The Problem With England

lostclause

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kaziard said:
Gilbert Munch said:
lostclause said:
Gilbert Munch said:
Archaeology Hat said:
lostclause said:
@ Hat
It's not that I don't like the royals it's just that i don't understand monarchists (although i have seen an article on the escapist about the queen playing a Wii which may turn some against her).
I'm about as "republican" as you can get. But the biggest arguement I've seen for the monarchy is one I agree with.

"What would you have instead?"
Why is that an arguement? Don't get me wrong, I love the monarchy and everything they stand for, (the 'good' side of English patriotism, the idealism that came from us being on top for most of history) but I could easily live with out them. They don't do anything majorly important (although my geography lessons have taught me the importance of tourism) but I think Britain could function perfectly well without them.
I think he's making a point about how pointless they are. Either that or how difficult they would be to remove form the system. I don't associate patriotism with the monarch, but living in the colonies may have influenced that (Go New Zealand!)
Maybe... he just says 'for the monarchy', implying he is for them staying.
meh i dont see the point of having a vestigal monarchy. They dont really add anything except the christmas speech and DOE awards. Ever since parliment took over they have been pretty much the UK mascots. However this may all be to do with the fact im scottish :p
Actually the monarchy has a lot of power: can dissolve the government, queen can requisition any piece of land she want etc. Most of it is emergency stuff but if you look closely at it it's kinda scary.
 

Baonec

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Petition to rename "The problem's with England" as the title seems to suggest only ONE problem .
 

jasoncyrus

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Gilbert Munch said:
This isn't about how much chas are ruining England, or corrupt politicians. It's about patriotism, and how it doesn't exist here.

Well, perhaps it does exist, but it's called racism. Anybody who says they love England is somehow a racist and a white supremist. That's why there are never any national anthems sung infront of a flag and with our hand over our heart. In America such jingoism is celebrated - the anthem is sung everywhere, from inaugurations to football matched, and the people genuinely care about their country. Not so much in England, and it's with the (relative) rise of the BNP that this has really become a problem. Now anyone who says that England is great is shot down, and it doesn't seem fair that this shoukd be a problem here.
Thats because England is a craphole...i know this because i've lived there and visited it faarrr too many times for my own good.

Yes england does have a national anthem God save the Queen.

Needs updating since most people don't give a monkeys about the queen anymore.

They also need to get over themselves and let Scotland/wales/ireland have their independace since they seem incapable of electing a competant leader. These days. Gordon Brown and Blair being prime examples of how their choices have cocked up the country.
 

FightThePower

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Dec 17, 2008
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Gilbert Munch said:
Anybody who says they love England is somehow a racist and a white supremist.
What? I've never heard people say that.

The BNP are racists because they want to outlaw immigration and kick out all foreigners. Me saying 'I like England' (and I do) does not make me a racist; it doesn't even make me patriotic, I just like living there. Patriotism is just believing your country is better than everyone else's because you were born in it, and I know that's not true of England.
 

blackcherry

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Honestly, its all about how over time, the differing classes have split, to the point where they are alienated from the others and feel rather confused over what england is.

The middle classes have been spurned on by the need to express themselves through consumer culture, yet are increasingly scared by the media into believing that all they can do is move away from problem areas are so they can pretend they don't exist. Yet the basic tenant of middle class life means they no longer get on with the new people who live round them, leaving them with only the need to preserved what little they have left of 'middle england', creating hostility for everyone else as the shit on lower classes in an attempt to make themselves feel better.

Meanwhile, most working class people just get on with their lives, most in poverty, which leads to confusion and anger at life. The BNP are harnessing this to their advantage in some areas, promising tougher laws and harsher punishments for wrong doers, whilst hiding behind the lie that 'they are just the bloke down the road'. To add to the mix, somewhere along the line, nationalism has gotten mixed up with racicm and the ideals of the nazis (trust me, half my dads mates don't have any idea as to the difference, thinking its ok to fly the Nazi flag as its just the same as ''being nationalistic'').

In all fairness, its always been like this in one way or another, but with the acceleration of culture (24 hour media alerts, the internet), so has come the acceleration of the processes of these norms to a possible end point. As few have to time to process the information before they are bombarded with new fresh ideas, confusion reigns, and any large companies or governments in the public eye are feeling the flak. Its why governments seem much less responsive than they used to be, the media is faster and always focusing on a new way they have messed up whilst they are still trying to clean up things reported upon months or years ago.

The basic system that used to run the country (feudal which in someway gave way to the class system) has somehow over time become intermingled with consumerist ideals, until we are bombarded with the idea that the only way is up, something people believe today. Now whilst there is nothing wrong with that, it has led to a lot of the current social tension in the past 25 years. If I'm an idiot and can see that, then the true scope of the problem is far worse and multi-faceted that we can ever hope to deal with soon.

EDIT:Bear in mind, that the above is just scratching the surface. Immigration has somehow been turned into a dirty word, and people we welcomed with open arms ten years ago now have hate heaped upon them. The topic is just so large we could spend years discussing it only to find the topic is no longer relevant enough. The human brain is good at either the small details or the large sweeping ones, rarely both at the same time. Add a government in and you can see why its 'failing Britain'. People just aren't designed to make decisions at such a large scale.
 

-Orgasmatron-

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Lukeje said:
England doesn't have a National Anthem...
Yes it does

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QIAv2EoIP0

But yea, the only thing anyone cares about patriotically is football, because it's the only good thing in England.
 

NeutralMunchHotel

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FightThePower said:
Gilbert Munch said:
Anybody who says they love England is somehow a racist and a white supremist.
What? I've never heard people say that.

The BNP are racists because they want to outlaw immigration and kick out all foreigners. Me saying 'I like England' (and I do) does not make me a racist; it doesn't even make me patriotic, I just like living there. Patriotism is just believing your country is better than everyone else's because you were born in it, and I know that's not true of England.
Ok, that's not really true, but that's the general idea of what happens. That's why people are afraid to fly the English flag, of all things.
 

ViviFFIX

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stinkychops said:
I take back what I said, but I feel Footballers are idolised by the general public far too much. Everyone wants to either be a footy star or be on reality TV, its horrible.
That I agree with, I think there should also be a cap on their pay or they should pay HUGE taxes where the money they "earn" could be used better else where. That's another problem with England, over paying celebrities and idolisation ... That being said I still enjoy watching a good ol' game of footie!
 

kaziard

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lostclause said:
kaziard said:
Gilbert Munch said:
lostclause said:
Gilbert Munch said:
Archaeology Hat said:
lostclause said:
@ Hat
It's not that I don't like the royals it's just that i don't understand monarchists (although i have seen an article on the escapist about the queen playing a Wii which may turn some against her).
I'm about as "republican" as you can get. But the biggest arguement I've seen for the monarchy is one I agree with.

"What would you have instead?"
Why is that an arguement? Don't get me wrong, I love the monarchy and everything they stand for, (the 'good' side of English patriotism, the idealism that came from us being on top for most of history) but I could easily live with out them. They don't do anything majorly important (although my geography lessons have taught me the importance of tourism) but I think Britain could function perfectly well without them.
I think he's making a point about how pointless they are. Either that or how difficult they would be to remove form the system. I don't associate patriotism with the monarch, but living in the colonies may have influenced that (Go New Zealand!)
Maybe... he just says 'for the monarchy', implying he is for them staying.
meh i dont see the point of having a vestigal monarchy. They dont really add anything except the christmas speech and DOE awards. Ever since parliment took over they have been pretty much the UK mascots. However this may all be to do with the fact im scottish :p
Actually the monarchy has a lot of power: can dissolve the government, queen can requisition any piece of land she want etc. Most of it is emergency stuff but if you look closely at it it's kinda scary.
yes but thats just on paper, i highly doubt if the queen suddenly felt the current government wasnt good enough, that she would be able to destroy it. More than likely the royal family wouldnt be recognised anymore.
 

D0WNT0WN

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lostclause said:
D0WNT0WN said:
BNP is a huge problem but I do love England and the Royal Family and it's not just out of blind loyalty.
Pardon the tangent but why do you like the royal family? I haven't anything against them but i've never seen them as useful.
I fancy the Queen, nothing is more attractive than power.
 

lostclause

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D0WNT0WN said:
lostclause said:
D0WNT0WN said:
BNP is a huge problem but I do love England and the Royal Family and it's not just out of blind loyalty.
Pardon the tangent but why do you like the royal family? I haven't anything against them but i've never seen them as useful.
I fancy the Queen, nothing is more attractive than power.
You would make a lovely couple.
Now a serious reply?
 

Vanguard_Ex

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ButterMan said:
they just have no composure and will happily throw away leads, they can never comeback and just dont believe in tehmselves like the germans and russians, having said that.. u21 euro final! come on!
Shut up and fuck off.