The Problem With Twilight

ProfessorLayton

Elite Member
Nov 6, 2008
7,452
0
41
BlueInkAlchemist said:
You've summed up very well what's so, so wrong with these books and films. Thank you.

It's a shame most young girls interested in Twilight won't read this or, worse, will claim that you "don't get it" as they defend their beloved fandom.
No, I don't get it. I don't get how one of the most boring movies I've ever seen in my life could become so popular. I don't get how something that's as well written as Half Life 2 fan fiction [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHxyZaZlaOs] can have so many dedicated followers. I don't get how there can be an entire series of poorly written books could sell millions of copies. There is no reason these should be this popular. There is no reason why these should make this much money. I get sick of all the hate threads on the forum and the Twilight haters are almost as annoying as the fans, but it just confuses me how this Mormon teen abstinence porn could even get off the ground, nonetheless have legions of dedicated fans who will buy literally anything with Twilight on it.
 

Sovvolf

New member
Mar 23, 2009
2,341
0
0
Ridergurl10 said:
With any luck, the message will go over the heads of most fans of the books. They may be ignorant to the message and it may not cause any harm. These things can happen a lot with books. Heck my brothers read Watchmen thousands of times and he still hasn't got the message of the comic book. Also with any luck, most of the fans of the series will have just watched the movie and are only watching it out of lust for Robert Patterson or the fellow who plays Jacob... Missing the message entirely. We can only hope for that.

That or we may have a generation of weak minded, submissive and dependent women.
 

Talvrae

The Purple Fairy
Dec 8, 2009
896
0
0
Chrinik said:
You should read the german titles to these movies and books...instead of just keeping it english (apocalypse now), or translating them outright, (Tränen der Sonne/Tears of the sun), or mix maxing it with a german title with english title as subtext or vice versa, they completely invented new titles for them.
And the worst part about them, they always play around with a wordjoke revolving the german words for until (bis) and bite (biss) by having a phrase like: "Bis zum Morgengrauen" (Until Dawn) and add a "(s)" after the first word...
It is so fucking stupid that I, at first thought these are 2 completely different things, because the title Twilight actually never apears...and the titular "bite", as said by MovieBob, NEVER HAPPENS ANYWAY!!!

And no, I have never seen them.
They did something similar in French
Twilight became: Fascination
New Moon Became: Tentation
Eclipse became: Hesitation...
dont think it need translation... and it really don't make sense lol
 

RN7

New member
Oct 27, 2009
824
0
0
I've always found the thought process behind the whole "female's virginity is sacred and must contained...etc." Originally I believed it to be similiar to why I see something such as Lolicon disturbing/disgusting, but then I realized that the former though pattern has less merit. The main reason behind this is, following this logic, females are never to have sex. Ever. Males are free to do...well whatever they want. This however would leave males to have no one...but other males and the human race as a whole a dying breed.

In short, Stephanie Meyers(correct my spelling if I'm wrong) is one coy, little *****.
 

Falseprophet

New member
Jan 13, 2009
1,381
0
0
Kojiro ftt said:
I still say this is a big double standard and overreaction. Women read all kinds of shitty romantic stuff. So what if one of them happens to have vampires and abstinence allegory? Get over it. It wasn't written for you.

This is like a woman complaining that porn is sending the wrong message.
stickmangrit said:
comparing this to the influence of violent media is inaccurate. consider instead how many male geeks have plunged headlong into doomed, unhealthy relationships with clearly damaged goods since Annie Hall introduced the concept of the Manic Pixie Dream Girl. how many times have young male geeks done reenactments of The Offspring's "Self Esteem" in pursuit of a wholly fictional ideal mate archetype? i've seen it more than a few times, and now socially awkward females have their own mentally unstable fictional ideal who happens to have all the qualities of an abusive douchebag to pursue. wheee!
Much as I don't disagree with Bob's analysis, I agree with you two about the conclusion. It seems a lot of adults--even very intelligent, educated people with very tolerant views who support free expression--have a problem with children reading trash. Adults are allowed to read all the trashy novels they want, but somehow, kids are unable to distinguish between fantasy and reality and every crappy novel they read is actually a brainwashing manual filling the helpless empty vessels of their minds with evil programming. It seems to go double for girls as well. I read a lot of trashy fiction as a kid. I also watched a lot of 80s action movies where might makes right and evil needs to be fought by one or two dedicated men armed to the teeth with no restraints, because society's institutions only empower criminals and terrorists, and I still enjoy these films even though my social and political views have turned out almost completely opposite.

I think it's rather unfair to one-sidedly condemn Twilight for warping young girls' minds while Judd Apatow movies (and his imitators) have been teaching slovenly, socially awkward slacker males that they deserve to end up with an attractive, loving girlfriend without having to significantly better themselves.

Twilight is trash. Four or five years after the last movie comes out, no one's going to care anymore.
 

BlueInkAlchemist

Ridiculously Awesome
Jun 4, 2008
2,231
0
0
ProfessorLayton said:
No, I don't get it. I don't get how one of the most boring movies I've ever seen in my life could become so popular. I don't get how something that's as well written as Half Life 2 fan fiction [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHxyZaZlaOs] can have so many dedicated followers. I don't get how there can be an entire series of poorly written books could sell millions of copies. There is no reason these should be this popular. There is no reason why these should make this much money. I get sick of all the hate threads on the forum and the Twilight haters are almost as annoying as the fans, but it just confuses me how this Mormon teen abstinence porn could even get off the ground, nonetheless have legions of dedicated fans who will buy literally anything with Twilight on it.
I don't get it either. You're not alone. I'm inclined to think that some of the people perpetuating the fandom have never read the books, just a summary on Wikipedia or something, and have filled in the blanks with their own imaginations.
 

TOGSolid

New member
Jul 15, 2008
1,509
0
0
Great article Bob! It's always awesome to have more ammo to load into my awesome Anti-Twilight revolver.

Personally, when I first heard the plot of the books, I was WAY more creeped out by the fact that the main character is a pedophile. Then I heard about the other pedophillic occurrences and I really have to wonder what sort of weird shit Meyer is secretly into.
 

ProfessorLayton

Elite Member
Nov 6, 2008
7,452
0
41
BlueInkAlchemist said:
I don't get it either. You're not alone. I'm inclined to think that some of the people perpetuating the fandom have never read the books, just a summary on Wikipedia or something, and have filled in the blanks with their own imaginations.
The thing is... even the summary isn't interesting. I'll be honest, I haven't read the books because I fear that if I'm caught in public with a Twilight book that I'll be a disappointment to my parents but I have heard it been summarized many times... and even the summaries aren't interesting. I saw the first 45 minutes of the first movie twice because of a very long story but the entire time was torture. It was seriously some of the worst acting, writing, and special effects I've ever seen in my life.

Falseprophet said:
Twilight is trash. Four or five years after the last movie comes out, no one's going to care anymore.
I really wish I could agree with this, but this isn't the same as Harry Potter or something like that. People are following this religiously and it's insanely popular. Twilight, the book, came out in 2005 and five years later look at it. They sell Twilight dildos! People are actually taking the message to heart.
 

Dr. Dan Challis

New member
Sep 18, 2009
30
0
0
Bob?s argument seems to be predicated on the idea that teenage girls are by and large unable to distinguish fantasy from reality. The conclusion that the Twilight series is creating an entire generation of obsequious doormats is little different from the tired, and oft debunked, position that GTA IV or MW2 are training a generation of boys to be psychopathic killers. There?s no evidence for the latter, so the former argument is completely without merit. I?m kind of surprised that someone who self identifies with geek culture would even use the such an argument.
 

StriderShinryu

New member
Dec 8, 2009
4,987
0
0
A quality examination of the negative aspects of the Twilight series. As worthy of reading by the Twilight obsessives as it is by the "Durr.. Twilight is bad bcuz vampirez aren't supposed to be sparkly!!1!" crowd.
 

Bazaalmon

New member
Apr 19, 2009
331
0
0
Compared to Twilight, The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn is like a grease stain on a tile floor! The Canterbury Tales are nothing more than a small puddle of vomit! The Divine Comedy is a nasty boil on the face of literature! Hamlet is the demented crayon scratchings of a slow child! Twilight is without a doubt the finest piece of literature known to mankind, and none shall ever surpass it!

Now, before the flaming starts, keep in mind that the above statement is bitter sarcasm, caused by hearing twihards talk about how the books are "great literature"...I think it actually made my ears bleed.

The books are some of the most poorly written trash I've ever seen...considering it great literature is nothing short of ludicrous.
 

Twinmill5000

New member
Nov 12, 2009
130
0
0
I haven't paid much attention to Twilight, and other than the fact it stole the name of a forum I loved to go on because mature writers are fun to hang out with, all I knew about it is that it's about a vampire and a werewolf and a girl and a rivalry. Up until I read this, I actually felt pretty sympathetically for Stephanie Meyer for all the upchuck she's receiving for her series. Especially when one of the novels I'm working on is about a man who creates a planet for a girl, which ends up backfiring in the end too as an example of infinite power corrupts infinitely thanks to me suddenly getting a wakeup call(also it doesn't revolve around either the said man or girl all that much), which in some ways, is arguably not better than Twilight at all. Did I mention that I don't have a doctorates in english?

Truthfully, even though I don't think too highly of her work or those that are obsessed with it, I still sympathize for the author. It's not like she's the writing equivalent of the heartless giant Activision has become. Even after watching the video and gaining a new perspective, I still stand strong that she can write what she wants. The first amendment dictates it. It may not have been good. It's the audience's fault she was so successful, however. Their fault for not reading a single Kurt Vonnegut novel. I'm just surprised Vince Flynn isn't hated so much among the internet masses, too. His work played a huge part to get me into writing. Or maybe I'm wrong there too. I don't know her. Haven't even looked her up. God knows the smug smile she wears in her picture doesn't do her a bit of good.

And with that being said, I still don't encourage watching Twilight. I encourage avoiding it. The books and movies may suck, and I have every reason to be mad because, as a writer, vampires are that much harder to write about. I'm not gonna ridicule someone for watching or liking Twilight, but, even for all the trouble she has caused me, I won't encourage attacking the author for who she is. In fact. I'll speak against it. I'll yell against it if I have to, because you might as well be attacking Steinbeck for writing about dem suthern'rs wrastl'n thur way to califo'nee.
 

Stabby Joe

New member
Jul 30, 2008
1,545
0
0
While I REALLY disagree with you over some comments you've made related to games, I'm pretty much on the same wave length when it comes to film.

One other HORRIFIC point about Twilight is younger audience's standards have declined. New Moon was voted best film of 2009 by some few thousands voters on a website that has slipped my mind... the same year with film's like District 9, Moon, Watchmen, The Hurt Locker, Up, Ponyo, Inglorious Bastards, etc not to mention the independent and/or foreign films that always go unseen/unnamed.
 

RestamSalucard

New member
Feb 26, 2010
77
0
0
bazaalmon said:
Now, before the flaming starts, keep in mind that the above statement is bitter sarcasm.
20 minutes of reminding myself about this and I still want to smack you.
 

PhunkyPhazon

New member
Dec 23, 2009
1,967
0
0
First off, I apologize in advance for any sloppyness and lack of quotes in this post. I don't have my computer right now, so I'm forced to hook my keyboard up to my Wii and browse the internet with that <_<

Anyways, I think it IS rather signifigant that Stephanie Meyer's is a Mormon. As someone who was initially born into the very religion, I can tell you from first-hand experience that Mormon's pretty much train girls from birth to be dominated by the husband and to be perfect little housewives with 30 kids. They also strongly preach abstinance and...well, I'm not sure about abortion. I can't recall the subject ever being brought up back when I was still a member. I'd imagine they're against it.

I just can't accept this as coincidence. Maybe she did it subconsiously. Or maybe her deeper sexual fantasies involve this exact sort of male dominance due to her background, either way this is just too big of a coincedence for me to pass it off as merely such.
 

Tharwen

Ep. VI: Return of the turret
May 7, 2009
9,145
0
41
Kojiro ftt said:
I still say this is a big double standard and overreaction. Women read all kinds of shitty romantic stuff. So what if one of them happens to have vampires and abstinence allegory? Get over it. It wasn't written for you.

This is like a woman complaining that porn is sending the wrong message.
But MovieBob is a reviewer. You can't expect him not to state an opinion on something he's being paid to review.
 

maninahat

New member
Nov 8, 2007
4,397
0
0
For goodness sake. Judging from this article, Meyer hasn't even got any more socially advanced than Jane Eyre or Wuthering Heights. I think I should go write an Anne Bronte-esque vampire version of The Tenant of Wildfell Hall (the best written, and most under-appreciated Bronte book) to set things straight.

If that was the case, Bella would fall in love with a disease spreading, evil vampire who whisks her away to his mansion full of asshole vampire buddies. She gets sexually assaulted, he dies from his unrepentantly horrible lifestyle, and she is finally able to meet a supportive, friendlier guy who'll listen to her problems and not dismiss her as a crazy whore.
 

Arcane Azmadi

New member
Jan 23, 2009
1,232
0
0
I had an extensive (and suprisingly heated) argument with my mother about Twilight just the other day. She's in no way a "Twilight Mom", fuck no, she hasn't even read the books or seen the movies- which was a large part of the argument. My mother's argument was that I get worked up over nothing about how much I hate Twilight and that it's a passing craze that will be completely forgotten in a couple of years. She also said that the series is really no more harmful than Mills & Boon- which she admitted was also selling a horrible, unrealistic message to young women, but that because Twilight is a "fantasy" series with vampires in it, no young women would be stupid enough to seriously look for a man like Edward Cullen.

MY argument was that, as she hadn't read the books or seen the movies (I saw the original Twilight movie, under sufference, and I've studied what happens in the book series) or studied the cultural phenomenon, she doesn't have a clue what she's talking about. That Twilight is a massive phenomenon that stupid girls (and even stupid women) everywhere are treating like the fucking Bible, yet which is far more offensive and harmful than any pulp-printed airport-stand trash that no-one reads any more and that Edward Cullen is being idealized as the "perfect boyfriend" by far too many of these stupid girls, despite the fact that he's controlling, obsesssive, creepy, personality-deficient, emotionally abusive and a jerk.

She was probably right about the fact that I do get extremely worked up and agressive when the topic is brought up, though, possibly to my own detriment.
 

maninahat

New member
Nov 8, 2007
4,397
0
0
PhunkyPhazon said:
First off, I apologize in advance for any sloppyness and lack of quotes in this post. I don't have my computer right now, so I'm forced to hook my keyboard up to my Wii and browse the internet with that <_<

Anyways, I think it IS rather signifigant that Stephanie Meyer's is a Mormon. As someone who was initially born into the very religion, I can tell you from first-hand experience that Mormon's pretty much train girls from birth to be dominated by the husband and to be perfect little housewives with 30 kids. They also strongly preach abstinance and...well, I'm not sure about abortion. I can't recall the subject ever being brought up back when I was still a member. I'd imagine they're against it.

I just can't accept this as coincidence. Maybe she did it subconsiously. Or maybe her deeper sexual fantasies involve this exact sort of male dominance due to her background, either way this is just too big of a coincedence for me to pass it off as merely such.
There is no telling how her mormonism influenced her writing. What if her mormonism actually had encouraged her to over-compensate and write a story about casual sexuality? Would this have been attributed to her beliefs? No one would assume a mormon's lifestyle would have any influence on them if they wrote hardcore erotica - so why should it necessarily be seen as anything other than a coincidence when meyer's tale parallels her religion's sexual politics?

Reviewers like to use what is called "Death of the Author" theory - a technique which ignores the writer's personal experiences/lifestyle and encourages one's own interpretation of the story. The writer's opinion no longer counts in the understanding of their work.
 

Another

New member
Mar 19, 2008
416
0
0
stickmangrit said:
Seldon2639 said:
For perspective's sake, though, is the "your life revolves around your life interest" any different from any romantic comedy? I mean, a review of even some of Gaiman's work would have some very similar undertones of female vulnerability, male heroism, ect.

Every form of media focused on romance is based in large part on the premise that "my life revolves around my love". I mean, come on, from D.N Angel and Full Metal Panic to Stardust, to John Cusack's extended resume, it's all about obsession (perhaps love) being the driving force in someone's life.

True, the male-centric stories tend more toward the deed of daring do, but even that's tinged by the "manipulative *****" aspect; and if we assume that young men are just as empty-headed as young women, then the entire catalog of tropes in that genre are doing just as much harm.

How about we count it all as escapist fantasy, and assume that the readers (male and female) can distinguish between fiction and reality.

On the issue of Bella's self, sacrifice, though, it does raise an interesting question. If the roles were significantly reversed, and a guy had to harm himself/endanger his life in order to protect or aid his love interest, would we bat an eye? When Richard in the Sword of Truth series does stupid shit in order to protect Kahlan, do we consider it wrong? When Harry Dresden becomes self-destructive and retarded after the loss of his girlfriend (and, arguably, the love of his life), do we view it as self-indulgent crap, or as legitimate character development?
here's the thing, were the characters in question accomplishing anything else during their self-destructive streaks, and were the characters in question given firmly established personalities prior to these self-destructive escapades? because the answer in Bella's case is no to both.
goes on.
I must defend Dresden and say yes. He was given a clear personality and attempts to keep going forward despite his girlfriends, ummmm, setback. Solving supernatural murders and the like and by the end of the book he was being moody in he gets somewhat over it thanks to his friends support, as well as his determination to move forward.

I love those books.