The Rise of Invisible Stalker
- Thread starter Encaen
- Start date
Haha, you lost me at 'Blue Black Control Build' actually - although Google is my friend and I've now worked out what you mean!Encaen said:
I've watched Magic being played, and am quite interested, but am a complete novice when it comes to more than just the very very basic rules. I enjoy reading these types of tactical discussions about any game (and often the tactics are transferable), but I don't have much of a frame of reference to decipher terms with in this case. Would it be possible to include more explanatory asides or hyperlinks to definitions in the articles?
A general newcomers guide would be appreciated too
Can you explain exactly how the Opalescence + Parallax Wave/Tide combo works? I know how the whole thing performs- and I abuse it in my EDH deck- I'm just really really poor at explaining the rules behind it.
For reference Opalescence [http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Opalescence&v=card&s=cname], Parallax Wave [http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Parallax+wave&v=card&s=cname], Parallax Tide [http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Parallax+tide&v=card&s=cname].
Also, I'm loving the hell out of Thalia with my group right now. They all love playing Solar Flare. As of now, I drop Thalia and they're pissed, because I usually follow up on t3 with Grand Abolisher.
For reference Opalescence [http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Opalescence&v=card&s=cname], Parallax Wave [http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Parallax+wave&v=card&s=cname], Parallax Tide [http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Parallax+tide&v=card&s=cname].
Also, I'm loving the hell out of Thalia with my group right now. They all love playing Solar Flare. As of now, I drop Thalia and they're pissed, because I usually follow up on t3 with Grand Abolisher.
Invisible stalker is more obscene than blighted agent. Blighted agent can be targeted. Most colors have a way of dealing with him after he's in play, even if it's not a good one.Mahorfeus said:
White - Day of Judgement, life gain, artifact removal, prevent combat damange
Green - Artifact removal and life gain, prevent combat damage
Red - Blasphemous Act
Blue - Counter it
Black - Curse of Death's Hold, Geth's Verdict
Of course, there are other more complicated(or outside of standard) ways. The reason I mentioned artifact removal and life gain is because the combination of the two are typically what makes it dangerous. If you gain more life per turn than it does in damage, it's not that dangerous.
Nevermore tends to slow down future attempts at Invisible Stalkers, provided you can get rid of the first one.
So... my illusion deck was transformed into a Delver Deck, then I realized I have two swords of body and mind, and a rune pike that were going unused... so then my Delver deck transformed into a Mage-blade deck.
That being said... I am so happy the invisible stalker is finally seeing some play. That was my "I love this card and want to make it work" card for last set.
My "iltcawtmiw" card for THIS set is tragic slip (wont be hard... card is pretty beast), undying evil and Rootbound geist
I bought a Box and it was very loving to me. I pulled 8 mythics and the money rare.
Sorin
Huntmaster
Foil Huntermaster
Lich
Demon dagger
Vorpede (Got the vorpede and the Demon Dagger out of the same pack! Go go double mythic pack! Didn't beat my friend's Double mythic Sorin, huntmaster pack though)
Mind control ***** blue mythic
Dragon
And my MVP honorable mention was a foil Drogskol Captain. That card just looks amazing.
The money rare is the Grafdigger's Cage
That being said... I am so happy the invisible stalker is finally seeing some play. That was my "I love this card and want to make it work" card for last set.
My "iltcawtmiw" card for THIS set is tragic slip (wont be hard... card is pretty beast), undying evil and Rootbound geist
I bought a Box and it was very loving to me. I pulled 8 mythics and the money rare.
Sorin
Huntmaster
Foil Huntermaster
Lich
Demon dagger
Vorpede (Got the vorpede and the Demon Dagger out of the same pack! Go go double mythic pack! Didn't beat my friend's Double mythic Sorin, huntmaster pack though)
Mind control ***** blue mythic
Dragon
And my MVP honorable mention was a foil Drogskol Captain. That card just looks amazing.
The money rare is the Grafdigger's Cage
At least he didn't say "UB control". Here's a short reference list to commonly used color combinations and their meaning:EvilPicnic said:Haha, you lost me at 'Blue Black Control Build' actually - although Google is my friend and I've now worked out what you mean!Encaen said:
I've watched Magic being played, and am quite interested, but am a complete novice when it comes to more than just the very very basic rules. I enjoy reading these types of tactical discussions about any game (and often the tactics are transferable), but I don't have much of a frame of reference to decipher terms with in this case. Would it be possible to include more explanatory asides or hyperlinks to definitions in the articles?
A general newcomers guide would be appreciated too
R - Red
G - Green
B - Black
U - Blue
W - White
so, G/B - Green/Black and so on.
A lot of people refer to certain color combinations by proper names of organizations that used those color combos in the lore. I'll bold the more relevant ones:
Ravnica block guilds:
Boros: R/W
Dimir: U/B
Selesnya: W/G
Golgari: G/B
Orzhov: W/B
Izzet: U/R
Gruul: G/R
Azorious: U/W
Simic: U/G
Rakdos: B/R
Shards from Alara block (these are all commonly used):
Bant: U/G/W
Esper: U/B/W
Naya: R/G/W
Jund: G/R/B
Grixis: U/B/R
You also need to know a bit about the formats:
Blocks generally contain 3 "sets" of cards that are released 3 times a year. The new Block always starts in the fall (late Sept, early Oct) and one set is released every 4 months. Every year there's also a "core" set which includes a very simple set of cards designed at new players that is also legal for play in that year. Core sets tend to come out around the end of summer (Aug/Sept).
Standard - The current block and the last block along with the current year's core set. Right now, the Scars of Mirrodin block that started in Sept. 2010 and the Innistrad block that started in Sept. 2011 (and is set to end with Avacyn Restored in May) are legal as well as the Magic 2012 core set that came out in August 2011. This is by FAR the most common format.
Modern - Modern is a format that includes every card with a "new" card frame. What this basically means is that every card that came out starting with the "Mirrodin" (the Scars block from last year was a throwback to this one that was released in 2003) set is legal. This is a new format that is quickly becoming very popular.
Legacy - Every card ever released in a normal set (not the "Theme decks" or "Commander" series and the like) with a significant banlist that can be found on the Wizards website. Basically all of the super, ultra rare overpowered cards from the beginning of the game (known as the "Power 9") as well as a bunch of other cards that are parts of infinite combos are banned.
Vintage - Every single card is legal, although the Power 9 are restricted to one each per deck. This format is crazy.
Commander - Unofficial format that has recently picked up steam with official endorsement. There is a small banlist, but deck construction is very restricted. You must have a 99 card deck with no more than one copy of any card except basic lands. In addition, you must have 1 Legendary Creature as your "Commander" and may only play cards that are the same colors as that Commander. Everyone starts at 40 life instead of 20 and you can only take up to 21 damage from an enemy Commander. The format is made to be played with more than 2 people and is ridiculously fun.
Deck Archetypes:
Control - focuses on counterspells and removal to stop your opponent from playing anything relevant until you drop a game ending creature/spell and just win from there.
Combo - focuses on getting a few specific cards that create an infinite (or significantly large) advantage.
Aggro - focuses on aggressively costed small creatures and spells that increase their power (such as spells that give all creatures +X/+X collectively known as "anthems" after the card Glorious Anthem) to kill your opponent QUICKLY.
Ramp - focuses on getting as many lands out as possible and using them to fuel huge spells or land-based strategies.
Tempo - focuses on getting early threats down, then preventing the opponent from dealing with them. It's basically reverse control, instead of controlling the early game to win late, they try to win early and control the late game.
No mention that Commander's real name is Elder Dragon Highlander (EDH)? I am disappointed. But yeah, it's a hell of a lot of fun. I love my Hannah deck, I also have a Norin deck that I'm not allowed to play with my group anymore, it took about 4 games with it to get banned. I also have a Thraxamunder deck that they looked through and said they wouldn't play against it. During play testing I managed to get a chain of 30 turns in a row, plus I got an extra turn after every other person's turn.deth2munkies said:
Wizards has officially named it Commander, but I guess some people do still call it EDH <_<Berenzen said:
Norin is annoying as hell, but I've been using an Olivia deck to great effect recently. Nothing like stealing all your opponents' stuff.
A nice way to counter Invisible Stalker would be a RB deck with battlefield clearing cards, like Pyroclasm or Black Hole.
I couldn't have said it better myself. Great write-up!deth2munkies said:
deth2munkies posted a great newcomer's guide above, so definitely check that out and you should be about up to speed. I'll definitely look to include more explanation in the articles themselves going forward!EvilPicnic said:Haha, you lost me at 'Blue Black Control Build' actually - although Google is my friend and I've now worked out what you mean!
I've watched Magic being played, and am quite interested, but am a complete novice when it comes to more than just the very very basic rules. I enjoy reading these types of tactical discussions about any game (and often the tactics are transferable), but I don't have much of a frame of reference to decipher terms with in this case. Would it be possible to include more explanatory asides or hyperlinks to definitions in the articles?
A general newcomers guide would be appreciated too
Nice! I was so pleased when I pulled Sorin, but alas, now I have to get more to make a deck, and I have to wait for him to drop in price before I can actually trade for him. So much trouble for one little card! Lingering Souls is no joke, though. I've eked out several games thanks to that flashback already, and my tokens deck is still in its infancy.Draconalis said:
On that topic, what do you think about Vault of the Archangel [http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=227061] at the moment, and it's still really hard to land a Keeper.
The Opalescence, Parallax Wave/Tide combo isn't too complicated, rules-wise, I don't think. I'd just perform the actions slowly the first time you do it, and be sure to call your floating mana. This will help ensure that they see that you get back to your starting position with mana in your mana pool, and then you can repeat as necessary.Berenzen said:
Some relevant Rules quotes that might help:
110.6b Permanents enter the battlefield untapped, unflipped, face up, and phased in unless a spell or ability says otherwise.
and
702.30a Fading is a keyword that represents two abilities. "Fading N" means "This permanent enters the battlefield with N fade counters on it" and "At the beginning of your upkeep, remove a fade counter from this permanent. If you can't, sacrifice the permanent."
For anyone that's not familiar with the combo here, Opalescence turns your Parallax Wave and Tide into creatures, making them both legal targets for Parallax Wave. You tap lands to float mana, exile the tapped lands with Parallax Tide, then get them back untapped by using Parallax Wave on the Tide and itself, which returns both to the battlefield with 5 Fading counters. Rinse and Repeat.
I was more talking about the way that you can permanently exile your opponent's creatures and lands to piss them off. Where- by having parallax wave exile itself after exiling a bunch of creatures- it brings itself back in, and the rest of the targets remain permanently exiled.Encaen said:
Ahh, yes. I figured the inclusion of Parallax Tide meant you were going for mana. This is definitely a bit more rules-intensive. Sorry about that!Berenzen said:
Here's how I see it(someone please feel free to chime in here if I've got anything wrong!):
You use Parallax Wave's ability targeting one of their creatures. While this is still on the stack, you exile Parallax Wave itself. The last ability resolves first, and Parallax Wave exiles itself, triggering its second ability which goes on the stack. The Triggered Ability resolves, returning Parallax Wave to the Battlefield(with 5 Fading Counters). Finally, the first ability on the stack resolves, permanently exiling the target creature.
This is much like the Fiend Hunter shenanigans mentioned earlier in the thread, where you trigger the "return" ability before the original ability resolves.
Relevant Rules quote here:
112.7a Once activated or triggered, an ability exists on the stack independently of its source. Destruction or removal of the source after that time won't affect the ability...
and the ruling from Fiend Hunter [http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=222007]: If Fiend Hunter leaves the battlefield before its first ability has resolved, its second ability will trigger and do nothing. Then its first ability will resolve and exile the targeted creature indefinitely.
This same feature also sets up a very nifty infinite combo with Phyrexian Metamorph [http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=217981].Encaen said:
You cast the Metamorph with a Suture Priest and Relic-Warder in play, have it exile itself. The return trigger happens before it gets exiled, so you bring it back as Relic-Warder exiling itself again. Every time he comes back into play, you gain 1 life from Suture Priest, so it puts you at as much life as you want (I always say "infinity minus one").
Also, I just noticed this:FilipJPhry said:
The card is "Dark Hole" and it's a Yu-Gi-OH card. Pyroclasm also isn't Standard.
The most common ways to kill it are Geth's Verdict, Tribute to Hunger, Black Sun's Zenith, Day of Judgement, and Slagstorm.
Honorable mentions to Blasphemous Act, Rolling Temblor, and Curse of Death's Hold.
I've been having success against all the iterations of Delver decks with a deck similar to this: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=43699 , except the Ratchet Bombs were Snapcaster Mages and the Tragic Slips were Go for the Throats.
I'm sorry but this really bothers me. Is your general one of the Elder Dragons (ex. creature Nicol Bolas)? Are the others used by everyone else in your playgroup? Unless both are true, then it's called Commander.Berenzen said:
It was called EDH even after it people started using generals other than Elder Dragons. Wizards changed the name to Commander in order not to confuse people, because it no longer uses just Elder dragons. However, the official unoffical name is still Elder Dragon Highlander.dot0rai said:
I am aware of this, it's just something that annoys me. The format started out as something for judges to play after events, with the twist that all the cards' color identity matching a specific legendary. Heck, I'd call it EDH if Chromium was any good. It just really bothers me the devotion to calling the format a name that doesn't hold any meaning to it now.Berenzen said:
There was another build by a guy that had something similar to that.Encaen said:
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=974539
I agree that he's a pretty decent "1 of" since he creates tokens and buffs Sorin's tokens, but I wouldn't put more than that, if you just wanted a token producing machine, I'd recommend the Thraben Doomsayer [http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/magic_single_card.asp?cn=Thraben%20Doomsayer&sn=Dark%20Ascension]. He's double white at 3, which might be a little easier to get than double black at 4, and he makes a pretty BA lord if you are getting pummeled bad enough to need it. That being said, it'll be easier with the chapels, but if you are going to have the bloodline, maybe stock up, or go with a more even split with your swamps to plains ratio. I don't know what else is in your deck, but if nothing you have requires double white, then it doesn't matter if you have 1 W and 6B, you're still good for whatever white spells you need to cast.
How much play testing have you had a chance to do? I can't imagine you getting screwed every time? Oh... and how many bloodlines are running?
Edit:
Actually... the bloodline pumps out 2/2 that fly even before getting buffed... so yeah... Bloodline keeper > doomslayer.
Thanks! I've seen that deck, but not since I started assembling my own. I can't believe I forgot to include Evolving Wilds. That should make the double black a bit easier, especially once I throw in Isolated Chapels. I was originally running 4 Keepers, which is almost certainly too much, but I've gone down to 2 recently, which seems better. I only run one Thraben Doomsayer, which seems okay to me. With Fateful Hour, it's kind of a 'just in case' card. Maybe I'll swap him out for my 25th land, though. Other than Increasing Devotion, that's my only double white card, if I recall correctly.Draconalis said:
I also run 4 Tragic Slips and 2 Oblivion Rings for removal. I find that with as many tokens as I can generate, getting Morbid active is never a problem, so Tragic Slip becomes B - Kill Anything, which is amazing.
As to playtesting, I've only put in a dozen or so games with it so far, but it's showing around 70% wins so far. I'll have to see how these changes work out.
Yeah. the winds will definitely get you that land if you need it. I actually wouldn't go to 25 lands because of them alone. You don't want to be draw more and more land when you are in need of creatures.Encaen said:
I think 2 keepers might be the right point, and I agree that tragic slips are amazing and easy to get online for that massive -13/-13. The more I think about it, the more I think the Doomsayer has less and less of a home in the B/W tokens. He might be decent in G/W humans though... I have a play set that I'm toying with in order see what I can do with it, but I haven't been able to play much magic the past couple of weeks.
Oh, and have you considered a Tribute to Hunger or two at least side bar? I find that sac effects are perfect for getting around hexproof, indestructible and regenerate... Also Thrun, the undying. I would normally say Geth's verdict since it's CMC 2, but it does come as double black. The benefit of Tribute at CMC 3 is, of course, the life gain. If you're emulating the above deck at all, I'd say pull the go for the throats for Tributes, but that's me.
We should try playing using MWS sometime.