The red pill movie. A 0?!
- Thread starter Lopende Paddo
- Start date
This is never cleared up for me. Are MRA's and Feminists considered Political Movements or just ideologies?
Because, well I've only ever talked to feminists its always described as Feminism being an ideology that isn't controlled (this is usually a response to my pointing out the inherent transphobia in 2nd wave feminist) but that the MRA is a movement.
Like for something to be a movement doesn't it have to be organized at some level? With local chapters? I think Black Lives Matter these days actually are organized and have a chapters.
As for the documentary getting negative reviews? I mean unless the thing is edited like utter shit (I don't know, I won't be watching unless it hits my streaming services) I imagine it's the reviewers just rating from their own bias's... That comes with the course.
Because, well I've only ever talked to feminists its always described as Feminism being an ideology that isn't controlled (this is usually a response to my pointing out the inherent transphobia in 2nd wave feminist) but that the MRA is a movement.
Like for something to be a movement doesn't it have to be organized at some level? With local chapters? I think Black Lives Matter these days actually are organized and have a chapters.
As for the documentary getting negative reviews? I mean unless the thing is edited like utter shit (I don't know, I won't be watching unless it hits my streaming services) I imagine it's the reviewers just rating from their own bias's... That comes with the course.
jademunky said:
OK, Just compressed the quote under the spoiler tag so the page doesn't get packed.
Your first point, the funding.
"Director Cassie Jaye initially struggled to find financiers who did not have "an agenda."[5] She mostly encountered people who believed the men's rights movement was a "disease that shouldn't be given a fair hearing."[5] Jaye got the film "off the ground" with her own money as well as money from her mother, a co-producer, and her boyfriend.[2] After it became known that the film would not condemn the men's rights movement, Jaye was unable to find funding to cover the cost of the movie from traditional sources.[1][6] She instead started a campaign on the crowdfunding platform Kickstarter, which she called a last resort.[5] The Kickstarter project promised to be a "fair and balanced" look at the men's rights movement.[5] The effort was strongly criticized by some feminists and received support from Breitbart News columnist Milo Yiannopoulos.[7][8] In the end, the campaign exceeded its goal of $97,000 as well as two stretch goals to raise a total of $211,260.[9]"
Seems to me she didn't accept a bribe but started a kickstarter, If you know anything about kickstarter you know that when you fund a kickstarter project your influence in de project is minimal at best and often non existent. You also can't just reclaim your cash under duress. If you have actual proof that she took money under the table than I would be very interested to see it.
Workplace fatalities, I don't remember anyone in the movie saying that the cause of workplace fatalities was feminism. They point at stereotypical roles where in males are more expendable in society than females. This is simply true and has it's origins in the far reaches of evolution, pack survival being a thing of the past they say we might want to reevaluate the roles males play in society.I personally don't see anything anti feminist in the idea. They identify a societal push for woman to avoid these jobs and men to fill them. I happily know a few woman who work in the metal industry (one as a black smith who introduced me to and taught me to work the forge.) but there are not many of them.
I also want to add that often workplace safety standards are enforced but the work itself can often never fully be safe. I used to have a colleague who made an 8 meter fall and had a pallet land on him from the same height, was a certified company and he simple made one mistake after working in the metal industry for years. The moral is that workplace safety never be fully guaranteed in certain professions which happen stance are mostly male dominated. (guy survived by the way but had to rehabilitate for years and now 8 years later he still has a limp when it's cold)
Domestic violence. Just to give my perspective on it, being someone who has been in a relationship with an abusive woman I can say that domestic violence towards men doesn't always come from other men, I believe that very often it is not the case. I believe (not because of this movie but because of my experiences) that woman are more than capable of violence. Obviously the bodily harm, on average will be worse when inflicted by a man (no matter if the victim is male or female) simply because men on average have more physical strength. Furthermore general violence outside a relationship against men (who are often not themselves violent) is often underappreciated when considering the destructive impact it can have over ones feeling of security. People are often against bullying but pretend that bullying stops when someone leaves school. I agree that men and woman who suffer from violence should have more resources made available to them.
Custody, I don't know this of my own direct experience (got a vasectomy) but I do have a good source on the subject, namely my mother. She and my father divorced when I was 8, wasn't a shake hands and walk away friendly divorce. It was shared custody with majority custody for my mother. As far as I was concerned that was fine and moping my father also accepted it. Later in life my mother told me that her divorce lawyer when they first sat down said something like this "Good, now we are going to take your ex for all he has". What he meant was to take away custody, finances (not just child support but insanely high alimony) and try to take as much property as possible. My mother being who she is refused outright but it does show something of the culture that ,in this case, the Dutch legal system has. I know of multiple cases where I was a first hand witness in which I saw custody denied to fathers who were capable and willing. From the cases I have seen in my direct environment every custody battle that went to court was won by the women. I'm talking about family members, colleagues, acquaintances, parents of friends in the past and my own parents (my mom won custody but chose to share it).
Reproductive rights are more than to abort and not to abort, although there are some moral discussions to be had there as well. An example of another reproductive right mentioned in the movie is the right to attain proof of paternity. I personally am pro abortion but more pro vasectomy. A vasectomy protects everyone involved and overpopulation is the root cause of all human problems so it's a win-win-win.
Taking money from white nationalists... As a black man I find it sad to see people trying to further polarize and already polarized issue by making a gender thing a race thing as well. I'ts a ad-homonym and I would like to see less of these without actual proof included.
Circumcision.... IT SHOULD NOT MATTER IF THEY ARE COMPARABLE IT ONLY MATTERS THAT THEY ARE BOTH WRONG AND ABHORRENT. (yes you are supposed to read that as shouting) This kind of thing really pisses me off, you are making light of people cutting a functional piece off of, often, a baby who has no choice in the matter and runs the risk of a lack of sensitivity, erectile dysfunction, severe mutilation of the phallus and sometimes death. The kicker to that is that it is AN ABSOLUTELY UNNECESSARY PROCEDURE 99/100 (if that) TIMES. Sorry for shouting but how can people condone such medieval medicine like idiocy.
Sorry for the long text, kinda got over excited...
So nice to see a couple examples of exactly what I was talking about sneaking in here.
If you point at the term MRA, which stands for men's rights activist/ism and spout shit about them all being anti-woman, you are 100% as bad as the dickheads who say feminists are all man haters.
In your defence I realise you've probably been exposed to a shitload of angry wankers that claim feminists caused all their problems. But in their defence, they've probably come across a number of feminists telling them that their problems aren't important and should be ignored in favour of women's issues.
The only reason men's and women's rights activists come into conflict is because the worst examples of both groups are frequently the most vocal and have the biggest chips on their shoulders. They're the ones turning it from a push to advance their own gender, to pushing down the other.
If you point at the term MRA, which stands for men's rights activist/ism and spout shit about them all being anti-woman, you are 100% as bad as the dickheads who say feminists are all man haters.
In your defence I realise you've probably been exposed to a shitload of angry wankers that claim feminists caused all their problems. But in their defence, they've probably come across a number of feminists telling them that their problems aren't important and should be ignored in favour of women's issues.
The only reason men's and women's rights activists come into conflict is because the worst examples of both groups are frequently the most vocal and have the biggest chips on their shoulders. They're the ones turning it from a push to advance their own gender, to pushing down the other.
I believe the word you where looking for was Egalitarianism. Feminism is equal rights for woman, says so in the name. A feminist can of course be egalitarian but it isn't inherent in the term feminism. Egalitarianism is the best option imho problem is in implementation...Worgen said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egalitarianism
I believe the difference is largely based on semantics. Feminist ideology certainly has a lot of organizing going on behind it. MRM clearly has an ideology. It seems to me people have their own preferences when describing themselves and the groups they are a part of.DudeistBelieve said:
Only movement I have a part in comes knocking every morning.
[LINK]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zXDo4dL7SU[/LINK]
[LINK]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zXDo4dL7SU[/LINK]
Schadrach said:
EDIT: If you don't like the source of the first link, here's the decision in its entirety:http://www.wipo.int/amc/en/domains/search/text.jsp?case=D2016-1234
Looks fair to me:
Like, they voted for it. What more "looking at what they do rather than what they say" do you want?
It's telling that Rep Duncan Hunter is exactly the sort of MRA douchebag I rail against: he brought up the idea that the draft is sexist in committee and proposed making the draft affect everybody. Then the people he thought were going to oppose it...didn't. So he ended up voting against his own amendment, because convictions are for other people.
Post-production was funded on Kickstarter, after more typical funding sources failed her (and after all the footage had already been shot, mind you). Why did more typical funding sources fail her? To hear her tell it, when they found out that it wasn't a hit piece on MRAs they stopped being interested.jademunky said:
Like I said to altnameJag, a lot of them will say that if cornered on the topic, but it's rare to see any do anything about it.jademunky said:
Generally women are disproportionately given custody up front unless there's a damn good reason she shouldn't have custody. Generally, if either parent fights a custody decision it will more often than not be adjusted in their favor. Here's the thing that gets ignored : the people fighting custody decisions are 1) self-selecting, 2) aware of their odds, and 3) do not possess unlimited means. One of the things that leads to is not challenging in the first place unless you have a good chance of winning.jademunky said:
If you'd like a different way to think about it, ask yourself this: is consent to sex consent to support any offspring conceived? The answer as it stands is of course "no" for women (hence women being able to abort, adopt, or safe-haven abandon without anyone else necessarily being involved in the choice) and "yes, even if you didn't consent to the sex or were lied to about paternity, unless the mother doesn't want the child" for men.jademunky said:
I keep hoping some clever and unwilling father will abscond with his child from the maternity ward, take it down to the emergency room and safe-haven it just so we can see how equally those laws apply. I suspect he'd still hold legal responsibility to the child and also be arrested for kidnapping, but it would be an interesting case.
She ran a Kickstarter campaign. Crowdfunding from whosoever might decide throwing her some money is worthwhile. No one doing so had any creative control over the film. Saying "took money from anyone willing with a Kickstarter account" would be a lot more honest than "took money from white nationalists", but not as useful to your intended narrative. She also did the rounds with media promoting her (which yes, did include Breitbart), which is not terribly surprising.jademunky said:
Did you know the team behind the game Valdis Story: Abyssal City (an *excellent* metroidvania title) took money from MRAs? I'm not even kidding, I know a couple of people who are MRAs and also happened to back that game because they like that type of game. Hell, I'd be surprised if there was anything on Kickstarter that *wasn't* backed by someone who you could deem some kind of evil, so long as you look closely enough.
Also, propaganda film? Is that your default position on any film about MRAs that isn't a hit piece? It's funny, I expect you'd feel the same way about a movie about feminism that took the same approaches most media does when dealing with MRAs.
I don't know, both are practices that have origins in a mix of religion and controlling sexuality that are largely carried forth nowadays out of the sheer inertia of tradition.jademunky said:
Unless you meant in terms of what's done surgically, in which case you'd be right although there's a bit of legerdemain done with FGM statistics that's worth pointing out. Effort is made to get the image of FGM in people's minds to be infibulation (complete removal of the clitoris and labia, sealing up the hole leaving only a small opening to urinate and menstruate through) sometimes also called pharaonic circumcision, despite it being one of the less common forms of FGM (~9%) while including all varieties of FGM in the statistic of how often it happens. It would be like if I were to oppose male genital cutting by talking about penile subincision and bifurcation to make a point of how extreme it cam be, but then used numbers that include circumcision when talking about how often it happens.
I still find it ridiculous that "let's not do irreversible genital surgery on people too young to consent without good medical reasons" is such a damn controversial position. Especially since even in clean modern US hospitals we still manage to kill ~
There was a notice linking the site to AVfM from the point they brought up their white ribbon site, I actually checked Wayback. It went through a few permutations before the exact language I quoted, but it always explicitly linked the site to AVfM. Dunno why I'm wasting the words, I'd already said that it was scummy.altnameJag said:
As an aside, I saw you linked WeHuntedTheMammoth. How are the quote mines treating David Futrelle these days, or has he just fully switched over to #ResistTrump full time?
They voted for a military appropriations bill that had that glued to it -- which essentially means that they figured "will force our daughters to war, maybe, theoretically, in the future" would play better than "unwilling to properly equip our troops, vaguely responsible for dead soldiers." Especially since it could be omitted from the House version of the bill and dropped in the final version that gets the two in line. Y'know, like it was.altnameJag said:
I would have thought you would be all about people doing things "to start a conversation." He really picked the wrong way to do it if he wanted opposition though -- no one in Senate is going to drop a military appropriations bill over a social issue, when the House can simply remove it and then have the compromise bill not include it. It wouldn't be wildly different than KY Rep. Mary Lou Marzian's bill requiring a wife's permission to buy Viagra, if she'd tacked it as an amendment to the state's budget rather than as a freestanding bill.altnameJag said:
I don't know what more you want then. The amendment that passed committee met both of the conditions you yourself laid out. If wasn't opposed, and was in fact supported, by feminists. It would've placed the same onus and restrictions on women that men currently have.Schadrach said:
How much more do they need to do?
I'm not saying she took money under the table but she did take money and I consider it really naive to think that both sides wouldn't achieve an understanding on how that money was to be used. Even without any direct instructions.Lopende Paddo said:
All this is a great case for more feminism. Encourage women to get into those fields! (not you personally, but, yknow, all of us collectively)
Yeah, this is an issue very close to home for me. I'm only weeks away from finally being legally divorced after an 8-year marriage that slowly turned violent and abusive for me. I agree that society in general has some fairly hideous views when it comes to male victims of domestic abuse but once again, it is not the feminists who are telling men to stop being crybabies and "man up." I wonder how things would've turned out for me if, instead of selling the house, splitting our assets and going our seperate ways, I instead decided to assert my "masculinity" and celebrate "bash a violent ***** month" the way the subject of the documentary advocates.
Incidently, "Bash a violent ***** month" (and the incredibly violent imagery contained on the forum) is something the film allegedly omits entirely. This is kinda like if someone wrote a biography of Bill Clinton and left out the part about his affairs.
Well, yes, but I think this is getting off-track. I just use a condom and thus far, my success rate in non-impregnation is 100%.
Dude, its Breitbart. When you take money from an organization that was created because it's founder believed that the first black head-of-state in his country was some sort of African Manchurian candidate, doubt about your objectivity should be the default.
No worries about the shouting but if you noticed, I did say that both should be illegal. I do, however, think some perspective is in order: Male circumcision is just not used as a tool of oppression the way female circumcision is. It also does not render the man incapable of experiencing any enjoyment from sex (although it does tend to reduce sensitivity so fuck that).
Thanks for your awesome informative and objective input.You, shrekfan246, should be celebrated throughout history for your outstanding contribution to civil discourse.shrekfan246 said:
Not trying to objectively contribute.Lopende Paddo said:
In the past four years I've only ever seen one self-described MRA who didn't turn out to be a raging woman-hater, and I'm not speaking just from confirmation bias, I've seen their subreddits and Youtube videos and even been face-to-face with a few; I'm pulling my opinion from the things that they say to each other when they believe they don't need to clean up their language. I don't believe that anyone associated with the internet branding of "Men's Rights" or "Red Pill" or any of the other various acronym soup "movements" deserves to be treated with an ounce of respect, because they have shown repeatedly and consistently that they will do everything in their power to shout down and stamp out everyone they don't like. I'm sick and tired of being told that because I'm "progressive" I need to be tolerant of their intolerant bullshit. I'm sick and tired of hearing the "but both sides!!!" false equivalence shtick. I'm sick and tired of ignorant fucks who wouldn't know how to read a source if their lives literally depended on it actually pulling out sources that refute their claims as if they're defending their positions. I'm sick and tired of the circular arguments about how ignoring the rights of trans people is all for their "protection". I'm sick and tired of people holding up "feminist" strawmen as if they actually know a single damn thing about what they're trying to attack, when they then go on to admit or at least imply that they don't actually pay attention to actual feminists but get all of their information from other people who whinge about feminists. And I'm sick and tired of the fact that I can't go a day on this website anymore without seeing yet another thread where someone is complaining about "SJWs" or something related to that subject.
So hey, you want my opinion of the Red Pill documentary? I'm never going to watch it, because a good chunk of its funding was provided by the people who were the subject of the film, and because the likes of Mike Cernovich, Milo Yiannopoulos, and Paul Elam don't deserve any platform on which to speak their harmful, ignorant bile, and I'm not going to support anything which either directly or indirectly supports them.
I brought the popcorn, but was disappointed to find this projector does not show film...shrekfan246 said:
Can I be number two?shrekfan246 said:
I suspect you may have spoken to more people who support men's rights, and neither do I think shitposters are a good representation of any movements, like, any of em, at all, feminism would be in a sore spot if that were the case.
SO HEY, tell ya what, what are you left with if you leave the politics, smear campaigns and personal grudges out of these issues? what are you left with?
Problems.
I work at a psychotherapy clinic as an intern as part of my nursing course, it's my job to support and assist the therapist I work under and I have regular interactions with the clients, I have seen the devastation caused by having everything taken from you by a spiteful spouse, or the gaze of a man that thinks of his existence as entirely disposable, as good as the next man that comes along.
Whatever issues men do face, it is suicide and depression that I deal with on a daily basis and I think needs to be addressed, I don't give a damn who says what, I look at what it is that is said, the mouthpiece is irrelevant.
I'm sure you care about social issues, you wouldn't involve yourself if you didn't, but I would urge you to look at the problems and the people it affects, listen to them, think about what they say without judgement or condemnation.
Problems are there to be solved, not condemned, if you can not move past your own little hang ups and hatreds, I don't think you are ready for the conversation.
PS, regarding the funding, you do know how Kickstarter works, right?
Thing is, the number of "shitposters" who stick up for Men's Rights far outnumber the number who give feminism a bad name.Combustion Kevin said:
And you'll never see me, or any truly intersectional feminist for that matter, claim that men don't face specific gendered problems that need to be worked on.
You know who do absolutely nothing to work toward fixing those problems, and in fact actually just reinforce the ideas that create those problems in the first place? MRAs. At least, as they exist as a "movement" on the internet. You know how feminists are always talking about "toxic masculinity", that thing that makes MRAs and RedPillers and all associates utterly lose their shit? Yeah, changing the fundamental ideals in society that create toxic masculinity would directly address basically every problem that MRAs purport to be fighting against in the first place.
I do. I also know that regardless of being crowdfunded, it's still difficult to remain impartial when you're receiving part of your funding from the subject of your piece, especially when you're giving a producer's credit to one of the people involved because they gave you $10,000.
(Insert line about how Mike Cernovich "isn't an MRA" here, which, sure, he doesn't care about men's issues, but then neither do most internet MRAs so there isn't really any difference. And yes, you are right that I have "little hang ups"--I've got a lot of experience dealing with internet MRAs.)
I watched this just the other day actually. I can't judge a documentary on the same stick as I would a normal movie. I also was not able to thoroughly fact check everything. Before I go into my opinion on the movie and it's subject i will first rant about the modern documentary. In short the overwhelming majority of what gets pissed out as documentaries right now are opinion affirming trash pieces about everything from ancient aliens to "all of our food is being poisoned and we need to revert back to a pre industrial civilization food model if we don't want to all die of cancer." The formula for these pieces is always the same. Out of context statistics which do not bear up under even a modicum of critical thinking, only interviewing the nuttier of the opposing viewpoint (nearly all docs have always been agenda pushing but it's out of fucking control now) and only presenting the strongest of supporting arguments. Loads of opinion sprinkled through from the narrator.
Now if you are still with me, the Red Pill shows very few of those above tricks. Well Ok, Chanty Binx the notorious ***** who got her infamy by screaming into the faces of MRAs who were ousted from a meeting by an illegally pulled fire alarm to "shut the fuck up." got a lot of screen time. But the more light that is shown on the activities of her type the better. I'm not part of the MRA movement by any stretch but I have made a point of being informed about it. I learned things. This movies does not shit on the feminist movement. it's shits on the extremists. It makes a point that if both the MRAs and the feminists were not at loggerheads they would see that they should be after the same thing. But it also incontrovertibly shows that they are not.
To be clear, as long as the Deluth model is used as a law enforcement standard for domestic abuse, as long as men have significantly fewer legal options on child custody than women, as long as there are 6 times the discrepancy between the sentences of men v women than there are between blacks and whites...well equality is very far away indeed.
If I was to rate this, it would be 7/10. There was some agenda pushing and some of the info did not pass the smell check but it was far more factual than not. It would have been better if it acknowledges the existence of the more toxic side of the MRA community like Roosh V but this is a movie that should be seen even if you don't agree with the movement. Not having both sides and living in an echo chamber is not at all helpful as the filmmaker herself learned.
Now if you are still with me, the Red Pill shows very few of those above tricks. Well Ok, Chanty Binx the notorious ***** who got her infamy by screaming into the faces of MRAs who were ousted from a meeting by an illegally pulled fire alarm to "shut the fuck up." got a lot of screen time. But the more light that is shown on the activities of her type the better. I'm not part of the MRA movement by any stretch but I have made a point of being informed about it. I learned things. This movies does not shit on the feminist movement. it's shits on the extremists. It makes a point that if both the MRAs and the feminists were not at loggerheads they would see that they should be after the same thing. But it also incontrovertibly shows that they are not.
To be clear, as long as the Deluth model is used as a law enforcement standard for domestic abuse, as long as men have significantly fewer legal options on child custody than women, as long as there are 6 times the discrepancy between the sentences of men v women than there are between blacks and whites...well equality is very far away indeed.
If I was to rate this, it would be 7/10. There was some agenda pushing and some of the info did not pass the smell check but it was far more factual than not. It would have been better if it acknowledges the existence of the more toxic side of the MRA community like Roosh V but this is a movie that should be seen even if you don't agree with the movement. Not having both sides and living in an echo chamber is not at all helpful as the filmmaker herself learned.
First off thanks for weighing in and explaining your point of view, now that you've explained your stance please disregard my previous (passive aggressive) post.shrekfan246 said:
I understand where you're coming from because I also see the woman hating going on in some very loud parts of the men's rights movement and I find that Elam's site is often tactless and the language used on it often seems counterproductive to me. That there is a large and very toxic element to the MRM is obvious but I think this is apparent in a lot of activist movements these days. I believe this is because a lot of the new (and old) movements exist, for a part, in echo chambers where all opposing views and ideas are shouted down or drowned out.
I have no quarrels with feminism but I do have a problem with the type of feminist that is not open to conversation and instead of solving problems just tries to be the loudest person in town. I have the same view on eg. Black life matters and the Men's rights movement. First and foremost because a lot of the problems brought up by these movements are real and need to be dealt with and the "we life in an echo chamber and fuck everyone else" stance is counterproductive to solving these problems and misrepresents the movements actual dreams, goals and ideas. The sad thing is that the toxic elements in all these movements are over represented, creating the idea that you can't adhere to the philosophy of any movement without condoning the worst elements of it.
I'm not a fan of this Elam guy and, from what I have read on his site, I won't become one. However, I do think that what the MRM as a whole says has some merit to it. There are societal issues in the west that effect men that are under acknowledged. Same for BLM and the feminist movement. I would like to see ALL these problems addressed and brought into a wider perspective of social egalitarianism.
Funny enough the LGBT movement is probably the most egalitarian of all movements mentioned. As far as I have seen the movement exists purely to obtain equal rights and further their quality of life, without distributing blame, with little to no extremist elements. Also the movement is composed of people from the demographics of all other movements I mentioned, that makes it pretty damn special.
I would like to see all these movements combining effort under an Egalitarian mindset. The structure I would like to see is an Egalitarian organization with these movements as organs of the same whole, bringing them into contact with each other in a non adversarial way and opening the door for a mutual understanding to be formed. If this could be achieved I believe all now separate parties would become stronger and we could as human beings achieve much more than if we exist in a constant state of conflict.
I also want to note that SJW wasn't mentioned by anyone in this tread before your post and I hope it won't be mentioned again after mine.
Let's not let any extremist, no matter what their stance is, kill a conversation that can be beneficial for humanity as a whole. I truly believe that the social upheaval of our current times can lead to great changes for us all if we keep listening to each other and keep thinking about what is being said instead of dismissing it without a second thought. We need to rid ourselves of our knee jerk reactions and work towards a better world for all.
thanks for your review, I actually agree with everything you said about the movie and I'm happy I was not insane when I saw the zero score and was like this:jklinders said:
Reviews are nothing more than informed opinions. Sometimes opinions are informed by biases that are not acknowledged. There is literally no objective review and this movie will not get enough screens to get massive attention from the mainstream review press.Lopende Paddo said:
Mainly I'm disappointed in those who say things like, "I haven't seen this, but I'm sure it's shit." Well thanks for that useless contribution. Isn't that the exact fucking problem we have? Everyone is just yelling and no one is listening?
Anyway, I don't ID as an MRA, or a feminist. I'm an egalitarian. And no, I will not be told by anyone that to be a feminist is to be an egalitarian. there are too many feminists pushing for the continuance of sentencing, family court and domestic abuse disparities and "no true Scotsman arguments" are not welcome with me so I don't want to hear about "that's not true feminism," or "it's not a true MRA." I never heard of an egalitarian pushing for inequality because that is linguistically impossible. MRAs and feminists both cannot make that claim.