both of those sound like substantially more effort than the skyrim update.Then explain why Microsoft won’t just release creation kit 2 early for starfield, work on elders scroll 6, etc. Either would being in boatloads of money.
both of those sound like substantially more effort than the skyrim update.Then explain why Microsoft won’t just release creation kit 2 early for starfield, work on elders scroll 6, etc. Either would being in boatloads of money.
Releasing the creation kit early would mean releasing an incomplete version surely? Then they'd have to update it and break all the porn mods, which would lead to this thread.Then explain why Microsoft won’t just release creation kit 2 early for starfield, work on elders scroll 6, etc. Either would being in boatloads of money.
And I'm saying that it doesn't fit the trend you're describing. You're just so hyper-fixated on that community-made element of the game that you are simply leaping to that conclusion apropos of nothing. You simply looked at the data point of "re-releasing the game" and assumed whole cloth that the point was to get rid of NSFW modders...purely because you don't expect all of the mod creators to bother porting to the newest iteration. That simply does not follow and ignores much simpler explanations that have far greater explanatory power.It fits with the overall trend. That's all I am saying about that aspect.
And cost a boatload of money. Updating or re-releasing an existing (and very popular) game with little more than a fresh coat of paint requires much less work (and has a much shorter turnaround) than creating something from the ground up does.Then explain why Microsoft won’t just release creation kit 2 early for starfield, work on elders scroll 6, etc. Either would being in boatloads of money.
I mean, the reason is very obvious. We're talking about having sex for money, and it's kind of important that a sex worker be able to negotiate directly, from a position of relative autonomy, what they will and will not do, because someone being coerced into a sex act against their will by an "employer" who essentially owns them for the duration of their contracted work hours is.. well.. there's a word for that.And yes, i know that usually leads to strange constructions where on paper none of the sex workers in brothels are employees. But i am not sure that makes their position better legally. It costs them all the employee rights like paid sick leave and makes them responsible for all the business risks and obligations.
In an ideal market where all buyers and sellers were rational actors with perfect information and no coercion was possible, sure. Too bad we don't live in one.Money. Like in every other industry in capitalist society. Less people wanting to do it means higher prices.
It gets the ball rolling on mods. Plus attracts new people to the game.Releasing the creation kit early would mean releasing an incomplete version surely? Then they'd have to update it and break all the porn mods, which would lead to this thread.
...Gets the ball rolling on mods, maybe. Attracts new people to the game? No, it really doesn't do that. The potential to create mods is rarely, if ever, a selling point for a game, and the scant few examples where you can make the argument are those games whose explicit purpose is to be a sandbox (like Minecraft) or to let you recreate things within it (like Tabletop Simulator). Even then, it's a stretch to say that's something that will attract new customers.It gets the ball rolling on mods. Plus attracts new people to the game.
Bethesda games are quite possibly the worst single hill to die on, on this one. The last TES/Fallout game released that wasn't a full-retail-price open beta banking on the modding community to drive sales, was arguably Oblivion as that was the last one to go retail without showstoppers. Which is about as positive a thing I can say about the game that had paid horse armor DLC....Gets the ball rolling on mods, maybe. Attracts new people to the game? No, it really doesn't do that...Don't confuse your personal investment in the modding community with it being some major selling point for the general market.
As someone who grew up in and lives in the rural/suburban Midwest...man, oh man, do you vastly underestimate the aftermarket/customization scene. Auto manufacturers and dealers tried to wage that battle decades ago and lost; now, the best they can accomplish is manufacturing and selling pre-modified models. The MX-5/Miata's reputation was made on it being so modification-friendly.Alternatively, you can liken it to a dealership trying to sell a car by advertising that it comes with access to the dealership's workshop, so you can tweak it on your own time/dollar. That's not something that will attract new buyers, that's something that at best is pitched to the grease monkeys within their existing client base.
I think you also miss my point. I'm not saying that these things are without appeal. Hell, I've got a shortlist of personal "must-use" mods for Skyrim that I've suggested on these boards.Bethesda games are quite possibly the worst single hill to die on, on this one. The last TES/Fallout game released that wasn't a full-retail-price open beta banking on the modding community to drive sales, was arguably Oblivion as that was the last one to go retail without showstoppers. Which is about as positive a thing I can say about the game that had paid horse armor DLC.
Every one since...well, the point Bethesda's quality assurance negatively correlates to the presence of accompanying SDK's and monetized mod marketplaces makes itself.
On the other hand, you could make that argument for games made by basically any other developer/publisher. You even named one or two to make the point. Though, I'd certainly point out the reason players continue to buy older games, is specifically thanks to compatibility mods -- especially those released for operating systems before XP x64, like for example KoTOR. That, and restored content mods.
As someone who grew up in and lives in the rural/suburban Midwest...man, oh man, do you vastly underestimate the aftermarket/customization scene. Auto manufacturers and dealers tried to wage that battle decades ago and lost; now, the best they can accomplish is manufacturing and selling pre-modified models. The MX-5/Miata's reputation was made on it being so modification-friendly.
It's not an untrue statement, but it is one which needs a bit of context.My contention is Gergar's assertion that rushing out a new creation kit will attract new players for a given game, to the extent that he sees their failure to do so as "making no business sense" and evidencing an ulterior motive, because he presumes that its release would "bring in boatloads of money". What I'm saying is that is vastly overestimating the impact of such a feature.
I found the quote you're citing.For all that modding for Bethesda games has garnered fame, only a small fraction of players actually mod their game (IIRC, the numbers I heard for Skyrim were around 8%, though those are old figures now), and only a fraction of those players are actively involved in the modding scene themselves. My point is that by the numbers that's a niche market that cannot be spun as a driving factor for these purchases.
Or to read between the lines, Bethesda was looking as early as 2014 at how to facilitate mods for console players, to boost sales on those platforms. It only makes sense Bethesda would later claim only 8% of Skyrim players in total played with mods, especially in a blog post about why Steam Workshop monetization failed and how to improve mod accessibility for their entire audience. We know with hindsight their endgame was developing and releasing Creation Club, because that's what they did.Todd Howard said:Skyrim did better than we've ever done on PC by a large, large number. And that's where the mods are. That feeds the game for a long time. And it's exciting that the new consoles are very PC-like. That opens up avenues for us going forward to do things that we've wanted to do in the past. There are kind of random ideas we're working on right now, and it's like, 'Wow, I think there's potential here to do some really cool stuff.'
Bluntly, this is hitting the same issue that Gergar did and are equivocating a statement that "a given percentage of players have modded their game" with the idea that "mods brought that percentage of players to the game". That is an entirely different statement, and not a remotely safe assumption.*snip*
"I'll wait for the first major update/modding tools to come out" is a pretty common thing to hear with Bethesda open-world games, especially when it comes to long-time Bethesda fans. But still, let's asspull a nice, conservative number for the sake of argument -- let's say had Starfield launched with its creation kit, to-date sales would have been 2% higher. That's 300,000 copies more that might have been sold to date.
I'd say it's a pretty safe assumption when even Todd Howard himself admits without a shred of irony in interviews with major gaming news outlets this is exactly the case.That is an entirely different statement, and not a remotely safe assumption.
Are they pre-ordering the game, or are their purchases counted in first-quarter sales figures, which are the industry-wide predominant key performance indicators of whether or game has been successful or not? Or, as in the case of a triple-A title released in calendar year Q3 for...some inexplicable (spoiler: it's actually totally explicable) reason that hasn't had a follow-up major post-release patch, are their sales being counted for first-quarter or Holiday season sales?Point of fact, I'd go so far as to argue that anyone who'd say "I'll wait for the first major update/modding tools to come out" is overwhelmingly likely to be part of Bethesda's core user base, and that such a statement demonstrates a familiarity both with the typical quality of Bethesda's titles and are rather explicitly waiting for patches (official or community-made) to address that issue. Put simply, they're already locked in as purchases, but are waiting specifically to avoid the "day 1" (so to speak) bugs that experience tells them are inevitable.
And in most cases, that consumer group is the one counted upon to drive sales, not impede them. I think you really need to take a step back and consider the implications that Bethesda's "love group", by your own admission, are the ones not buying the game during its most critical sales periods.Such statements are not reflective of the general market, but instead what we in the marketing would call the "love group" (an existing user base that is already predisposed towards purchase and intimately familiar with your brand's strengths and weaknesses).
Eh fuck it, you ain't gonna consider those implications I mentioned on your own. To hell with "new sales" or expanding their consumer base, this is about Bethesda's ability to retain customers. That's the point: consumers get burned by Bethesda products, they decide to wait in the future for modders to do Bethesda's job for them.Which is again to my point about the modding scene being principally populated by existing players and that it is not a driving factor for bringing in new sales.
Well, Germany has solved that by deciding that consent laws still apply and that specifically sex workers can retract consent at any time like everyone else and can't give up this right in any form of contract, whether employment or service sale.I mean, the reason is very obvious. We're talking about having sex for money, and it's kind of important that a sex worker be able to negotiate directly, from a position of relative autonomy, what they will and will not do, because someone being coerced into a sex act against their will by an "employer" who essentially owns them for the duration of their contracted work hours is.. well.. there's a word for that.
a worthy attempt (from the sound of it), but the underlying economic incentives are unchanged. so it's probably not a solution so much as a mitigation.Well, Germany has solved that by deciding that consent laws still apply and that specifically sex workers can retract consent at any time like everyone else and can't give up this right in any form of contract, whether employment or service sale.
...Except once again you're equivocating between the idea that Howard wanted to monetize the modding scene (which is to say, add microtransactions to the game to create a recurring source of revenue for an otherwise single-purchase product) with the idea that it's a driving force for sales, and are so doing by treating late adopters as lost sales because - while they explicitly announced intent to purchase - announced that they wouldn't be early adopters. More to the point, you're equivocating between your own position that an early release of the CC would have an observable impact on early sales, and Gergar's far less reasonable position that the CC would drive so many new players to the game as to mean that it makes no business sense for them to rerelease their cash cow before that creation kit. Gergar's explicit position, need I remind you, was that the fact that they haven't yet released the Creation Kit is so bizarre as to constitute evidence - in and of itself - that Bethesda must have been ordered not to do so by Microsoft at the behest of the Government in order to passive aggressively hurt sex modders in service of a pervasive puritanical agenda.I'd say it's a pretty safe assumption when even Todd Howard himself admits without a shred of irony in interviews with major gaming news outlets this is exactly the case.
I suppose this is what I get for using industry jargon in making my point. So let me try to explain this to you. In marketing, we think of potential buyers in terms of segmentation. And we do a lot of segmentation, because our jobs rely so strongly on understanding and communicating with our audience. To list just a few examples, we segment by age, region, hobbies, jobs, life stage...and of course familiarity with and disposition towards the brand.Eh fuck it, you ain't gonna consider those implications I mentioned on your own. To hell with "new sales" or expanding their consumer base, this is about Bethesda's ability to retain customers. That's the point: consumers get burned by Bethesda products, they decide to wait in the future for modders to do Bethesda's job for them.
That's not a "love group" and it's certainly not reflective of "locked-in" sales regardless of quarter. That's a consumer base making purchase decisions premeditated upon what third parties are capable of doing with the software; should Bethesda prove unwilling or incapable of delivering third-party tools or facilitate third-party content, they're not going to make the decision to purchase which means Bethesda doesn't retain their customers.
As if people needed even more reasons to take the Switch with them during bathroom breaks... (*looks shiftily towards my Switch*)It's funny you mention the Bethesda mods menu/Console. There are ways to get Loverslab mods on there. You go to the WIP section and join an NSFW discord that does "drops" of NSFW mods on there, and it works. Now I haven't done it because I have a PC. But it works.
One guy got Loverslab's Sexlab to work on the Switch's Skyrim Port.