The Problem with Arkham Origins

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jamail77

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May 21, 2011
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Forget that Rocksteady isn't working on it for a minute: That's not my problem. My problem is...well let me just quote an old YouTube comment I made:

"[You] can't keep playing sequels with combat that never evolves, improves, or changes. It makes the series tedious (franchise fatigue) & it means combat wise it's the same game (might as well be an expansion rather than sequel). AC improved Asylum's combat immensely. All this game does is add enemies that can counter your counters & the "remote claw" which is really just a multi bat-claw from Asylum modified for stealth fighting. That's not as big of a leap as was made from Asylum to City, it's disappointing."

It does far more than that wrong though. This has been mentioned and speculated on before but I'll reiterate for the heck of it: How is the Grapnel Boost in Arkham Origins? That was a prototype in Arkham City that hadn't been used outside of testing, yet it works just the same in Arkham Origins, a game FIVE years before Arkham Asylum. There is no defense for that; this is very clearly stated. The new developer isn't caring much about gameplay continuity or ludonarrative dissonance. I do like the bigger emphasis on Batman's detectiveness though.

To be fair, this game was 1) passed from the main developer to WB Games Montreal, 2) they probably couldn't figure out how to make the game fun and still display Batman as less experienced and a worse fighter, and 3) Batman is in his 2nd year of the career so while he should appear not as good or experienced as later games it's not out of the question that he's still very, very good. Still, I'm sure they could have come up with some way to replace the Grapnel Boost and make Batman seem less experienced (how in the world can he fight as well as he did in Arkham City even with all of the 3 points going for him?!?!?!!!) without losing the fun factor and maybe even enhancing the experience if not bringing a new one to the table. Unfortunately, that must have been too hard and required more manpower, experience, etc. than they had.

I also don't particularly like the story. It's silly and cliche in its own right and more so in comparison to all things Batman, previous Arkham games included (Christmas Eve? Really?,) and, at least on the surface, doesn't seem to contribute much to the overall Arkham theme and plotlines established by the last 2 games. All the unanswered questions were hints at a sequel and this game is likely to answer few of them. I do like how it's very clearly a love letter to fans in terms of nods and villains included, which, let's face it, is just another way of saying the game is using gimmicks that we're willing to excuse b/c we're fanboys/girls. Perhaps, they use them in non-gimmicky ways but there's little evidence of that so far. The story does have positives of course and I love all the voice actors and that Copperhead is a woman (it fits the villain more if you ask me, but all I saw of Copperhead was in the animated Justice League and Justice League Unlimited series of the 2000s).

Finally, they tacked on multiplayer. Don't take this the wrong way: I'm not dissing multiplayer and in fact, I don't believe games have to stand on single player alone all the time. However, RockSteady believed by not adding multiplayer they could make the single player that much better during Arkham City development. It makes you worry that WB Games Montreal is mishandling the franchise. Of course, it's possible to do both without succumbing to RockSteady's concerns and frankly back in the day I wished Arkham City had multiplayer. What Arkham Origins is doing is very similar to to other team multiplayer but at least it's got some unique mechanics and a Batman/Arkham twist to the team multiplayer genre. It adds some variety even if it's just copy/pasting the single player experience and tweaking it to be ready for multiplayer. The multiplayer I wanted back when I played City was much simpler; I simply wanted to battle other people who used the same combat system as me. I thought it would make the game so much more interesting. Imagine fighting a human player, not an AI, who was playing as Nightwing while you're Catwoman. The fighting would need tweaks to make it compatible for human gameplay and I thought once it was perfected it would make for something truly unique to oppose the likes of Super Smash Bros, Soul Calibur, FPS/TPS multiplayer, etc.

So, what do all you Arkham fans think of what you've heard and seen of Arkham Origins? Non-fans too, I suppose. For now, I think I'll pass and wait for a future bundle of some sorts or when it's dropped down in price.
 

Neverhoodian

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Well, I can attempt to retcon some of your concerns:

Batman was caught unprepared in Arkham City, so he has to obtain his suit and basic gear by contacting Alfred and having him drop the stuff off via the batplane. This process is repeated whenever he runs across some new obstacle blocking his progress (Why he didn't just send for everything at once is admittedly a bit of a plot hole). The "prototype" grapnel boost might have just meant a refined version of a gadget Batman already posessed. As for why he didn't have it in the first game...um...he didn't think he'd need it...? The asylum is relatively small and self-contained compared to the sprawling vista of Arkham City, after all.

As for Batman's fighting prowess, I like to think that the first two Arkham games take place near the end of Batman's career, with Bruce Wayne probably in his forties. Consider that Tim Drake (the third Robin) is working (mostly) independently, and the Joker makes many allusions that run-ins with "ol' Batsie" have become routine and utterly predictable by now. For all his training and gadgets, Batman is only human. He's still a formidable fighter given his decades of experience, but his body can't quite keep up like it used to. Eventually his physique is going to give out on him and force him to retire, much like his DCAU incarnation:
The Batman in Arkham Origins has the energy and vigor of youth on his side, which should help compensate for his lack of experience.

As for the story, it really isn't all that different. Batman villains start wrecking shit, Batman goes in and punches them in the face until they stop wrecking shit. Worked well enough for the previous titles (I know I'm overgeneralizing here, but when you boil it down that's what the games are essentially all about).

I agree completely about multiplayer, though. I really don't care about it in the slightest, and I hope it doesn't end up pulling resources away from the single player element.

Ultimately though, small inconsistencies and niggling plot holes will probably remain, no matter how hard they may try to explain them all. It's a common side effect of well-established franchises. Sometimes you just have to shrug it off and go with the flow.
 

jamail77

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May 21, 2011
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KevinHe92 said:
Eh, it looks good, but honestly it's as much a step forward as Revelations was to the Assassin's Creed series...so not at all.
That's exactly how I feel though I've only played like 10 minutes of an Assassin's Creed game so I can't comment on the similarity here.

Neverhoodian said:
The "prototype" grapnel boost might have just meant a refined version of a gadget Batman already possessed. As for why he didn't have it in the first game...um...he didn't think he'd need it...? The asylum is relatively small and self-contained compared to the sprawling vista of Arkham City, after all.
I've heard that explanation before and I'm sure you realize it's very weak. Arkham City heavily implies it's never been tested before in a real life situation. That retcon works sure, especially if the Arkham Origins version was so broken he was crashing into gargoyles and into the sides of buildings but it's just so weak an argument. I do agree Arkham Asylum didn't really require it.

Neverhoodian said:
The Batman in Arkham Origins has the energy and vigor of youth on his side, which should help compensate for his lack of experience.
This is a better explanation, but I would like to point out it's completely possible for someone to be in their prime in their 40s rather than their early 20s. That DCAU clip is an argument against you honestly because that Bruce is very old. He's got to be in his early 60s; he's middle aged at the very least considering when that scene takes place and how old he lives to be according to the Justice League (Unlimited?) episode "Epilogue". If he can live so long then he can keep his fighting prowess up or even go beyond (pun intended) in his 40s. Arkham Asylum and City do hint it's late in his career. Here's an image I found that suggests Bruce was in his 60s in that clip:


Neverhoodian said:
As for the story, it really isn't all that different. Batman villains start wrecking shit, Batman goes in and punches them in the face until they stop wrecking shit. Worked well enough for the previous titles (I know I'm overgeneralizing here, but when you boil it down that's what the games are essentially all about).


Ultimately though, small inconsistencies and niggling plot holes will probably remain, no matter how hard they may try to explain them all. It's a common side effect of well-established franchises. Sometimes you just have to shrug it off and go with the flow.
You can boil anything down and make things sound the same or similar; you said so yourself when you acknowledged the over-generalization involved especially since most stories have villains wrecking shit and the hero coming in to stop them. Arkham Origins just seems like a sillier story to me and more gimmicky than the past two games. My only hope is Bane is smarter this time around like the previous two games acknowledge he should be through the Riddler trivia but don't execute in reality. I agree with your second point here, but being able to avoid those would have been a sign Montreal knows what they're doing and will make leaps and bounds for the franchise (at least for this 1 game). It's 1 sign along with improved or even completely different gameplay, better story/characterization/expansion of universe, etc.
 

ninjaRiv

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Aug 25, 2010
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jamail77 said:
I also don't particularly like the story. It's silly and cliche in its own right and more so in comparison to all things Batman, previous Arkham games included (Christmas Eve? Really?,) and, at least on the surface, doesn't seem to contribute much to the overall Arkham theme and plotlines established by the last 2 games. All the unanswered questions were hints at a sequel and this game is likely to answer few of them. I do like how it's very clearly a love letter to fans in terms of nods and villains included, which, let's face it, is just another way of saying the game is using gimmicks that we're willing to excuse b/c we're fanboys/girls. Perhaps, they use them in non-gimmicky ways but there's little evidence of that so far. The story does have positives of course and I love all the voice actors and that Copperhead is a woman (it fits the villain more if you ask me, but all I saw of Copperhead was in the animated Justice League and Justice League Unlimited series of the 2000s).
Arkham City was Escape from New York... The story actually sounds better than that, to me.

As for the hints and such from the first two games; pretty sure they'll be coming up soon enough, probably in the next Rocksteady game.