but the thing is it's the author's wish fulfilment with other mediums. In games the wish fulfilment is just as much the player's as it is the creator's which creates an audience that doesn't mind this kind of bland writing because it makes them feel good vicariously.

 

[Deathmageddon]

I suppose I sometimes live vicariously through characters, especially the ones who are prone to brutal mass-murder... I try not to think about it too much. Let the string of therapists who won't be able to help me worry about that.

 

[NinjaDeathSlap]

What annoys me most is how so few male protagonist seem to be able to walk the line between being immature and being depressing. I love shooters, but I'd really like to see more characters in these games that are actually affected by the things they see/do. However, that doesn't mean they have to whine/scowl all the time, or put others in danger and compromise the bigger picture out of their own self-indulgence. I want to see a professional. Someone who knows when to can it and get the job done, and who isn't going to let the horrors that they experience break them under pressure. However, I also want to see, I quieter, more private moments, how that person lives with the impact of what happens to them. Too often there seems to be this binary divide between angry screw-ups and immature man-children.

 

[undeadexistentialist]

Ok, nobody replied to my comment on the previous page (it's cool, I'm just using this as a lead-into line) but I'd like to reply to myself and potentially add to the thread again.

First of all, the talk here, especially about DA 2 (though I haven't played it) has caused me to realise that my characters might be less divorced from me than I thought they were. The thing is, in real life I really like getting along with people. Overall, I don't care if people like me or not, but it'll upset me every time I think of it if there's somebody who just doesn't like me and I don't know why, because, for whatever reason, I just really don't like people not liking me. What this translates to into games is I hate letting opportunities go. For all my RPG lust, I never actually roleplay because I'm too busy going to all the lengths I can to make sure everybody likes me, consequently robbing any of the relationships I work so hard to maintain - whatever my character (by which I mean good or evil where applicable) - of any real depth or significance.

You know what I liked about that game? That each arc CAN reflect a change in your character if you felt like it should. I too played the witty role, though as a warrior. Up to leandras death I took every thing thrown at me with a grain of salt.

Afterwards, in the 3rd arc, I became a bitter and resentful character, taking no shit and offering no warmth, and the dialogue Hawke delivered reflected that. What's even more impressive is that I managed to drive some of the "friends" I had at that point away from me and drew the respect of others (like fenris).

This, in particular, drove me to realise this. So OP and Rgsnstitches, if you worry about not making an impact on the world this week, worry no more. This has inspired me to, in the future, actually try and make my characters into more of a PERSON than I'd been doing before, and I thank you both. That is the first thing I have to say.

Second is more overall constructiveness (I think) about what I'd like to see, and I'd like to say first of all,

I'd like to see a shooter address the issue of post-traumatic stress disorder.

this. Second, what I'd quite like to play, though I couldn't for the life of me tell you why, is a version of the generic brown-haired wise crack. Maybe not brown-haired, maybe some more effort put into making him likable or at least entertaining, but rather than using humour to hide 'great dark secret in his past' I'd like for him to be a coward. As I say, I couldn't tell you why, but I'd be really interested to play a well-characterised coward, there's just something about the idea that appeals to me.

So that's my second two cents, you now have four of my cents, you can take them or leave them.

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

I'd like to see a shooter address the issue of post-traumatic stress disorder.

How do you propose they'd go about making that shooter, without making it a never-ending repetition of takin away player input (The "insanity" mechanics in Call of Cthulhu: Dark Corners of the Earth is the closest I can think of in a game and it had no really appreciable effect apart from distorting visuals)? I am not saying this is a bad idea necessarily, but as a professional who's seen worked with my fair of PTSD-patients, I can't for the life of me imagine how you'd put it into a game in a decent fashion where the crippling depression, anxiety and phobia is actually portrayed in a sensible fashion while still being fun to play.

Maybe it could work as a narrative device, in which you play out flashbacks and memories as you slowly unravel what horrible experiences haunts the protagonist? To be fair I doubt a shooter is the best vehicle for a game dealing with PTSD, since the shooter is meant to give us a kick out of the action and PTSD is the complete opposite of that.

But really, if you have an idea about how it could work out, I'd love to hear it.

 

[Calibanbutcher]

Well, the great male characters I remember:
1. The father from Heavy Rain.
2. The agent from Heavy Rain
3. The detective from Heavy Rain
(did I mention, that I absolutely love Heavy Rain's writing etc?)
Next up:
zack Fair of Final Fantasy VII - Crisis Core fame. Well rounded, nuanced character who was not the typical "too manly to walk"-bodybuilder, and whilst he had the "joking in the face of danger"-stuff going for him, there was more to him than that.
And, while I am at it:
Cloud Strife, FF7 and Crisis Core.

Also, many of the protagonists of Final Fantasy games of the past.
They also had great female characters:
Terra
Tidus (zing)
Yuna
Tifa (admittedly, her physique is quite uhm, unique)
And of course Aerith, one of the greatest female characters I know.

Now, more recent western games...
None come to mind... damn.

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

But really, if you have an idea about how it could work out, I'd love to hear it.

My initial idea was more that it would be one of your squadmates who's suffering the onset of the disorder. You have to make dialog choices to talk him down and get him to a hospital. Failure could end in some pretty heavy consequences, perhaps even suicide. It would be more of a subplot to a larger game meant to emphasize that being a soldier isn't just physically draining, it takes its toll mentally as well.

Admittedly, this idea came about because I still haven't finished Human Revolution, but I loved the dialog bosses. I would seriously love if someone made an entire game that was nothing but dialog trees like that wherein you play a police negotiator in crises like hostage situations. That would have more pathos and tension than any amount of Jack Slate snarling NRA propaganda at you in between his regular popping of cherry flavored chewable steroids.

As I said, I think the shooter is a poor vehicle for this kind of deal. Partially because of the reason in my last post, but also because I think it would be better suited for a roleplaying game of some sort. You yourself touch upon the dialogue idea and I think that would be imperative for this kind of drama to work and once we go into dialogue choices and similar we are straying far from shooter territory.

In general I'd love to see more games like Operation Flashpoint, which succintly drove home the point that war is hell. Games that were less jingoistic and gung-ho in their portrayal of war and a bit more nuanced in their portrayal of the (primarily) men that are sent out to fight these wars, showing both nervous breakdowns, PTSD and the good times they share. I think that such a game could take us a long way in alleviating some of the problems with the current hyper-masculine stereotype.

 

[OtherSideofSky]

I'm really happy to see this thread is still going strong. A lot of you have made some really good points and I'm glad to hear so many opinions.

I have two more things to add:
The masculine ideal presented in most games is, regrettably, the super buff 'macho' image that really began to take hold in popular culture with the onset of Arnold Schwarzenegger movies and other products of social conservatives co-opting bodybuilding (it was actually considered gay and subversive before Arnold came along). These images are often considered "camp" or even "homoerotic" now, and would have been seen the same way a decade before they hit it big. This is because they are trying so hard to project an exaggerated image of powerful, dominant, heterosexual masculinity that it generates a "I think the lady doth protest too much" reaction. These images were a reaction to what was seen as the "softening" of masculinity or the imminent demise of the "real man" and bear scant resemblance to the figures and qualities admired in the supposed halcyon days these caricatures pretend to harken back to. This stereotype is deeply related to the use of women as accessories, because the sexualized female figure was often found necessary to assert the good, old-fashioned heterosexuality of the hero, as well as to emphasize his manly physique by contrast.

Several people have mentioned the "bishonen" archetype so common in Japanese games. It is not generally acknowledged in western fandom, but these archetypes are often designed to appeal to women as objects of sexual desire (some are designed to appeal to male fantasies as well, but generally not in the way a character like Kratos plays to adolescent angst). This idea probably doesn't come across as well in Europe and America because companies here are so reluctant to target female audiences with their advertising or to present their male characters in this way in their publicity materials (especially in geek culture; one look at people like David Beckham will tell you that the 'mainstream' has begun to embrace the sexual objectification of men), but it's no accident that you see so many JRPG characters attracting large female followings in large quantities of erotic fan fiction. For all the problems Japan has with gender equality in other areas, 'geek' hobbies like video games and comic books (especially comic books) have been much more open to female fans than their western counterparts for some time, and they've become very conscious of them when designing and marketing their products (this isn't to say they don't produce exclusively male-targeted content, but it is generally matched by a lot of exclusively female-oriented material which never leaves the country).

 

[Palademon]

I can't relate to male characters.

Mostly because I'm not fueled by awesome and/or tripping on bitches.

I guess my favourite ones are witty ones, or ones that make sarcastic comments about things. I guess that shows what I'm like.

I'd like to see more male characters cry. Paints them more as a human. Unfortunately crying is either thought of as a weakness, or saved for special occasions.

 

[RobfromtheGulag]

Now that I think about it, I must admit that I liked many Survival Horror protagonists, can't even think of one that was worse than than bland and forgettable. James Sunterland from Silent Hill 2 and Alan Wake had just the right vulnerable but stoic vibe for me.

James was f'ing crazy. Harry Mason all the way. Blinders-on vision, he's going to get his kid back, even if he's a run-of-the-mill writer who sits at home every day.

 

[G-Force]

I really don't understand the hate for Nathan Drake as I saw him as the opposite of the macho badass while not going into the pretty boy JRPG stereotype.

When I say opposite I don't mean the fact that he's an opposite cause he track's jokes. What I mean is that Drake understands his own variability and Uncharted really does a great job showing this. Enemy encounters having him panicking while being shot at, he screams in fear if a grenade is tossed his way, when he climbs there's a real desperation to stay alive meanwhile you see him fall, stumble, get beaten up and tossed around in cutscenes.