The Review Section

[Hey Joe]

Go back and look at the first sentence of the review.

Ooh, so you respect a bunch of reviewers, and you're excited about a bunch of other reviewers? Too bad you completely override that by shitting upon the huddled masses of the Review Section for the rest of... 14-odd paragraphs.

Oh, you're from Perth. It all makes sense now. I'll just leave.

Listen, you're more than welcome to write a counterpoint review and, I encourage you to do so. However, making cracks about an entire city for...some reason (Seriously, what's the inference?) is just poor form.

 

[hypothetical fact]

I find myself wishing some reviews would get more comments when that review is genuinely, you know, good, but is getting ignored in favor of the MGG-esque stuff.

As someone who is trying very hard to get back into writing after spending 4 years in the doldrums, this is possibly the worst thing that can happen to a writer. Constructive feedback is hard enough to come by as it is! It's good to see that this is being recognised by established writers like yourselves.. but alas I fear that the Internet is a medium which can try the patience of anybody. The quest for constructive feedback is recuded to trawling through piles of pointless comments to get to read one from somebody who actually WANTS to help you become a better writer or congratulate you on a good piece.

I think part of the problem is that gaming is such a polarized medium. There are "sides" and I think a lot of people feel they must pick a side otherwise they will be outcasts. In their haste they don't actually stop to think rationally about WHY they like what they like, and as such when they try to review their favourite games/movies/whatnot they don't have anything to draw on except "It's awesome, better than xxxx". Passion in work is fine but gaming brings out the worst in people's opinions in the way that music does, as well as some of the best.

In the end you can't stop people from doing what they do, but it at least you can try to focus on people who care not only about their own work but about games in general.

If you want feedback then stop over writing. Nobody says "haste or alas" so when you read it in someone's work they either come off as unrelatable or pretentious.

 

[Hey Joe]

Don't be mean to the Joe: he has written several great reviews.

However, Joe: this piece was spent ranting on how there have been a mass of bad reviews of late. Granted, this is the truth, but that's the price we pay for attracting higher numbers of users these days. All we can do is try to prune the bush and give out proper criticism.

Your heart was in the right place here Joe, but your method is a bit flawed. You attract more flies with honey than with vinegar.

I've tried to be nice to people for about a year and a half, we've been nice and not come down hard on those who put no effort into their reviews and yet here we are with an increasing number of reviews with no thought behind them. I can see what you're saying, but I've had enough. At some point, you have to tell it like it is.

 

[hypothetical fact]

Go back and look at the first sentence of the review.

Ooh, so you respect a bunch of reviewers, and you're excited about a bunch of other reviewers? Too bad you completely override that by shitting upon the huddled masses of the Review Section for the rest of... 14-odd paragraphs.

Oh, you're from Perth. It all makes sense now. I'll just leave.

Listen, you're more than welcome to write a counterpoint review and, I encourage you to do so. However, making cracks about an entire city for...some reason (Seriously, what's the inference?) is just poor form.

Joe, madbird here is teaching you a valuable lesson about leading a horse to water. Nobody will read this thing tomorrow and since the community expects short reviews giving them any more just bores them. It might be easier for you to put their work under criticism when there is more to judge but if they are serious about reviewing and can't figure that out, the dream is dead before it gets off the ground.

 

[mjhhiv]

Why do people feel the need to review the reviewer? We aren't professionals in any sense so why should we be treated like such?

I know that I don't write reviews to be professional. I do it to get a point across, whether or not I like a game and would recommend, but most importantly, I do it because I enjoy it.

This is a good answer, really:

I find myself wishing some reviews would get more comments when that review is genuinely, you know, good, but is getting ignored in favor of the MGG-esque stuff.

As someone who is trying very hard to get back into writing after spending 4 years in the doldrums, this is possibly the worst thing that can happen to a writer. Constructive feedback is hard enough to come by as it is! It's good to see that this is being recognised by established writers like yourselves.. but alas I fear that the Internet is a medium which can try the patience of anybody. The quest for constructive feedback is recuded to trawling through piles of pointless comments to get to read one from somebody who actually WANTS to help you become a better writer or congratulate you on a good piece.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with writing reviews for yourself, and not caring what other people think of it so long as you're polite about it and such. In fact, that almost seems more... "noble" than writing to trying and get reactions. However, a lot of people (myself included) write solely to get some sort of constructive feedback for any other writing they may do. I don't think there's anything wrong with either. Maybe you should preface your reviews with "I don't want criticism, just talk about the game. Thanks!" if you really hate it.

There is a difference between trying to helpfully criticize, and criticizing just to make yourself feel all big and mighty, which I think is what I've been seeing more and more lately. That's what really bothers me, and I think that's what you've been running into, MrBrightside919. Then again, trying to help someone usually seems a bit condescending. It's a fine line, but I've always thought it was really cool that the Escapist was so open about trying to help people.

 

[Hey Joe]

This review is not about getting hits or comments. This review is about giving my opinion about a particular subject by making valid points across a particular set of areas. I can't really attack short and poorly considered reviews by writing one myself...kind of defeats the purpose.

 

[scotth266]

What he said. Also, I think it's bees, not flies, but well said all the same.

While bees would make more sense, the saying is flies. No idea why though

I've tried to be nice to people for about a year and a half, we've been nice and not come down hard on those who put no effort into their reviews and yet here we are with an increasing number of reviews with no thought behind them. I can see what you're saying, but I've had enough. At some point, you have to tell it like it is.

If you're talking about repeat offenders, that's something to complain about. People who ignore criticism to make terrible reviews over and over again should make people mad. However: newbies to the section don't deserve this kind of treatment: they need a guiding hand to become better at what they do.I mean, look at how far I've come compared to my first review [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/326.102291], eh?

 

[Maet]

What he said. Also, I think it's bees, not flies, but well said all the same.

While bees would make more sense, the saying is flies. No idea why though

I've tried to be nice to people for about a year and a half, we've been nice and not come down hard on those who put no effort into their reviews and yet here we are with an increasing number of reviews with no thought behind them. I can see what you're saying, but I've had enough. At some point, you have to tell it like it is.

If you're talking about repeat offenders, that's something to complain about. People who ignore criticism to make terrible reviews over and over again should make people mad. However: newbies to the section don't deserve this kind of treatment: they need a guiding hand to become better at what they do.I mean, look at how far I've come compared to my first review [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/326.102291], eh?

Well I think bees would only be attracted to the honey from their own hive and not just honey in general. The average fly is always attracted to sweetness, so I suppose that's why the saying is the way it is.

Slightly back on topic, I myself have always been a firm believer that practice makes perfect. A little guidance and effort can make a world of difference. 34 movie and 5 video game reviews later (amongst other projects), I still think I'm getting better. Personally, if I look back on a review I wrote months ago and feel completely satisfied with it, then I must be doing something wrong.

 

[MrBrightside919]

Why do people feel the need to review the reviewer? We aren't professionals in any sense so why should we be treated like such?

I know that I don't write reviews to be professional. I do it to get a point across, whether or not I like a game and would recommend, but most importantly, I do it because I enjoy it.

This is a good answer, really:

There is absolutely nothing wrong with writing reviews for yourself, and not caring what other people think of it so long as you're polite about it and such. In fact, that almost seems more... "noble" than writing to trying and get reactions. However, a lot of people (myself included) write solely to get some sort of constructive feedback for any other writing they may do. I don't think there's anything wrong with either. Maybe you should preface your reviews with "I don't want criticism, just talk about the game. Thanks!" if you really hate it.

There is a difference between trying to helpfully criticize, and criticizing just to make yourself feel all big and mighty, which I think is what I've been seeing more and more lately. That's what really bothers me, and I think that's what you've been running into, MrBrightside919. Then again, trying to help someone usually seems a bit condescending. It's a fine line, but I've always thought it was really cool that the Escapist was so open about trying to help people.

Honestly, i've never had a problem with people being overly blunt with their opinions. It really only happens when I write about a game that has left me unimpressed (RE5 and Killzone 2). I'll admit, my Killzone 2 review wasn't that great (it was rushed), but it didn't need the kinds of responses it got from people (which i'm over and moving on, leaving them behind me). Me acting like a douche towards them didn't help either because more and more people just joined in. I usually don't rush through a review like I did with Killzone (I guess I just wanted to get my opinion out there too quickly).

I think those people were just doing it to be funny (i'm thinking of a certain response I got that literally went through my entire review and told me what was wrong with it, in a very unfunny way).

I like sharing my opinion with others. It's what drives me to do these reviews.

I've been writing reviews for a while now (probably over a year and a half atleast...I couldn't tell you what my first review was because I don't remember) and i've improved GREATLY thanks to some GREAT advice I was given by some GREAT people (both here on The Escapist and other places i've been). My style has changed drastically from what it once was and it is definitely NOT because of people coming down hard on me. Not everyone responds to "tough love" like you would think they will.

Believe me when I say that very few people will get better when you slam your fist down upon their heads. A little constructive criticism can go a very long way. I'm not saying that you should be overly soft on people, just watch what you say. I'm not saying Joe is wrong by writing his review of reviewers either. He is completely entitled to his opinions, even if I don't really agree with him.

Speech over

Here are some reviews i've done recently (this is not a review advertisment, i'm not forcing you to read them). I'll let you all judge them accordingly...

Sonic's Ultimate Genesis Collection
[link]http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/326.115557[/link]

Resident Evil 5
[link]http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/326.112006[/link]

Playstation 3 Review
[link]http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/326.81646?page=1[/link]

Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots
[link]http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/326.82195[/link]

 

[MrBrightside919]

I really need to go back and find my very first review. Now i'm really curious to see what it was...

EDIT- I think I found it...

No More Heroes
[link]http://g1critics.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=videogames&action=display&thread=14[/link]

 

[pigeon_of_doom]

I'm one of the new reviewers, but I do actually share that concern with the issues stated in the OP. I tend to just ignore ill thought out, inflammatory reviews and just read ones that at least make an effort at giving a reasoned opinion. The brevity of many reviews is rather disappointing for people who can tolerate the dreaded 'walls of text', a fairly long review I wrote got only one comment claiming to have actually read it, others seeming to be intimidated by the length. Seeing as everyone else is posting links, here [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/326.111525] is the review if anyone wants to see if it being nearly 1,500 words was completely unreasonable, as I never did get any feedback on it.

As for humour? Personally, I haven't tried it yet, as I haven't found a way to incorporate my extremely dry sense of humour into the reviews, although hopefully I can work out a style eventually. You raise a good point about the use of Yahtzee-style humour in a text only format, sadly I don't think many of the people contributing to the trends you mention will read this thread.

This is still the best user review community I have come across on the internet(not quite as impressive an accolade as it should be). The trends in the OP aren't that widespread yet, to my knowledge. Just curious, but was this thread's genesis provoked by the recent Mass Effect argument between obliviam1 and Oddyssey? (I'm not usually one to mention names, but I couldn't find a way to concisely refer to the incident without sounding bitchy)

 

[StarStruckStrumpets]

Why do people feel the need to review the reviewer? We aren't professionals in any sense so why should we be treated like such?

I know that I don't write reviews to be professional. I do it to get a point across, whether or not I like a game and would recommend, but most importantly, I do it because I enjoy it.

I wouldn't know whether or not people consider me a good reviewer because I have my good/bad reviews. Frankly, I don't think I would want to know.

I like reviewing games and i'll keep doing it, whether they are liked or not. I'll keep reviewing games whether they get 2 hits or 2000 hits.

Your first two sentences sum up my thoughts.

 

[Hey Joe]

. Just curious, but was this thread's genesis provoked by the recent Mass Effect argument between obliviam1 and Oddyssey? (I'm not usually one to mention names, but I couldn't find a way to concisely refer to the incident without sounding bitchy)

No, just observations over the last three months. That...thing didn't help though.

As for questions raised about the validity of reviewing the reviewer, if you're contributing to a public forum you are putting your name and your thoughts out there for the public to read, regardless of your 'professional' or 'non-professional' status. If you don't want to be criticised, just don't review. Simple, really.

 

[Stegofreak]

One thing I would add to the original post is that people really need to play a game properly. I've read one or two reviews that started with "just got this today" and you know they've only really played the game for an hour or two. When I wrote my Killzone 2 review (not posted on this site unfortunatly) I had completed the game twice and played well over two days of online play. While I don't expect everyone to be that dedicated to a review, it would be nice if you reviewed a game after getting through 75%+ of it.

And don't be controversal for the sake of it. I wrote a review of GTAIV way back when (again, not on here) in which I made a few negative points which caused a bit of discussion. Once the hype died down people started to acknowlegde my points for what they are. What I'm saying is that if you've something negative to say, make it reasonable and back it up.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm on the second island of inFamous and am dying to review it.

 

[PurpleRain]

Well, I liked the review Joe. Summed up most of my feelings in a more garrulous manner. As for the humour part, I feel it generally comes down to who's using it. I tend to base my reviews on humour, but not the same as Yahtzee who you keep brining up (I know for the purpose of all those people that do copy him). Some people got it, others are probably better off finding a new method to surround their style.

Why do people feel the need to review the reviewer? We aren't professionals in any sense so why should we be treated like such?

I know that I don't write reviews to be professional. I do it to get a point across, whether or not I like a game and would recommend, but most importantly, I do it because I enjoy it.

I wouldn't know whether or not people consider me a good reviewer because I have my good/bad reviews. Frankly, I don't think I would want to know.

I like reviewing games and i'll keep doing it, whether they are liked or not. I'll keep reviewing games whether they get 2 hits or 2000 hits.

I sort of see posting a review here too gain critism. So people can look at your writing and work and teach you how to better yourself at it. Before anyway talks about the abuse that gets thrown around, it's generally because there hasn't been a lot of time or work that has gone into the review. I doubt people hear really care about the games and more so the reviews itself. Being a gaming forum, most games have already been played out and they want to see what another person has to say on it.

 

[Pimppeter2]

@ OP: While reading this thread I immagined your voice gritty and soft. Like an italian mafia boss. I don't know why

You rise some good points. Reviews I've made aren't the best on the site, but then agian I should stick to writting fiction

 

[Say Anything]

People, to be blunt, have become comment whores. The desired end result of reviewers seems to be comments. It's as if their worth as a reviewer is dependant of a numerical value of little to no significance.

In a way, this, but I feel it's more than just a bickering troll arguing with his critics. A lot of people on this forum feel the need to take a new game (at the time, Gears of War 2, Halo 3, Resident Evil 4, to name a few) that they got practically last night and let everyone know their opinions.

There are two things wrong with that. One, as Hey Joe has put it, these people are being "comment whores". They want attention, they want people to notice them, and if it's a new game that has been getting a lot of criticism, they'll "Yahtzee-ize" it and hate everything about it to get some supporters. If it's the next big thing in a box since seal blubber [http://www.andrill.org/iceberg/blogs/betty/images/img_2157.jpg], they'll quickly make a post to inform everyone on the Escapist that you're not one of the cool kids if you don't go out and buy this game immediately.

Two, these people review the game before they've finished it. Sometimes, they've only played a couple of hours in it, or, on some rare occcasions, may have not touched the game at all. You should never review a game you haven't finished, and if you do, you should have a damn good idea of what to say in your review.

Hopefully, people see what I'm getting at. If you don't, just wait until something such as Bioshock 2 or God of War 3 comes out, and you'll understand.

Since I always think about myself first, I've forgotten to say, "Good job, Hey Joe," as this was a good piece. Paranoia is a *****, and these things aren't healthy for my...health...but it's a good "listen up" for everyone on this forum, and while it can't provide a new revolution for the Review Corner of the Escapist forums, it can only give positives.

EDIT: Okay, so Joeseph is getting a bad wrap for asking for some change. Really, now? Honestly? Someone writes a "review" (not sure if I'd really call this that, but article seems too business-like and...now I'm rambling, aren't I?) discussing negative changes he's seen over the seasons as a plea, saying, "Please take more time to plan out your reviews. Make them into something people will want to read, make them interesting; you'll be reviewing things for the sake of reviewing them, not to feed your e-penis." What's the bad criticism for? I don't get it.

FINAL EDIT: One last thing. (On somewhat of a different topic...) I've discussed it with a few reviewers on the Escapist, and, for the most part, they all seem to agree. Can people stop commenting on a review to tell the reviewer whether or not they like the game? Write your own God damn review if you want to tell others your opinion on the game. Comments in the Review section should be discussing how they felt about different parts of the review. If you want to discuss the game itsself, either make a topic in the General Gaming Discussion category or make your own review. Quit ignoring my talent to tell me Super Mario World is a good game, damn it! haha

 

[scotth266]

EDIT: Okay, so Joeseph is getting a bad wrap for asking for some change. Really, now? Honestly? Someone writes a "review" (not sure if I'd really call this that, but article seems too business-like and...now I'm rambling, aren't I?) discussing negative changes he's seen over the seasons as a plea, saying, "Please take more time to plan out your reviews. Make them into something people will want to read, make them interesting; you'll be reviewing things for the sake of reviewing them, not to feed your e-penis." What's the bad criticism for? I don't get it.

I gave him negative criticism not for his message but for his method of delivery. NewClassic mad a similar thread about the OT section, and I praised it, because it felt less like a admonishment or order and more like a recommendation or a plea. The execution of this thread is more the issue than what it discusses: I actually agree with him that there's been a flood of downright bad reviews of late.

 

[Tech Team FTW!]

Recommendation: Don't buy it

This seems a little hypocritical considering that you just contributed to it, thereby making you part of the problem.

All you have done is give a verbose rant about a lack of depth in your peers' reviews.
Overall, your review quickly becomes droll and repetitive, devoting no less than eight paragraphs to your desire for more "depth", an alarming 168 words to poor spelling, and another four paragraphs to your belief that every reviewer is, by default, trying to be Ben Croshaw. You only brought up the aforementioned three points, indicating a lack of depth and insight into an issue you clearly feel strongly about.

Verbosity is not synonymous with good content.

To most rational, forward thinking people, spelling is very important as it indicates the reviewer has actually taken the time out to make sure their I's are dotted and their T's are crossed.

So, rational people want their I is and T is to be crossed?

Perhaps you ought to look up the definition of contraction before committing such a grammatical faux pas while chastising poor spelling.

That said I am not defending anyone who posts reviews in this forum. Their work should do that by its own merits and if it fails, it fails.