The Problem With the "Walking Around Simulator"

[K12]

Well that's essentially the whole point of a game, so if someone doesn't want that then maybe video games just isn't for them and they'd be better off finding some other medium.

That's like saying not everybody cuts their hair to have shorter hair.
If there's no challenge, it's not a game.

Perhaps if you didn't assume everybody that came into the salon wanted their hair cut. Some may want a restyle/recolour and a friendly chat. Just because someone may desire a different style of experience for a moment, it doesn't mean they are trampling all over your territory, redefining your favourite cabbage patch. I do not understand this gatekeepery behaviour when it comes to a trivial definition.

It's not "gatekeeping", you don't got to the salon looking to buy a new kitchen, it's just basic common sense. Are you seriously going to start accusing the salon staff of "gatekeepery behaviour" when they tell you to look else where for an oven?

Good grief wooster, that analogy needs to be put down before more damage is done to the poor thing.
Let's see how we can tidy up this mess;
First off, if the salon is selling us kitchens...a customer cannot be blamed for buying and enjoying their kitchen.

The salon isn't selling us kitchens... that's the point.

Second...off? Secondly, when some customers are referring to themselves as salon staff, others are within their right to call them out on gatekeepery behaviour.

What customers are referring to themselves as salon staff? Where did you get that from?

Ok this salon metaphor has totally gotten away from you guys here and you're misusing it. The salon "steam" (or other video game store) is selling kitchens "walking simulators" which is a product you consider inappropriate for the salon "steam" because salons "video game stores" are a place to get your hair cut "buy (more traditional) video games" and you think the salon "steam" should either stop calling itself a salon "video game store" or should stop selling kitchens "walking simulators".

Abandoning the analogy entirely. I really don't care whether a walking simulators is a game or not, people use words differently sometimes and there's no reason why your definition would be the correct one, even if it happens to fit into how the word has traditional been used (look up genetic fallacy). Definitions don't dictate what a word means they describe how words are used.

If you just want to get across the point that walking simulators are all shit and couldn't possibly be engaging the way other genres are then... just say that! I think I might well agree with that claim.

 

[Neurotic Void Melody]

What customers are referring to themselves as salon staff? Where did you get that from?

Customers in salon = consumers in gaming/ people like us. If you refer to your previous post, it would appear that you upgraded the anti-walking-simulator customers to salon staff. Naughty naughty

Salon = All gaming platforms

Hope that clears everything up. This is not as fun as it first was.

Edit: Oh damn, ninja'd..curse you, captcha...curse you!

 

[inmunitas]

What customers are referring to themselves as salon staff? Where did you get that from?

Customers in salon = consumers in gaming/ people like us. If you refer to your previous post, it would appear that you upgraded the anti-walking-simulator customers to salon staff. Naughty naughty

It was a hypothetical question.

Ok this salon metaphor has totally gotten away from you guys here and you're misusing it. The salon "steam" (or other video game store) is selling kitchens "walking simulators" which is a product you consider inappropriate for the salon "steam" because salons "video game stores" are a place to get your hair cut "buy (more traditional) video games" and you think the salon "steam" should either stop calling itself a salon "video game store" or should stop selling kitchens "walking simulators".

You seem to be more confused about it then we are, I guess you win?

 

[Redryhno]

Also, not everybody plays a video-game to be challenged.

That's like saying not everybody cuts their hair to have shorter hair.
If there's no challenge, it's not a game.

To be fair, I cut my hair every one in a while to get rid of the split ends.

A better example would probably be not everyone uses their Iphones to call one another. It's a waste of money, technology, and time if all you're gonna be doing is texting and sometimes get a ringtone app.

I'm all for there to be games that are story-focused over mechanic-focused, but there's only so far you can push that line before all you're doing is just making a cheapish movie and calling it a day. And the Chinese Room in particular has been on my shitlist since AMFP.

 

[ZZoMBiE13]

I look at walking simulators the way I'd look at a movie that was nothing but panning over scenery: yes it meets technical definitions, but has removed so many elements I wonder what is left to find entertaining. Yeah, not everyone plays games for the challenge, but not every game is Dark Souls, and if we don't want to die frequently, we play a lego game, or a nintendo platformer, or an RPG with heavy dialog. I'd never be so mentally dead I'd go back to reading Cat in the Hat. I just don't see the appeal except people like that limited level of story telling and the particular themes.

This isn't to say I don't see the point in a grander scheme. Not everything has to be combat based, and going through a mystery or political thriller with a wide array of choices on how to act to people sounds like a good idea. Even the best parts of Walking Dead and other Teltale games are trying to keep the whole group happy. Sadly, the tech isn't there yet under the best AAA budgets to pull off full interactivity with consequences, so when put together by indie developers, all they can afford to do it a truncated story with little options but "go from point A to point B"

It's a genre I can only defend what it might become, not what it is now.

Well said, and I appreciate your view.

It's an art form in it's nascent state. Something that seems like a good idea, but hasn't developed yet. Something akin to what a lot of the abstract artists of old must have gone through before that was considered a legitimate style of painting and everyone else was doing more mainstream work I'd wager.

Good post.

 

[Starik20X6]

I reckon all you need in order for a 'walking simulator' to work is for the mystery (because it's always a mystery) to be engaging enough that you'll actually want to solve it, banking on natural human curiosity to carry the player through.

 

[09philj]

The only walking simulators I like are Stanley Parable, Journey, and Proteus. Stanley Parable because it tells an interesting story in an interesting way, and Journey and Proteus because they're visually and aurally appealing, and atmospheric.

 

[CaitSeith]

Well that's essentially the whole point of a game, so if someone doesn't want that then maybe video games just isn't for them and they'd be better off finding some other medium.

That's like saying not everybody cuts their hair to have shorter hair.
If there's no challenge, it's not a game.

Perhaps if you didn't assume everybody that came into the salon wanted their hair cut. Some may want a restyle/recolour and a friendly chat. Just because someone may desire a different style of experience for a moment, it doesn't mean they are trampling all over your territory, redefining your favourite cabbage patch. I do not understand this gatekeepery behaviour when it comes to a trivial definition.

Because language shapes thought. And the minute you start dubbing "walking simulators" as games, you lower the artistic standards of the medium.

This is me sitting in my chair, sipping my coffee and taking 2 minutes to share an opinion. I don't know what "gatekeepery" means.

Wait, are you insinuating that calling the "Walking Simulators" games makes the former worse? Because that would be a pretentious statement.

 

[Thanatos2k]

The reason Stanley Parable works is it's almost a comedic deconstruction of the genre, before the genre even existed. The out the window ending in particular. Laughing at the player standing there hoping for more content and saying that you can quit anytime you want.

 

[Thanatos2k]

If Steam ever offered the ability to release things for free and put up a voluntary donation slot, "virtual exhibits" like this would be a perfect fit for that system.

You could wing it if you wanted. Game is free, there is DLC available for $X, DLC adds a "Thank You" message to the title screen.

 

[Sylocat]

Wow, the Escapist is really pushing that Phil Hornshaw guy. The editor apparently felt that it was necessary to have not one, but two links to the same article about Her Story in there.

Methinks the Escapist might be trying just a little too hard to court approval with the sort of people who think that any game that doesn't involve dudes shooting things is "an SJW game" and "SJW games" are bad.

Abandoning the analogy entirely. I really don't care whether a walking simulators is a game or not, people use words differently sometimes and there's no reason why your definition would be the correct one, even if it happens to fit into how the word has traditional been used (look up genetic fallacy). Definitions don't dictate what a word means they describe how words are used.

Basically, this. Leaving aside that some people seem to define "game" as "based around combat," even Yahtzee points out that not everything delivered on a gaming platform has to fit the narrow criteria by which the term "game" gets used. Oddly, his entire point in this column was that it's okay for some people to like that sort of thing, but of course the comments are chock full of people who go right on complaining about the very existence of walking-simulators.

Still, at least we have one column where someone mentions Gone Home and the entire comment section wasn't immediately swamped by people saying, "I don't particularly care about Gone Home but here's a fifty-paragraph essay on why it's the worst game ever and only fat hairy lesbian SJW bigots would like it."

Ok this salon metaphor has totally gotten away from you guys here and you're misusing it. The salon "steam" (or other video game store) is selling kitchens "walking simulators" which is a product you consider inappropriate for the salon "steam" because salons "video game stores" are a place to get your hair cut "buy (more traditional) video games" and you think the salon "steam" should either stop calling itself a salon "video game store" or should stop selling kitchens "walking simulators".

You seem to be more confused about it then we are, I guess you win?

You're the one who's arguing over whether a walking simulator should be compared to a kitchen or hair dye.

 

[-Dragmire-]

Wow, the Escapist is really pushing that Phil Hornshaw guy. The editor apparently felt that it was necessary to have not one, but two links to the same article about Her Story in there.

I figured it was to indicate that the link was the editor's choice and not Yahtzee's.

Seems harmless enough to me.

 

[Drathnoxis]

Wow, the Escapist is really pushing that Phil Hornshaw guy. The editor apparently felt that it was necessary to have not one, but two links to the same article about Her Story in there.

I figured it was to indicate that the link was the editor's choice and not Yahtzee's.

Seems harmless enough to me.

If that's the case then they really should have had the editor's note next to the first link, or scrapped the first link and just had the second with the editor's note. The way it is makes it look like both Yahtzee and the editor are endorsing that Phil Hornshaw's article, and besides that it's just redundant.

 

[Dalisclock]

The only walking simulators I like are Stanley Parable, Journey, and Proteus. Stanley Parable because it tells an interesting story in an interesting way, and Journey and Proteus because they're visually and aurally appealing, and atmospheric.

I'm not sure I'd call Journey a walking simulator. Journey involves basic puzzle solving, some platforming and at times, avoiding enemies who you can't fight back against. It isn't just "walk until you reach the end".

Not to mention interaction with other people(co-play).

The stanely parable, I think, in a complete inversion. Sure, it looks like at first glance that all you do is walk around, but the real trick and point to the game is finding and exploring all the different branches.

 

[1981]

A challenge can be intellectual or emotional.

Most negative reviews about Kentucky Route Zero state that "the dialogues are just people speaking rubbish sentences that don't even make sense" and "nothing of actual interest is ever going to happen". What makes it a true work of art is that when you carefully listen to what the characters say and interpret it along with the visual narrative you're rewarded with a complex and deeply moving story that most people can identify with because

Spoiler

most people know that everything comes to an end, and that end may be the beginning of something else.

Like a puzzle it needs solving, and is therefore out of reach for uninvolved or uneducated players.

 

[iller3]

forget walking, they should be called "Smug" Simulators

Yahtzee actually makes a briliant point about focus though, you tend to zone out when a game plays itself (or when an Article answers all its own questions). There's just too much crap competing for out attention these days and these hipster games don't get to pretend like they're the "Therapy" against that.... Even Focusing exercises have a clinical "fail state"

 

[Dalisclock]

A challenge can be intellectual or emotional.

Most negative reviews about Kentucky Route Zero state that "the dialogues are just people speaking rubbish sentences that don't even make sense" and "nothing of actual interest is ever going to happen". What makes it a true work of art is that when you carefully listen to what the characters say and interpret it along with the visual narrative you're rewarded with a complex and deeply moving story that most people can identify with because

Spoiler

most people know that everything comes to an end, and that end may be the beginning of something else.

Like a puzzle it needs solving, and is therefore out of reach for uninvolved or uneducated players.

Kentucky Route Zero is actually one of my favorite "Walking Simulators", because it does the concept right. No real puzzles to speak of but the exploration and the wierd nature of it is worth the time and money invested.

My only issue with KRZ is that it's been stuck at episode 3 of 5 for the last year or so. The developers insist they are still working on the game but there's no clue on when the next episode will be ready.

 

[inmunitas]

Ok this salon metaphor has totally gotten away from you guys here and you're misusing it. The salon "steam" (or other video game store) is selling kitchens "walking simulators" which is a product you consider inappropriate for the salon "steam" because salons "video game stores" are a place to get your hair cut "buy (more traditional) video games" and you think the salon "steam" should either stop calling itself a salon "video game store" or should stop selling kitchens "walking simulators".

You seem to be more confused about it then we are, I guess you win?

You're the one who's arguing over whether a walking simulator should be compared to a kitchen or hair dye.

We weren't even discussing "walking simulators", the point we were discussing was whether the gaming industry should cater to people that have no interest in or playing games, apparently believing that it shouldn't is some how "gatekeeping".

 

[Elementary - Dear Watson]

I think I have found the first Walking Simulator here with an actual use...

As someone who has been away from home for several months now, seeing Castle Combe Simulator Everybody's gone to the Rapture has given me a massive bout of homesickness...

I now have massive urges to play that game and see the Green and Pleasant lands in full HD streaming into my glistening retinas. Play some Wurzels in the background and I may breakdown in tears entirely...

If I ever get posted abroad I am fucking getting this game...