The Problem With Twilight

[Bazaalmon]

Compared to Twilight, The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn is like a grease stain on a tile floor! The Canterbury Tales are nothing more than a small puddle of vomit! The Divine Comedy is a nasty boil on the face of literature! Hamlet is the demented crayon scratchings of a slow child! Twilight is without a doubt the finest piece of literature known to mankind, and none shall ever surpass it!

Now, before the flaming starts, keep in mind that the above statement is bitter sarcasm, caused by hearing twihards talk about how the books are "great literature"...I think it actually made my ears bleed.

The books are some of the most poorly written trash I've ever seen...considering it great literature is nothing short of ludicrous.

 

[Twinmill5000]

I haven't paid much attention to Twilight, and other than the fact it stole the name of a forum I loved to go on because mature writers are fun to hang out with, all I knew about it is that it's about a vampire and a werewolf and a girl and a rivalry. Up until I read this, I actually felt pretty sympathetically for Stephanie Meyer for all the upchuck she's receiving for her series. Especially when one of the novels I'm working on is about a man who creates a planet for a girl, which ends up backfiring in the end too as an example of infinite power corrupts infinitely thanks to me suddenly getting a wakeup call(also it doesn't revolve around either the said man or girl all that much), which in some ways, is arguably not better than Twilight at all. Did I mention that I don't have a doctorates in english?

Truthfully, even though I don't think too highly of her work or those that are obsessed with it, I still sympathize for the author. It's not like she's the writing equivalent of the heartless giant Activision has become. Even after watching the video and gaining a new perspective, I still stand strong that she can write what she wants. The first amendment dictates it. It may not have been good. It's the audience's fault she was so successful, however. Their fault for not reading a single Kurt Vonnegut novel. I'm just surprised Vince Flynn isn't hated so much among the internet masses, too. His work played a huge part to get me into writing. Or maybe I'm wrong there too. I don't know her. Haven't even looked her up. God knows the smug smile she wears in her picture doesn't do her a bit of good.

And with that being said, I still don't encourage watching Twilight. I encourage avoiding it. The books and movies may suck, and I have every reason to be mad because, as a writer, vampires are that much harder to write about. I'm not gonna ridicule someone for watching or liking Twilight, but, even for all the trouble she has caused me, I won't encourage attacking the author for who she is. In fact. I'll speak against it. I'll yell against it if I have to, because you might as well be attacking Steinbeck for writing about dem suthern'rs wrastl'n thur way to califo'nee.

 

[Stabby Joe]

While I REALLY disagree with you over some comments you've made related to games, I'm pretty much on the same wave length when it comes to film.

One other HORRIFIC point about Twilight is younger audience's standards have declined. New Moon was voted best film of 2009 by some few thousands voters on a website that has slipped my mind... the same year with film's like District 9, Moon, Watchmen, The Hurt Locker, Up, Ponyo, Inglorious Bastards, etc not to mention the independent and/or foreign films that always go unseen/unnamed.

 

[RestamSalucard]

Now, before the flaming starts, keep in mind that the above statement is bitter sarcasm.

20 minutes of reminding myself about this and I still want to smack you.

 

[PhunkyPhazon]

First off, I apologize in advance for any sloppyness and lack of quotes in this post. I don't have my computer right now, so I'm forced to hook my keyboard up to my Wii and browse the internet with that <_<

Anyways, I think it IS rather signifigant that Stephanie Meyer's is a Mormon. As someone who was initially born into the very religion, I can tell you from first-hand experience that Mormon's pretty much train girls from birth to be dominated by the husband and to be perfect little housewives with 30 kids. They also strongly preach abstinance and...well, I'm not sure about abortion. I can't recall the subject ever being brought up back when I was still a member. I'd imagine they're against it.

I just can't accept this as coincidence. Maybe she did it subconsiously. Or maybe her deeper sexual fantasies involve this exact sort of male dominance due to her background, either way this is just too big of a coincedence for me to pass it off as merely such.

 

[Tharwen]

I still say this is a big double standard and overreaction. Women read all kinds of shitty romantic stuff. So what if one of them happens to have vampires and abstinence allegory? Get over it. It wasn't written for you.

This is like a woman complaining that porn is sending the wrong message.

But MovieBob is a reviewer. You can't expect him not to state an opinion on something he's being paid to review.

 

[maninahat]

For goodness sake. Judging from this article, Meyer hasn't even got any more socially advanced than Jane Eyre or Wuthering Heights. I think I should go write an Anne Bronte-esque vampire version of The Tenant of Wildfell Hall (the best written, and most under-appreciated Bronte book) to set things straight.

If that was the case, Bella would fall in love with a disease spreading, evil vampire who whisks her away to his mansion full of asshole vampire buddies. She gets sexually assaulted, he dies from his unrepentantly horrible lifestyle, and she is finally able to meet a supportive, friendlier guy who'll listen to her problems and not dismiss her as a crazy whore.

 

[Arcane Azmadi]

I had an extensive (and suprisingly heated) argument with my mother about Twilight just the other day. She's in no way a "Twilight Mom", fuck no, she hasn't even read the books or seen the movies- which was a large part of the argument. My mother's argument was that I get worked up over nothing about how much I hate Twilight and that it's a passing craze that will be completely forgotten in a couple of years. She also said that the series is really no more harmful than Mills & Boon- which she admitted was also selling a horrible, unrealistic message to young women, but that because Twilight is a "fantasy" series with vampires in it, no young women would be stupid enough to seriously look for a man like Edward Cullen.

MY argument was that, as she hadn't read the books or seen the movies (I saw the original Twilight movie, under sufference, and I've studied what happens in the book series) or studied the cultural phenomenon, she doesn't have a clue what she's talking about. That Twilight is a massive phenomenon that stupid girls (and even stupid women) everywhere are treating like the fucking Bible, yet which is far more offensive and harmful than any pulp-printed airport-stand trash that no-one reads any more and that Edward Cullen is being idealized as the "perfect boyfriend" by far too many of these stupid girls, despite the fact that he's controlling, obsesssive, creepy, personality-deficient, emotionally abusive and a jerk.

She was probably right about the fact that I do get extremely worked up and agressive when the topic is brought up, though, possibly to my own detriment.

 

[maninahat]

First off, I apologize in advance for any sloppyness and lack of quotes in this post. I don't have my computer right now, so I'm forced to hook my keyboard up to my Wii and browse the internet with that <_<

Anyways, I think it IS rather signifigant that Stephanie Meyer's is a Mormon. As someone who was initially born into the very religion, I can tell you from first-hand experience that Mormon's pretty much train girls from birth to be dominated by the husband and to be perfect little housewives with 30 kids. They also strongly preach abstinance and...well, I'm not sure about abortion. I can't recall the subject ever being brought up back when I was still a member. I'd imagine they're against it.

I just can't accept this as coincidence. Maybe she did it subconsiously. Or maybe her deeper sexual fantasies involve this exact sort of male dominance due to her background, either way this is just too big of a coincedence for me to pass it off as merely such.

There is no telling how her mormonism influenced her writing. What if her mormonism actually had encouraged her to over-compensate and write a story about casual sexuality? Would this have been attributed to her beliefs? No one would assume a mormon's lifestyle would have any influence on them if they wrote hardcore erotica - so why should it necessarily be seen as anything other than a coincidence when meyer's tale parallels her religion's sexual politics?

Reviewers like to use what is called "Death of the Author" theory - a technique which ignores the writer's personal experiences/lifestyle and encourages one's own interpretation of the story. The writer's opinion no longer counts in the understanding of their work.

 

[Another]

For perspective's sake, though, is the "your life revolves around your life interest" any different from any romantic comedy? I mean, a review of even some of Gaiman's work would have some very similar undertones of female vulnerability, male heroism, ect.

Every form of media focused on romance is based in large part on the premise that "my life revolves around my love". I mean, come on, from D.N Angel and Full Metal Panic to Stardust, to John Cusack's extended resume, it's all about obsession (perhaps love) being the driving force in someone's life.

True, the male-centric stories tend more toward the deed of daring do, but even that's tinged by the "manipulative *****" aspect; and if we assume that young men are just as empty-headed as young women, then the entire catalog of tropes in that genre are doing just as much harm.

How about we count it all as escapist fantasy, and assume that the readers (male and female) can distinguish between fiction and reality.

On the issue of Bella's self, sacrifice, though, it does raise an interesting question. If the roles were significantly reversed, and a guy had to harm himself/endanger his life in order to protect or aid his love interest, would we bat an eye? When Richard in the Sword of Truth series does stupid shit in order to protect Kahlan, do we consider it wrong? When Harry Dresden becomes self-destructive and retarded after the loss of his girlfriend (and, arguably, the love of his life), do we view it as self-indulgent crap, or as legitimate character development?

here's the thing, were the characters in question accomplishing anything else during their self-destructive streaks, and were the characters in question given firmly established personalities prior to these self-destructive escapades? because the answer in Bella's case is no to both.
goes on.

I must defend Dresden and say yes. He was given a clear personality and attempts to keep going forward despite his girlfriends, ummmm, setback. Solving supernatural murders and the like and by the end of the book he was being moody in he gets somewhat over it thanks to his friends support, as well as his determination to move forward.

I love those books.

 

[Seneschal]

I don't think we should be the ones to judge. This is a gaming website. All games ever get is cultural disdain at how immature and corrupting they are, how they function by satisfying base urges like bloodlust, collecting stuff and jumping around, how they thrive in violence and childish misogynistic plots, etc.

It's all true. And it doesn't matter one bit, because we claim it doesn't affect us. It's pure harmless fun. We know there are smart games around, but we don't feel pressured to play only those because we don't think there's anything wrong with Massive Bloody Genocide IX.

I agree, there's nothing wrong. It won't seep into our brains and create a cultural revolution led by violent man-children, media just don't work that way. So, no, I don't think reading what amounts to softcore romance-porn will affect girls just as buying toy-guns won't affect boys. If being exposed to bad media (and you all KNOW the average shooter's plot has worse writing than Twilight) is bound to make us all immoral reality-detached zombies, we ought to stop playing games then.

Which I'm not about to do, so I'm curious as to why everyone is such a hypocrite, revving up their Gears of War 2 while preaching how Twilight will make girls frigid and passive. They didn't ban your cathartic emotion-vent, why should they ban theirs?

 

[snowman6251]

First of all Moviebob speaks only truth.

Second of all, I'm not into men so I'm not necessarily the best judge but is the dude who plays Edward supposed to be attractive? I think he's ugly as fuck. His face is like, malformed or something.

 

[Twilight.falls]

MovieBob speaketh the truth once more.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

I think you're missing one thing Bob. Vampire = Sex, yes, but Vampire = STRAIGHT Sex i.e. M/F.
What do we think of the werewolfs? Well, they're a bunch of guys that hang around together, look similar, show off their physique, don't have any girls around, spend all their time wrestling, shirtless...

Yeah. Subtle.

Jacob's play for Bella is a very unsubtle metaphor for Jacob wanting to be straight, or at least take her away from straight men to make his own "fag hag", as I believe they're called. Women who stay with gay men because they get all the eye-candy/benefits without having to engage in the "other stuff".

And that's before we go into Breaking Dawn, which even the Twitards returned in their droves.

What can you put here, is it that BELLA'S SPINE BREAKS, EDWARD RIPS HER WOMB OPEN WITH HIS TEETH, JACOB FALLS IN LUST WITH HER BABY...

Yeah, Meyer is one twisted, delusional woman. My sympathy for her was lost when she declared that no-one recognised her genius because they're all men.

Wrong on both accounts, my dear.

EDIT: I think that the enthusiasm for bashing Twilight has over-ridden the good sense of people and they can't have a balanced view, all the see are all the ways in which it must be a negative, ill-intentioned, or somehow bad for reading. Everybody is treating it like the anti-christ given form. It's bad fiction, and it will pass. In hindsight, people won't even notice it, it'll be a mote in the eyes of history.

Not so much. It's that it's gained steamroller popularity. There are better paranormal romance books (Morganville Vampires, Kitty the Werewolf DJ, Weather Witch, Zodiac Signs) that don't have this message, and have believable plot, characters etc.

But the Twilight stuff keeps coming out. The Graphic Novel is laughably bad, it's only saving grace being Bella getting hit in the face with a basketball: And the marketing machine is still going.

Given 10 years, these films will still be popular and Meyer will take the place of Rowling (who also just adapted an idea that had been around for ages) or Dan Brown.

Trashy fiction has always sold well since the pulps, but when it comes with a guaranteed fanbase, then why wouldn't more writers try and emulate her "style". It's making a mote into a mountain.

If you read Twilight again, you'll see how not only are the characters, plot, story and background is bad, but so is the grammar, syntax and POV. It's not a bad book, it's a bad piece of fan-fiction. I've read stories here that are more gripping and involving.

What she's done, which in my mind is unforgivable, is take money away from decent authors who write better books, and wasted it on something that's nothing more than a soft porn Mary Sue.

The pivotal scene in each movie is basically a copy of the Trading Places Jamie Lee Curtis scene, the Barbara Windsor scene in Carry on... or the Sharon Stone scene in Basic Instincts. A groinal tickle.

Now if that's being held up as not only a fine piece of literature, but a PG-13 and a way of life; then it counts as being something far worse than just bad fiction.

When Harry Dresden becomes self-destructive and retarded after the loss of his girlfriend (and, arguably, the love of his life), do we view it as self-indulgent crap, or as legitimate character development?

When Dresden starts his book, the case begins within the first chapter. Bella gets her first sub-plot at around page 200.
Or simply, how much definition does Harry Dresden have over Bella. Because AFACIT, Meyer never even defines what Bella looks like.

 

[Lord_Ascendant]

and thats the Gospel truth, boys and girls.

*amen*

 

[Shamanic Rhythm]

I've enjoyed both the video review of the movie and this commentary...I usually avoid the Moviebob column (at least until I've had a chance to see a given film for myself) but this was one case where I knew I wouldn't be seeing the movie and wanted to see what you're take was on it.

The only concern I can see over the views you are presenting, and specifically over the suggestion that this movie might define or influence behavior in young women, is that it seems to be the same error that conventional critics and the media in general makes constantly toward the movies and games so prevalent in our gamer/nerd culture. Suggesting that the women who enjoy Twilight will be inclined to develop anti-feminist, submissive and/or powerless roles against stalker/domineering males sounds very close (in my mind) the popular assertion that if I love to play Modern Warfare 2 then I must either be a gun nut, prone to violence in real life, or otherwise am easily influenced in some way for the worse. We know the people who make such assertions about our gamer culture are full of it, because we know that we, as people, are not so shallow, desperate for guidance and malleable that playing a violent game or watching a violent movie will otherwise change our very nature as people....so why are we assuming that the average Twilight fan is so gullible?

Because they are. I don't think it's fair to draw the comparison between the idea that gamers must all be potential school shooters and the idea that Twilight presents poor role models for women (and men!). One is being outed in the conservative-controlled media as a scapegoat for the social ills of today, while the other is being passively advocated by that same media. IE: they're not critiquing it, and by constantly chasing around Robert Pattinson and Stephanie Meyer they are further advocating that this series has a worthy place in our culture. No, the people saying that Twilight is a bad influence on people are on the underground.

Also, despite all the media frenzy over videogaming violence, no one really has any evidence of it causing people to turn violent. By contrast, Twilight actually has encouraged a disturbing trend to rise where dedicated fans (Twi-hards) will literally beat people up for expressing negative views of the book. It's no joke: a friend of mine told her younger brother that the sex scene in Twilight is borderline rape, and when he repeated that in school some kid punched him in the face.

I would not go as far to say that Twilight is turning people into Mormons, that's a very long bow to draw. But from what I have personally observed around my own friends, it is encouraging a certain demographic of women into believing that the way Edward and Jacob treat Bella is perfectly acceptable, indeed, desirable in a relationship. Say what you will, Twilight is not empowering for women. It's taken the appallingly misogynistic paperback romance genre out of the closet and into the mainstream, and is targeting it primarily at vulnerable young girls. That is not a good thing for anyone concerned.

 

[Seneschal]

MovieBob speaketh the truth once more.

and thats the Gospel truth, boys and girls.

*amen*

First of all Moviebob speaks only truth.

Second of all, I'm not into men so I'm not necessarily the best judge but is the dude who plays Edward supposed to be attractive? I think he's ugly as fuck. His face is like, malformed or something.

Since MovieBob is an Avatar of Truth to you all, I'm anxious to know what kind of morally restrained gender-equal balanced videogames praising nonviolence, civiliziational values and the pursuit of peace in an orderly manner are you people playing.

 

[snowman6251]

MovieBob speaketh the truth once more.

and thats the Gospel truth, boys and girls.

*amen*

First of all Moviebob speaks only truth.

Second of all, I'm not into men so I'm not necessarily the best judge but is the dude who plays Edward supposed to be attractive? I think he's ugly as fuck. His face is like, malformed or something.

Since MovieBob is an Avatar of Truth to you all, I'm anxious to know what kind of morally restrained gender-equal balanced videogames praising nonviolence, civiliziational values and the pursuit of peace in an orderly manner are you people playing.

The Sims?

 

[solidstatemind]

Very concise way to sum it up, Bob. Although I usually don't argue with 'messages' (trusting the recipient will have the good sense to think their way through such dross--- which, yes yes, maybe overly optimistic), I will agree that this message is rather nefarious.

The thing is, I think you missed the obvious connection, between the tenets of the muslim faith and the message that the 'Twilight' series presents. Not saying that Meyer intended it to be the case, but in many ways, you could argue that the role of women in 'Twilight' is actually closer to way 3rd world countries treat their women than what the LDS does.

 

[Seneschal]

MovieBob speaketh the truth once more.

and thats the Gospel truth, boys and girls.

*amen*

First of all Moviebob speaks only truth.

Second of all, I'm not into men so I'm not necessarily the best judge but is the dude who plays Edward supposed to be attractive? I think he's ugly as fuck. His face is like, malformed or something.

Since MovieBob is an Avatar of Truth to you all, I'm anxious to know what kind of morally restrained gender-equal balanced videogames praising nonviolence, civiliziational values and the pursuit of peace in an orderly manner are you people playing.

The Sims?

And you think no one can construct a "why is it bad for you"-theory about the Sims? It's quite easy: god complex, manipulatory tendencies, over-reliance of complete control, seeing other human beings as puppets. Take it to Fox News and they'll make it a cautionary tale.

It'll also be completely untrue and I'm pretty sure you're not a socially-dysfunctional megalomaniac. Potter only made a few people disappointed when they turned 11. Modern Warfare didn't raise the number of gun-related crimes. Rock music didn't create an entire planet populated with decadent sex-crazed punks. Just because it's easy to bash on something as inane and cheesy as teen romance novels, doesn't mean we have to make up reasons as to why it's bad. And it's especially unusual seeing the MovieBob going all Michael Atkinson on it.