The Problem with Piracy...

[tofulove]

When you steal something physical like cars of TVs the person you steal it from is losing something, but with downloading games nothing physical is lost, and nothing physical is gained. If its not physical its just information, and information should be free anyway. (A game, being virtual, is technically just a lot of programing information.)

you obviously haven't read the tread, time effort and risk, are not free, your paying for the developers time effort and the risk in making it, if your steeling it your steeling his time and effort and putting him at a higher risk of financial failure. and games go under the catagory of movies, if a movie sucks it should fail cause no one will want to see it, if a movie rocks it should make a lot of money its a risky business with a good chance of making a lot of money if you do a good job, people who steel are hurting the people who put there life on the line to make some thing valuable and getting the value from with out supporting the creater.

and yes they are literally putting the life on the line, there taking loans to support them selfs as they make it, if it fails they have no money and dept and will go homeless.

 

[NeutralMunchHotel]

Secondly: Since when were morals on piracy related to age and maturity? I'd say that I was more mature than most my age, (sorry if that sounds egotistical, and basically twattish, but I think it's true) many of who pirate things. Also, adults I know have downloaded music. Does that make them immature?

It seems to me as though you're on a form of moral high horse. And that is fine, and in the long run you'll probably grow to be a better person than me.

your missing the key thing of immaturity, the its about me factor, i want it i want it i want it, i dont care how it affects others, when you get older and you may one day see the errors of your ways, but some people never grow up

I wasn't aware immaturity = 'selfishness'. What you're implying is that piracy is just something children do, and it's something they grow out of. Piracy is not like breastfeeding, and if that's how you feel about piracy then I must apologise, but you are wrong. Piracy is all about temptation, and especially when the means are laid out in front of you and it's not even a huge moral issue (every time you download a torrent, a child dies...).

 

[hermes]

When you steal something physical like cars of TVs the person you steal it from is losing something, but with downloading games nothing physical is lost, and nothing physical is gained. If its not physical its just information, and information should be free anyway. (A game, being virtual, is technically just a lot of programing information.)

A game is nothing but 1's and 0's right?
In that case, here is a free game for you: 101010001010101010101010101010101010111010110010101001010101010101010101001001010101010101010

Enjoy it. Or not... I don't care. That is the amount of game you are entitled to experience, nothing less, and certainly NOTHING more.

 

[Felated Show Pony]

Secondly: Since when were morals on piracy related to age and maturity? I'd say that I was more mature than most my age, (sorry if that sounds egotistical, and basically twattish, but I think it's true) many of who pirate things. Also, adults I know have downloaded music. Does that make them immature?

It seems to me as though you're on a form of moral high horse. And that is fine, and in the long run you'll probably grow to be a better person than me.

your missing the key thing of immaturity, the its about me factor, i want it i want it i want it, i dont care how it affects others, when you get older and you may one day see the errors of your ways, but some people never grow up

I wasn't aware immaturity = 'selfishness'. What you're implying is that piracy is just something children do, and it's something they grow out of. Piracy is not like breastfeeding, and if that's how you feel about piracy then I must apologise, but you are wrong. Piracy is all about temptation, and especially when the means are laid out in front of you and it's not even a huge moral issue (every time you download a torrent, a child dies...).

if you guys hadn't guessed by now, the moral high horse is a flagrantly ineffectual argument. If you really cared about the issue, not just the argument, you would get off your high horse and try and CONVINCE HIM YOU'RE RIGHT.

 

[tofulove]

Secondly: Since when were morals on piracy related to age and maturity? I'd say that I was more mature than most my age, (sorry if that sounds egotistical, and basically twattish, but I think it's true) many of who pirate things. Also, adults I know have downloaded music. Does that make them immature?

It seems to me as though you're on a form of moral high horse. And that is fine, and in the long run you'll probably grow to be a better person than me.

your missing the key thing of immaturity, the its about me factor, i want it i want it i want it, i dont care how it affects others, when you get older and you may one day see the errors of your ways, but some people never grow up

this is confusing immaturity with failure to conform with commonly accepted ideas. Children are born atheists too, because they haven't been exposed to religion. some people simply fail to conform as they get older as well. It's not immaturity, simply individualistic thinking. It may be immoral, or unethical, but is not inherently immature.

refusing to live with others in a mutually beneficial way with respect is a lack of maturity, like it or not you have to live with other people in a community, were a pack animal. and as a pack animal rules are set to keep order.
one can be a individual and function in society. religion imo has no basis on morals, i am to a atheist bin one sence i was 10 -when i learn they had a word for it-

 

[tofulove]

Secondly: Since when were morals on piracy related to age and maturity? I'd say that I was more mature than most my age, (sorry if that sounds egotistical, and basically twattish, but I think it's true) many of who pirate things. Also, adults I know have downloaded music. Does that make them immature?

It seems to me as though you're on a form of moral high horse. And that is fine, and in the long run you'll probably grow to be a better person than me.

your missing the key thing of immaturity, the its about me factor, i want it i want it i want it, i dont care how it affects others, when you get older and you may one day see the errors of your ways, but some people never grow up

I wasn't aware immaturity = 'selfishness'. What you're implying is that piracy is just something children do, and it's something they grow out of. Piracy is not like breastfeeding, and if that's how you feel about piracy then I must apologise, but you are wrong. Piracy is all about temptation, and especially when the means are laid out in front of you and it's not even a huge moral issue (every time you download a torrent, a child dies...).

if you guys hadn't guessed by now, the moral high horse is a flagrantly ineffectual argument. If you really cared about the issue, not just the argument, you would get off your high horse and try and CONVINCE HIM YOU'RE RIGHT.

we cant convince him, we can only keep the monkey show going and hope other people will be convince not to.

 

[tofulove]

Secondly: Since when were morals on piracy related to age and maturity? I'd say that I was more mature than most my age, (sorry if that sounds egotistical, and basically twattish, but I think it's true) many of who pirate things. Also, adults I know have downloaded music. Does that make them immature?

It seems to me as though you're on a form of moral high horse. And that is fine, and in the long run you'll probably grow to be a better person than me.

your missing the key thing of immaturity, the its about me factor, i want it i want it i want it, i dont care how it affects others, when you get older and you may one day see the errors of your ways, but some people never grow up

this is confusing immaturity with failure to conform with commonly accepted ideas. Children are born atheists too, because they haven't been exposed to religion. some people simply fail to conform as they get older as well. It's not immaturity, simply individualistic thinking. It may be immoral, or unethical, but is not inherently immature.

refusing to live with others in a mutually beneficial way with respect is a lack of maturity, like it or not you have to live with other people in a community, were a pack animal. and as a pack animal rules are set to keep order.
one can be a individual and function in society. religion imo has no basis on morals, i am to a atheist bin one sence i was 10 -when i learn they had a word for it-

Secondly: Since when were morals on piracy related to age and maturity? I'd say that I was more mature than most my age, (sorry if that sounds egotistical, and basically twattish, but I think it's true) many of who pirate things. Also, adults I know have downloaded music. Does that make them immature?

It seems to me as though you're on a form of moral high horse. And that is fine, and in the long run you'll probably grow to be a better person than me.

your missing the key thing of immaturity, the its about me factor, i want it i want it i want it, i dont care how it affects others, when you get older and you may one day see the errors of your ways, but some people never grow up

I wasn't aware immaturity = 'selfishness'. What you're implying is that piracy is just something children do, and it's something they grow out of. Piracy is not like breastfeeding, and if that's how you feel about piracy then I must apologise, but you are wrong. Piracy is all about temptation, and especially when the means are laid out in front of you and it's not even a huge moral issue (every time you download a torrent, a child dies...).

if you guys hadn't guessed by now, the moral high horse is a flagrantly ineffectual argument. If you really cared about the issue, not just the argument, you would get off your high horse and try and CONVINCE HIM YOU'RE RIGHT.

also what do you think we bin doing, its not a matter of your saying of moral high horse. its a matter of law, moral or not is there, if you want make a bill and try to get it voted on. or plan b over throw your government and make your own laws, in tell than you have to fallow the law or break it at your own risk. am i saying all lawys are good. hell no. i think there alot of silly out dated laws that need to be removed. steeling isn't one of them

 

[NeutralMunchHotel]

Secondly: Since when were morals on piracy related to age and maturity? I'd say that I was more mature than most my age, (sorry if that sounds egotistical, and basically twattish, but I think it's true) many of who pirate things. Also, adults I know have downloaded music. Does that make them immature?

It seems to me as though you're on a form of moral high horse. And that is fine, and in the long run you'll probably grow to be a better person than me.

your missing the key thing of immaturity, the its about me factor, i want it i want it i want it, i dont care how it affects others, when you get older and you may one day see the errors of your ways, but some people never grow up

I wasn't aware immaturity = 'selfishness'. What you're implying is that piracy is just something children do, and it's something they grow out of. Piracy is not like breastfeeding, and if that's how you feel about piracy then I must apologise, but you are wrong. Piracy is all about temptation, and especially when the means are laid out in front of you and it's not even a huge moral issue (every time you download a torrent, a child dies...).

if you guys hadn't guessed by now, the moral high horse is a flagrantly ineffectual argument. If you really cared about the issue, not just the argument, you would get off your high horse and try and CONVINCE HIM YOU'RE RIGHT.

we cant convince him, we can only keep the monkey show going and hope other people will be convince not to.

I wasn't aware that I needed convicing of anything. I never asked anyone to, and so far when somebody has I have explained my view. The thing is, I am young. I don't have much extra cash.

So, and I know you love them, here's another scenario: you can buy a DS game. It costs 30 pounds, and you want it. You can save up for 3 months, go to your local store and buy it. Or, you can go to jollyroger.com. Here it is free, you can have it immediately, and there are no reprocussions. You buy it from jollyroger.com, and go into town and spend money with your friends.

DS Game + Fun with friends + other things > DS Game

And that is my logic. Call it flawed, call it whatever you want, call me flawed, but as a young person, that is how it seems to me. And I know that's how it seems to a lot of other young people too, but with music or films. I don't want to seem like a kind of Jesus, but when I speak I speak for a lot of young people just like me.

 

[Felated Show Pony]

tofulove and the satan guy,

this isn't directed at any particular post of yours, but you definitely misunderstand what we are saying.

You both think that society somehow constitutes the right simply for being ultimately preimposed on individuals. the "right" thing to do has been debated for years, and yet you both act as if it's clear simply because society, our our society has made up it's mind.

That is simply rule of law in place of an argument. it has no place in a serious discussion.
That is the real immaturity here.

 

[Felated Show Pony]

also i don't mean to speak for Gilbert. it's his show,so...

 

[Calgetorix]

I really see no point discussing this. You've said it's not a need. Fine.
Then there's no logical reason for you to have the game.
Trying to justify piracy by not having enough money as a logical reason just doesn't make sense.
Only greed justifies pirating a game (or perhaps to test it before buying, but when are you just testing a game or actually playing it but just getting tired of it?).

 

[Felated Show Pony]

I really see no point discussing this. You've said it's not a need. Fine.
Then there's no logical reason for you to have the game.
Trying to justify piracy by not having enough money as a logical reason just doesn't make sense.
Only greed justifies pirating a game (or perhaps to test it before buying, but when are you just testing a game or actually playing it but just getting tired of it?).

let the big kids talk this out honey, the statement you just made shows you haven't been paying attention.

 

[hermes]

I wasn't aware immaturity = 'selfishness'. What you're implying is that piracy is just something children do, and it's something they grow out of. Piracy is not like breastfeeding, and if that's how you feel about piracy then I must apologise, but you are wrong. Piracy is all about temptation, and especially when the means are laid out in front of you and it's not even a huge moral issue (every time you download a torrent, a child dies...).

Fallout 3 much? Moral choices are never that binary or extreme in real life, which doesn't mean you have green card to choose what you already said to know it is the wrong option due to weakness.

Look, it is obvious that whatever we say here is not going to change your moral compass. You wanted to know why piracy is wrong and illegal despite being easy? In these thread there are a lot of good answers (pirasiting on other people's work for nothing than selfish reasons, not suporting some of your favorite games, sending the message that nothing excelent is appreciated but the bare minimum or nothing at all is acceptable, etc). Wheter you decide to thougth about them or just ignore them because you want your next Call of Duty fix, its your choice...

Just don't complain when your next fallout game corrupts your saves, or L4D2 has problems with your video card drivers.

 

[tofulove]

tofulove and the satan guy,

this isn't directed at any particular post of yours, but you definitely misunderstand what we are saying.

You both think that society somehow constitutes the right simply for being ultimately preimposed on individuals. the "right" thing to do has been debated for years, and yet you both act as if it's clear simply because society, our our society has made up it's mind.

That is simply rule of law in place of an argument. it has no place in a serious discussion.
That is the real immaturity here.

i understand your point entirely. but arguing in shades of black and white make for a more interesting debate. i well understand right and wrong is a matter of subjective opinion, and society norms are not necessarily right. but if i dwell in the world of grew arguments turn into a diluted philosophical discussion which takes out some of the fun.

 

[Felated Show Pony]

I wasn't aware immaturity = 'selfishness'. What you're implying is that piracy is just something children do, and it's something they grow out of. Piracy is not like breastfeeding, and if that's how you feel about piracy then I must apologise, but you are wrong. Piracy is all about temptation, and especially when the means are laid out in front of you and it's not even a huge moral issue (every time you download a torrent, a child dies...).

Fallout 3 much? Moral choices are never that binary or extreme in real life, which doesn't mean you have green card to choose what you already said to know it is the wrong option due to weakness.

Look, it is obvious that whatever we say here is not going to change your moral compass. You wanted to know why piracy is wrong and illegal despite being easy? In these thread there are a lot of good answers (pirasiting on other people's work for nothing than selfish reasons, not suporting some of your favorite games, sending the message that nothing excelent is appreciated but the bare minimum or nothing at all is acceptable, etc). Wheter you decide to thougth about them or just ignore them because you want your next Call of Duty fix, its your choice...

Just don't complain when your next fallout game corrupts your saves, or L4D2 has problems with your video card drivers.

Agreed. good solid end to the argument.

Also, I think we were arguing on two different basis-es the whole time, you from morality, us from self-interest. So, no hard feelings.

 

[NeutralMunchHotel]

I wasn't aware immaturity = 'selfishness'. What you're implying is that piracy is just something children do, and it's something they grow out of. Piracy is not like breastfeeding, and if that's how you feel about piracy then I must apologise, but you are wrong. Piracy is all about temptation, and especially when the means are laid out in front of you and it's not even a huge moral issue (every time you download a torrent, a child dies...).

Fallout 3 much? Moral choices are never that binary or extreme in real life, which doesn't mean you have green card to choose what you already said to know it is the wrong option due to weakness.

Look, it is obvious that whatever we say here is not going to change your moral compass. You wanted to know why piracy is wrong and illegal despite being easy? In these thread there are a lot of good answers (pirasiting on other people's work for nothing than selfish reasons, not suporting some of your favorite games, sending the message that nothing excelent is appreciated but the bare minimum or nothing at all is acceptable, etc). Wheter you decide to thougth about them or just ignore them because you want your next Call of Duty fix, its your choice...

Just don't complain when your next fallout game corrupts your saves, or L4D2 has problems with your video card drivers.

I have never pirated a PC game, so I'm quite sure that wont happen. I don't have a modded console. As I said in my original post, I've only ever downloaded DS roms (not that that's justification, I don't see that as moral justification). It's just that people have inferred that that means I am the Big Bad Pirate, downloading every game from here to Timbuktu. That's simply not it.

 

[Calgetorix]

I wasn't aware that I needed convicing of anything. I never asked anyone to, and so far when somebody has I have explained my view. The thing is, I am young. I don't have much extra cash.

So, and I know you love them, here's another scenario: you can buy a DS game. It costs 30 pounds, and you want it. You can save up for 3 months, go to your local store and buy it. Or, you can go to jollyroger.com. Here it is free, you can have it immediately, and there are no reprocussions. You buy it from jollyroger.com, and go into town and spend money with your friends.

DS Game + Fun with friends + other things > DS Game

And that is my logic. Call it flawed, call it whatever you want, call me flawed, but as a young person, that is how it seems to me. And I know that's how it seems to a lot of other young people too, but with music or films. I don't want to seem like a kind of Jesus, but when I speak I speak for a lot of young people just like me.

I don't see how being young and not having too much cash justifies breaking the law. The only person on a high horse is you. You place yourself higher than other people.

I'm not going to deny I've pirated some games before. However, I knew it was wrong (and you know it too, I understand). Now, though, I appreciate the time and work put into a game and respect the producers/developers/etc by buying their game. Which I hope other people do as well.

 

[tofulove]

I wasn't aware immaturity = 'selfishness'. What you're implying is that piracy is just something children do, and it's something they grow out of. Piracy is not like breastfeeding, and if that's how you feel about piracy then I must apologise, but you are wrong. Piracy is all about temptation, and especially when the means are laid out in front of you and it's not even a huge moral issue (every time you download a torrent, a child dies...).

Fallout 3 much? Moral choices are never that binary or extreme in real life, which doesn't mean you have green card to choose what you already said to know it is the wrong option due to weakness.

Look, it is obvious that whatever we say here is not going to change your moral compass. You wanted to know why piracy is wrong and illegal despite being easy? In these thread there are a lot of good answers (pirasiting on other people's work for nothing than selfish reasons, not suporting some of your favorite games, sending the message that nothing excelent is appreciated but the bare minimum or nothing at all is acceptable, etc). Wheter you decide to thougth about them or just ignore them because you want your next Call of Duty fix, its your choice...

Just don't complain when your next fallout game corrupts your saves, or L4D2 has problems with your video card drivers.

I have never pirated a PC game, so I'm quite sure that wont happen. I don't have a modded console. As I said in my original post, I've only ever downloaded DS roms (not that that's justification, I don't see that as moral justification). It's just that people have inferred that that means I am the Big Bad Pirate, downloading every game from here to Timbuktu. That's simply not it.

we get your point, you can stop repeating your self, and frankly this argument is getting boring now, its has turn into a broken record. steeling is bad steeling is bad. i cant afford games i cant afford games, lets discuss the the foundations of society by giving vague philosophical discussion.

 

[hermes]

And that is my logic. Call it flawed, call it whatever you want, call me flawed, but as a young person, that is how it seems to me. And I know that's how it seems to a lot of other young people too, but with music or films. I don't want to seem like a kind of Jesus, but when I speak I speak for a lot of young people just like me.

Then may I ask what exactly is the point of your thread?
Are you looking for acceptance? You should see by now most people here don't accept your justification.
Are you looking to change our minds? Sorry, but no. If it makes you feel better, I have being there and done that... but not anymore.
Are you looking to discuss it? You don't seem open to other positions but yours.
Are you looking to confess it? You don't seem to regret it.

 

[NeutralMunchHotel]

I have never pirated a PC game, so I'm quite sure that wont happen. I don't have a modded console. As I said in my original post, I've only ever downloaded DS roms (not that that's justification, I don't see that as moral justification). It's just that people have inferred that that means I am the Big Bad Pirate, downloading every game from here to Timbuktu. That's simply not it.

we get your point, you can stop repeating your self, and frankly this argument is getting boring now, its has turn into a broken record. steeling is bad steeling is bad. i cant afford games i cant afford games, lets discuss the the foundations of society by giving vague philosophical discussion.[/quote]

I would stop repeating myself if people stopped getting the wrong idea about the whole thread.