The Secret World "Should've Been More Commercial"

[porpoise hork]

I actually liked the game, it had a deep Lovecraft esq story and was rather intricately written, but quit playing after I finished the main story line. After that all that was left was to run around in the crappy PVP or go back and do the old quests over again. It was a fun game and I liked how the character class and ability wheel was designed. In a world of leveling MMO's for me it was a nice change. It wasn't without its faults. nearly zero world gear drops and you would have to grind lower area quests over and over to get enough mats to make the items you absolutely needed to survive the higher difficulty areas.

As far as the instances, forget trying to find groups for them. No queue system instead it was just a chat channel that didn't work 2/3rd of the time so unless you stood next to the start point for a particular instance, if you could find them that is the chances were you would never get in. sure there was an LFG add on from Curse but even that didn't help since the majority of players using it were either idle or had no intention of doing the particular difficulty setting you wanted to do.

Secondly, how the hell can these devs still not understand that "Price tag + Sub + Cash Shop" IS A RECIPE FOR FAILURE.

I think its not so much a developer failing to understand but something being pushed down the pipe by an excessively greedy publisher.

 

[V8 Ninja]

Last I checked, everything awesome about The Secret World derived from the non-conventional aspects of the game.

 

[Schadrach]

One reason could also be that the game seems to price gouge you. You pay $60 for the game, then $15 a month, on top of a real-money shop that from what I hear is pretty brutal. Methinks that'd put people off. Especially in a market where most are free to play or Guild Wars 2.

Yes, it's a typical subscription MMO with a typical box price and also a cash shop that contains only cosmetic stuff (I think they added server transfers to it as well, but if so that's literally the only thing on the market with a game effect of any kind). The biggest cash shop related problems are that stuff is a bit too expensive, purchased per character (though there's little reason at all for alts in TSW), and they made too much stuff (both cash shop, promo, and unlocked from quests or completing skill trees) "multi-slot" which keeps you from mixing and matching.

Speaking of Guild Wars 2, it also broke quite a few MMO conventions, and it's doing damn fine.

Guild Wars 2 mostly broke the same conventions as TSW (though they left in levels and classes), did so in a few of the same ways, but polished the living hell out of everything they did. They also have 2/3 of the forms of monetization (box price and cash shop) but heir cash shop is not purely cosmetic. They also have server size limitations that make it difficult to join friends if you don't start playing at the same time (because PvP isn't faction v faction but rather server v server).

They also did something that should hopefully solve the gold seller problem -- the in game shop currency can be legitimately traded for normal in game currency through the player economy (this is effectively the EVE solution as well via PLEX).

The biggest thing TSW cannot be praised enough for though are investigation missions. Quests where you're basically given a few loose clues and told to "figure it out", though there were a tiny handful of those in previous MMOs (even EQ had a couple, like the burning rapier quest for rogues -- nothing like finding a bottle of liquor on the bottom of the ocean with nothing but at most a poem from a bard and your own wits to tell you where to look), though TSW makes them a core important part of the experience.

If The Secret World was more like every other MMO, I doubt it would have done much better. Look at The Old Republic, and hell, damn-near every other MMO that tried to be like WoW. Either they went or are free-to-play, or they're dead.

To be fair, "going free to play" often *increases* revenues, and is why Turbine is chugging along merrily to this day running two F2P games (one of which I've never actually played but have multiple promotional mounts for due to PAX. I should probably actually install it at some point). I figure TSW will do it eventually, offer some special benefit to the lifers, and add things that give mechanical benefits to the cash shop (XP boosters and the like).

 

[Nimzabaat]

I'm sorry but the only reason Guild Wars 2 is doing well is because it's F2P. If I had to pay a fee to play GW2, I wouldn't, it's just not worth it (And the original GW wasn't either). TSW, on the other hand, is well worth the subscription. If you don't want to buy additional cosmetic items for your toons... don't. Just like TF2, if you don't want a hat, don't buy a hat. But don't complain that there are hats, that's just silly.

I do agree that TSW should have been a single player game, and that Funcom should have known that. Most MMO players are used to being led by the nose to every single point of the game. Age of Conan proved that. I remember one of the first quests for the Rogue was to follow a guy and grab something from a shop that he stopped at. Lots of typical MMO players would follow that guy for hours not realizing that his "i'm putting something here" animation meant something.

 

[cerebus23]

One reason could also be that the game seems to price gouge you. You pay $60 for the game, then $15 a month, on top of a real-money shop that from what I hear is pretty brutal. Methinks that'd put people off. Especially in a market where most are free to play or Guild Wars 2.

Speaking of Guild Wars 2, it also broke quite a few MMO conventions, and it's doing damn fine.

If The Secret World was more like every other MMO, I doubt it would have done much better. Look at The Old Republic, and hell, damn-near every other MMO that tried to be like WoW. Either they went or are free-to-play, or they're dead.

Yea if a dev made a good alternative game p2p or f2p game with a payment system that makes sense, but mixing them and expecting people to flock to it is daft, especialyl the way theirs works from what i have read. They were just to gdamn greedy to make people want to play it period.

I heard alot of really good things about the mechanics the quests seemed original and some of them challenging.

Wow clones never end well. how are you going to launch a wow clone with more content that wow has atm you put it out? Since that is what your game is going to get compared to. Wow plus its 6 or w/e expansions vs your game.

Did not matter that tor had as much content as launch wow had, and even more. There was lack of content people that blasted thru the game in a few weeks pvpd awhile got bored and complained that tor was missing features and instances compared to wow.

 

[Schadrach]

Secondly, how the hell can these devs still not understand that "Price tag + Sub + Cash Shop" IS A RECIPE FOR FAILURE.

I think its not so much a developer failing to understand but something being pushed down the pipe by an excessively greedy publisher.

What publisher is that? EA's name on the game box is only there because Funcom contracted them to do physical manufacturing and retail distribution. There's a reason why there's no mention of them on the TSW website, the Steam page, or in game -- they have no financial stake in the game. Funcom fully owns and controls TSW, so there's no one else to blame for the contents of the game itself, unless you got a scratched disc or misprinted box or some such.

 

[Sartan0]

I am getting sick of all the misinformation out there. I don't understand the desire to repeat it.

1. The game never cost $60. It was priced $50 or less. (There was at least two chances to get it for $25 as well both on steam and directly from Funcom)

2. As was pointed out by others the cash shop is all clothing and pets and such. You do not have to use it and there were plenty of ways to get free points at least early on. Not to mention some clothing items are up for in game money not real money. And there is a fair variety of clothing items you can earn through quests and achievement.

3. Sure the game subscription cost $15 (at the monthly rate) after the first month but that is the same cost as going out to eat once or seeing one movie in the theater and eating pop corn with said movie.

4. As pointed out by others EA was only involved with the physical distribution. If you want to blame someone or praise them for the game you look no further then Funcom.

Look I like the game. You are entitled to your opinion on it one way or the other but please don't repeat inaccurate information.

 

[oldtaku]

Your problem was that you have thoroughly trained me to never buy a Funcom game at launch thanks to your previous broken releases. A couple years later they might be pretty nice! Anarchy Online, Age of Conan, I'm looking at you.

 

[necromus]

The game is fine and what makes it so good is that it does not follow the MMO conventions. I am a paying customer because it does not follow the conventions, if it was just another MMO clone I would not be a paying customer.

The reasons I believe the game has been relatively unsuccessful:

1) Poor advertising - I am on multiple MMO sites daily and I only learned about the game existing over 2 months after it was released.

2) Subscription model - people do not like the subscription model it turns off a lot of people. I think they should do what Lotro does and offer a hybrid model, if you want the deluxe get the subscription, but have another payment option that uses a more limited game with a cash shop. People also don't realize that Funcom does not intend to charge for new content (eg: expansions) ever (at least not for the foreseeable future) so even though it is currently subscription-based it is still cheaper than WoW and has much more frequent content released than WoW (TSW plans to release new content once every month, one release was 2 weeks late but it still works out to be 1 month on average, far, far, more often than WoW.

3) No free trial until recently

If it was not for the free trial I would not have tried this game and would not have bought it. I am hesitant to buy any game that I am not sure I am going to like, especially if it is a subscription-based game (ie: more expensive = more risk). I pre-purchased Guild Wars 2 because of all the hype but I was extremely disappointed with that game so I am hesitant to ever buy a game before I tried it now. After I spent the weekend playing The Secret World I saw that it was everything people have been asking for in an MMO for years and I loved the voice acting and NPCs and the quests are way more interesting than kill 10 rats quests so I bought the game and I am still enjoying playing now.

Also, I've noticed some potential customers/critics seem to have judged TSW on past failures of Funcom (Age of Conan) and EA (its distributor) instead of judging the game itself unfortunately which is really unfair to TSW.

 

[Programmed_For_Damage]

Secret World should have been a single player game.

Seriously, so much about that game would have worked great for a single player RPG. But nooooo, it HAD to be an MMO. And the awesome setting aside, it was a kinda crappy one (as far as gameplay goes). So no, being more "commercial" wouldn't have helped it much...

Yeah that was my problem with it. I was really intrigued by the premise and most other things about the game, but the fact that I had to jump online and play it put me off.
I deal with people all day as part of my job, when I get home I like to not deal with them.

 

[1337mokro]

The problem was.... YOU MADE IT A SUBSCRIPTION MMO!!!

That basically slashes the market you can reach by 90%. Because only a select view people will actually be around long enough for that business model to be profitable. The rest of us will be annoyed that it is even an MMO in the first place and the rest of the people will be alienated by the weird lovecraft themes going on.

You made a Subscription Lovecraft Horror MMO with Guns.

I could have told you on day one that you would have failed.

Should have just made it a goddamned third person horror game with coop if you REALLY wanted that MP aspect.

 

[Dalisclock]

So I guess this means that we're never going to see how Dreamfall was supposed to end?

Sorry, I loved The Longest Journey, and wanted to really like Dreamfall, then heard "Well,no dreamfall sequel until TSW is done". Of course, now TSW is done, crashed and burned. So I guess Funcom is too.

 

[Callate]

I'm more inclined to blame that I barely heard of the thing until it came out, and I tend to think of myself as an above-norm consumer of gaming print media. It wouldn't surprise me if a lot of game-related periodicals aren't giving away "The next WOW killer!" headlines as freely as they used to, but I suspect they could have done a better job getting people excited about The Secret World's release and explaining what made it different and worthwhile.

Then again, The Old Republic had all the buzz you could possibly ask for and is still stuttering, so maybe the subscription model for MMOs is just an impossible row to hoe anymore.

 

[nodlimax]

All those twisted ideas were the things that made me interested in the game. I've played the beta and decided not to buy it. Why? Simple, the game was kind of boring. The characters felt dead and the gameplay overall wasn't fun. The quests were interesting and required me to think, but the combat was just dull and boring.

So with a character (my own character) I didn't like (creepy smile in all the cutscenes and no comments on anything) and a combat system I didn't like there was no way I would play this game.

 

[9thRequiem]

The game is fine and what makes it so good is that it does not follow the MMO conventions. I am a paying customer because it does not follow the conventions, if it was just another MMO clone I would not be a paying customer.

The reasons I believe the game has been relatively unsuccessful:

1) Poor advertising - I am on multiple MMO sites daily and I only learned about the game existing over 2 months after it was released.

2) Subscription model - people do not like the subscription model it turns off a lot of people. I think they should do what Lotro does and offer a hybrid model, if you want the deluxe get the subscription, but have another payment option that uses a more limited game with a cash shop. People also don't realize that Funcom does not intend to charge for new content (eg: expansions) ever (at least not for the foreseeable future) so even though it is currently subscription-based it is still cheaper than WoW and has much more frequent content released than WoW (TSW plans to release new content once every month, one release was 2 weeks late but it still works out to be 1 month on average, far, far, more often than WoW.

3) No free trial until recently

If it was not for the free trial I would not have tried this game and would not have bought it. I am hesitant to buy any game that I am not sure I am going to like, especially if it is a subscription-based game (ie: more expensive = more risk). I pre-purchased Guild Wars 2 because of all the hype but I was extremely disappointed with that game so I am hesitant to ever buy a game before I tried it now. After I spent the weekend playing The Secret World I saw that it was everything people have been asking for in an MMO for years and I loved the voice acting and NPCs and the quests are way more interesting than kill 10 rats quests so I bought the game and I am still enjoying playing now.

Also, I've noticed some potential customers/critics seem to have judged TSW on past failures of Funcom (Age of Conan) and EA (its distributor) instead of judging the game itself unfortunately which is really unfair to TSW.

4) Really bad timing.
Had this been released at any other time, it would have done much better. However, with Tera, GW2, and MoP all around the same time, it's going to suffer.
I know I'd have given it a try if it hadn't been for GW2 being so close.

EDIT : On the game itself, I disagree strongly with Bruusgaard - those changes were what got the interest that was there - had it been "more commercial", it'd have probably failed harder.

 

[Aetrion]

The Secret World isn't doing badly because it wasn't "commercial" enough, it's doing bad because their idea of Horizontal progression is "You start out very specialized and become more and more like everyone else", which completely destroys any incentive people have to keep playing long term.

" Oh, you slogged through the whole first act of the game with a ton of healing skills and very little DPS? You picked healing gear on dungeon runs instead of rolling on the hitpoint stuff? Oh, we're sorry, in act 2 everyone has enough points to be just as good a healer as you without having to needlessly torture themselves in act 1. Why, you should have adapted to the situation better... "

Adapting to the situation is an absolute crock of shat. It's basically game design code for "minmaxing on a minute to minute basis required". Your own personal preferred playstyle isn't something you are allowed to bring to the table in a game that expects you to adapt to every situation by changing the way your whole character works. The thing is though, what makes a game about leveling up and picking skills etc. fun is that you get to PICK how your character works. Combining that with a system that beats you with a rolled up newspaper for playing your way is absolutely hurrrdurrrrr...

The reality with the Secret World is, it didn't fail because of the riddle quests or because of the classless system, it failed because their implementation of horizontal progression was absolute garbage. I enjoyed the game a lot in the first sector where my character felt unique and different from everyone else. By the time I got to the second act of the story however damn near every single player had become bland and samey. The ones who were different were gimps.

That's what just makes you lose interest in a game like that.

I had decided which weapons I liked the best one hour into the game in the training room.
I had decided which progression lines out of those weapons I liked the best after the first zone.
I had maxed those lines out by the end of the first act.
I had no incentive to keep playing just so I could unlock a bunch of stuff I didn't want in the first place.

The kicker is, the game ISN'T based on horizontal progression, it's just that you get dumped into the item grind from WoW endgame right at the beginning of the game. Your items determine how powerful your character is ultimately. Skill combos that are very powerful help, but aren't the ultimate determining factor.


What they got wrong is simply that instead of starting out players with very similar characters and having a system that lets you develop further and further away from that into your own niche they built a system where the first 200-300 points you spend make you radically different from other people at that stage of the game, but eventually everyone has 3000 or more points invested, and then what? You're not special, anyone can just go into the equipment manager and hit the "steal your job" button.

 

[Nami nom noms]

and so shall continue the retarded cycle of mmo design;
with the business men and developers mistaking 'safe' design as something the players want, and then wondering why the game bombs upon release.

And then it will lend more credence to the misheld belief that only WoW can be a successful mmo.