The Racism Blame Game
- Thread starter Shamus Young
- Start date
Angelina Jolie isn't white?
Anyways, there's actually a concept that for your movie to be successful, you either need a white protaganist or Will Smith.
The article also points out this study [http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1386096/White-cinema-goers-prefer-movies-cast-similar-race-says-study.html], which also contains things of note.
No she's a woman... as in not a 30 something white dude.Zen Toombs said:
Anyway i completely agree, although i resent that image including Commander Shepard given that everyone knows the ONE TRUE Shepard is female..obviously.
Despite the fact that if you look carefully, until the focus group planned third game, it was John Shep. But yeah, I'd love a game about an Indian guy who moves to Australia. If any developers are reading this.
Supposing the relatability of the protagonist (in the sense of having the same race/gender as the player) actually affects sales, having the overwhelming majority of protagonists be white males seems like it would reduce the number of gamers overall. That seems like exactly the opposite of what the industry should want.
Good point, Shamus. You totally nailed the general idea. "Oh I'm sure games that are not about white males don't sell, so we're not even going to try to make a game starring anyone of any other ethnicity." As if Niko, who shows up in that poster - a guy who was born in an impoverished, war-torn country - would resonate better with white male audiences just because he's white and male, even though everything else about him is so distant from the usual video game audience he might as well not even be from the same planet.
There's also the idea that non-white, non-male audiences don't matter and shouldn't be catered to. Or worse: that they can relate to white male characters, while white male people can't relate to anyone who's not white and male. Sorry, isn't saying that people of a certain ethnicity are unable or less able to do something racism?
The solution to this problem, as everyone from Scott McCloud to Zak Smith to Anna Anthropy has already said, is to hire more non-white, non-male people to create our games. Otherwise you're not really creating a game that stars (say) a black woman, but one that stars a bunch of white men's concept of a black woman. Instead we have this human centipede circle jerk thing were games only pander to white males, so only white males think games are cool and decide to make games, so they only make games for white males, and so on forever.
There's also the idea that non-white, non-male audiences don't matter and shouldn't be catered to. Or worse: that they can relate to white male characters, while white male people can't relate to anyone who's not white and male. Sorry, isn't saying that people of a certain ethnicity are unable or less able to do something racism?
The solution to this problem, as everyone from Scott McCloud to Zak Smith to Anna Anthropy has already said, is to hire more non-white, non-male people to create our games. Otherwise you're not really creating a game that stars (say) a black woman, but one that stars a bunch of white men's concept of a black woman. Instead we have this human centipede circle jerk thing were games only pander to white males, so only white males think games are cool and decide to make games, so they only make games for white males, and so on forever.
Y'know, funny thing: blacks are overrepresented in the military as a whole (by about 50%)*. You'd think, with all the military dudes we've got as protagonists, we'd see a lot more black soldiers.
*Blacks make up 12% of US population, and 18% of soldiers.
*Blacks make up 12% of US population, and 18% of soldiers.
Hear hear. Nothing against grizzled, stubbly white guy. But after a frustrating hour and a half fiddling with the sliders in the awkward Mass Effect character-builder, I ended up with a dusky, bleach blond fellow with epicanthal folds and prominent cheek-bones. It felt like the only way to have a C. Shepard who felt truly unique.
(In my fiction he's an ex-clubber of Inuit origin, from the Earth slums who is fully going to boff that built black dude when he plays ME3
(In my fiction he's an ex-clubber of Inuit origin, from the Earth slums who is fully going to boff that built black dude when he plays ME3
I'm inclined to agree on most points, but when you look at the comments on racism and diversity on THESE VERY FORUMS, you see people saying they shouldn't have to play someone of a different race, or justifying the way pandering to the majority is good in a way I doubt movie fans would. I think actual gamers are the best argument against that point, Sheamus.
You live in a world where people call Obama black.
He's mixed, you know.
If he lived in Kenya, he'd probably be considered white.
You are racist.
He's mixed, you know.
If he lived in Kenya, he'd probably be considered white.
You are racist.
The problem with argument is that the ethnic makeup of the major gaming markets vary hugely. Hispanics make a large percentage of The US population but are practically non-existent in Europe and Japan. The largest ethnic minority in Japan is Koreans, in France its Arabs, in Germany its Turks and in the UK its South Asians. You can't reflect the ethnic breakdown in all the major gaming markets because its just too diverse. So if make the hero a Latino what's that going to mean to German man of Turkish origin or Dutch woman of Indonesian parentage? If you start making a point of not having a white guy with brown hair as your lead, you going to annoy the ethnicities that don't get to be the lead. You will have never ending campaign groups lobbying for there own respective group. For every Indian lead are you going to have a Pakistani one? You could quickly find yourself on a pogo stick, in the minefield of international politics without even knowing it. The truth be told, the 30s something white guy is the lowest common dominator and the safest politically of the Europe and North America gaming markets. Thats why they are so common.
As Zen Toombs points out, you're right in that movie audiences and the gaming public don't have disparate levels of empathy for non-white and/or non-male characters, but you're wrong in the assumption that movie audiences have more empathy for non-white and/or non-male characters. If you want diversity, head to television.Shamus Young said:
That said, (and I'm not a sociologist), but it seems to me that culture shapes society as much as society shapes culture. So there's no reason to suspect that the introduction of non-white and/or non-male protagonists could eventually shift attitude, if developers were willing to vary it up.
Until then, I think we'll probably have to just hope for more games with custom character creators.
This. So much of this. The thing about the standard C. Sheppard in that poster though is that the whole reason Bioware designed him to look as generic as possible is because they wanted people to make their own versions. So yeah, he may be a grizzled, white, 30 something male, but that's not because he's supposed to be a grizzled, white, 30 something male, it's because he's supposed to be a blank canvas.
In fact, while I'm talking about ME, it would be a good defense against the whole 'relateable protagonist' bollocks to do a survey of how many male gamers enjoy playing as femshep in ME, or any players who make characters that end up looking nothing like themselves. I don't have any solid numbers but I have a feeling that it's more people than the industry can argue with.
I'm white, and yet both my Mass Effect and Skyrim characters are black (although that may just be wish fulfillment, or maybe not seem as my Black Shepard is also Ginger. Yeah, I'm not entirely sure how I managed that either. It certainly wasn't a conscious decision).
In fact, while I'm talking about ME, it would be a good defense against the whole 'relateable protagonist' bollocks to do a survey of how many male gamers enjoy playing as femshep in ME, or any players who make characters that end up looking nothing like themselves. I don't have any solid numbers but I have a feeling that it's more people than the industry can argue with.
I'm white, and yet both my Mass Effect and Skyrim characters are black (although that may just be wish fulfillment, or maybe not seem as my Black Shepard is also Ginger. Yeah, I'm not entirely sure how I managed that either. It certainly wasn't a conscious decision).
Obama actually does identify himself as black [http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=17958438], though.Danceofmasks said:
Who offers the defense that game protagonists are generally white because gamers need a character they can relate to?
I know, how about you accuse *everyone* of being racist! That'll stick it to all those other, ignorant people.Danceofmasks said:
Or make you sound like a pretentious asshole by making broad accusations of racism with the subtle undertone of "...but I know better so I'm *not* racist."
