The Secret World

[Sgt Pepper]

Personally, I prefer P2P games myself. It's just a feeling, but to me P2P games just feel more complete. You know what the game holds and you know exactly what you are getting for your money. Without the pressure to buy additions.

I agree, I am playing TSW and I think the sub is more than justified and yeah, P2P is better imo.

Whilst I still do play LOTRO I don't really like what the Turbine store has done to that game. Thankfully, TSW so far is doing a good job with the cash shop, it's extremely optional and doesn't give gameplay enhancements.

f2p is an oxymoron (funny that everyone always claims they never buy stuff in those games yet the average spend per user tends to be higher than a subscription charge) and, ultimately, I think f2p is going to ruin MMOs eventually.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Whilst I still do play LOTRO I don't really like what the Turbine store has done to that game. Thankfully, TSW so far is doing a good job with the cash shop, it's extremely optional and doesn't give gameplay enhancements.

f2p is an oxymoron (funny that everyone always claims they never buy stuff in those games yet the average spend per user tends to be higher than a subscription charge) and, ultimately, I think f2p is going to ruin MMOs eventually.

I'm wary of cash shops too, but Turbine is a terrible example of the worst excesses imaginable. LOTRO's cash shop is God's punishment for an evil world. The cash shop in GW2 is completely tame and arguably no more essential or high impact than the one in TSW...which also carries a sub fee.

 

[Tayh]

...And published by EA, so they still end up with some of the money.

So buy the frigging digital version.
Damnit!
Whatever man, I don't care anymore - go be paranoid all you want, I'm too tired of this ignorance.

 

[lord.jeff]

I never liked the monthly fee in games it just doesn't work for my schedule and play style, sometimes I only get one weekend or two a month to play games and whenever I had a subscription I'd feel I'd have to use that weekend to get my moneys worth instead of just playing whatever I wanted.

 

[Schadrach]

Doesn't it cost 60 dollars in retail? And a subscription fee to play? AND you have to pay money if you want to have more than 3 characters?

Yeah, fuck that.

No reason to have more than three, except for RP reasons. Imagine (from a WoW perspective) that all tanks wore the same basic gear, all healers wore the same basic gear, and all DPS wore the same basic gear. Now imagine you could, for free at any time and place you are out of combat, respec your Protection Warrior into a Fire Mage, or maybe an Affliction Warlock, or a Subtlety Rogue, or how about a Restoration Druid, maybe a Ret/Prot Paladin hybrid build for soloing? Once you pay the AP to learn the abilities (which come faster than you think, and the basic abilities for each weapon are dirt cheap, and the passives are really good cross-weapon, and the advanced abilities aren't generically more powerful, they are more specialized), you can switch when you feel like it. There's even a mechanic that let's you save your favorite specs along with the gear you are using them with, and keep a fairly arbitrary number of such setups.

Who wants to bet that they will eventually release a raid fight with phases where you drop OOC in between phases and are expected to reconfigure the raid?

 

[BloatedGuppy]

No reason to have more than three, except for RP reasons.

Technically there's no real reason to have less than 3 either, except that the company saw an opportunity to make money.

Anyone who likes aesthetically different characters is going to be up against the wall. 3 slots is extremely low for a game charging a sub.

 

[Thandran]

No reason to have more than three, except for RP reasons.

Technically there's no real reason to have less than 3 either, except that the company saw an opportunity to make money.

Anyone who likes aesthetically different characters is going to be up against the wall. 3 slots is extremely low for a game charging a sub.

Because I don't know ... how many slots were you given in WoW? It's been ages since I've played. To compare.

On topic:

Looks like an interesting game. Though I'm more waiting for GW2.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Because I don't know ... how many slots were you given in WoW? It's been ages since I've played. To compare.

On topic:

Looks like an interesting game. Though I'm more waiting for GW2.

8 per server, and no limitation on how many servers you can join. So...uh...how many servers are in WoW? Let's say 200. 1600 slots.

Now, a WoW character =/= a TSW character as established, but that does not mean that 3 slots isn't still a ludicrously stingy restriction with the clear intention of driving cash shop sales for extra slots. Which is FINE. If you don't charge a SUB FEE.

 

[Syzygy23]

Because I don't know ... how many slots were you given in WoW? It's been ages since I've played. To compare.

On topic:

Looks like an interesting game. Though I'm more waiting for GW2.

8 per server, and no limitation on how many servers you can join. So...uh...how many servers are in WoW? Let's say 200. 1600 slots.

Now, a WoW character =/= a TSW character as established, but that does not mean that 3 slots isn't still a ludicrously stingy restriction with the clear intention of driving cash shop sales for extra slots. Which is FINE. If you don't charge a SUB FEE.

And herein lies the problem.

There's an entry fee, a monthly fee (unless you just happen to have 250 smackaroos you can toss away) AND an item shop.

It feels like the game's development was so expensive that Funcom is lashing out in desperation, attempting to make a profit at any cost, even if it means putting microtransactions in a non-free-to-play game with cover charge.

 

[SweetShark]

Whaaatttt...
I though if you buy the game then you can paly it for free....
Just make it free to play when you buy the things like Guild Wars...

Anyway, being Secret World a new IP I don't think EA would allowed to give to us a "hollow" game.......so soon...

However, You should expect a lot of DLC for this games cause of the concept the game have.
Imagine how many different legends and myths the developers can use to expand the length of the game. I would love to see a map that invovled a mission in Greece ^^

Also about the DRM........yeeeaaahhhh.......if the game have, f*ck this game...I hate this kind of polishy...

...It is an MMO. Of COURSE it has DRM. What rock have you been living under?

....Damn, you are right...

Spoiler

I don't what I was thinking back then...I forgot about that.
Never was a MMO player. The only MMO I played is Path of Exile, but even then I play it only solo.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

And herein lies the problem.

There's an entry fee, a monthly fee (unless you just happen to have 250 smackaroos you can toss away) AND an item shop.

It feels like the game's development was so expensive that Funcom is lashing out in desperation, attempting to make a profit at any cost, even if it means putting microtransactions in a non-free-to-play game with cover charge.

Exactly. Which is why I fear that the game is going to have its lunch served to it by GW2 and MoP when they come crashing out of the gate in August and September. TSW could be looking at staggering subscriber drop off after the first two months. If it hits a 90% drop I wouldn't be surprised at all.

And that's not an imprecation on the quality of the game, but a reality of what happens to sub based games after the free month expires. If I was Funcom I'd have been as generous as possible knowing I'd have to face the ultra-hyped GW2 and a goddam WoW expansion when my game was barely 2 months old. Instead they're almost daring people to leave. Character slots? Clothes? You don't really NEED that stuff. It's OPTIONAL. Pay up, whiners!

 

[Schadrach]

Imma be honest... I'm not interested... the MMo market is way overblown... honestly there's way too many... we just need to start letting them die now...<.<

TSW is reasonably unlike other MMOs, I hope it lives a long and happy life, for the same reason that I hope CoH continues to, and I wish Auto Assault had. There's a definite need for more breadth in the genre.

Again though, this is a question of optics and perception. It does not matter that the two cash shops are comparables, because the games are NOT. WoW was an established industry titan with an enormous and captive player base. TSW is a brand new game with a new IP and a developer with a reputation for shaky launches. It needs to ward off not only the larger and more heavily advertised GW2, but also MoP, in the months immediately following its release.

If you have a long time friend, who you've known for many years, and that friend asks to borrow money, you'd likely not think much of it. Now imagine you have a new friend you've known for only a day, and they are also asking to borrow money. This is TSW and the cash shop.

Funcom is in a very vulnerable position with TSW. They need to be doing every thing they can to marry subscribers to their product, because they face one of the most ugly lineups of competition I've ever seen a new MMO exposed to. The sub drop-off for new MMOs tends to be between 50-80% after the free month, WITHOUT competition. Games that have a Blizzard expansion dropped on them have lost up to 90%. TSW has that, and then some, to look forward to.

ANYTHING they do that puts people off buying or staying is playing with fire.

Thye don't draw too much attention to the item shop, other than the banner ad in the launcher, really. You can pretend it's not even there with no ill effects unless you had a preorder or bonus pack (Secret War, Initiate, Master, or Grand Master, or presumably the ARG rewards when they hand them out [I was number 60 on the top 200, so I get at least a Black Watchmen hoodie, I really want to win a Slaughterhouse 666 hoodie though]), in which case it's also where you claim your bonus goodies. Nothing in the shop effects game play in any fashion aside from preorder/bonus goodies (which are on the very top end QL1 blues).

*spits out drink violently* TWO HUNDRED AND FIF-

Yeah, no, FUCK that funcom. Your game may be good, but it isn't 250 dollars good. I don't know any game that is.

The Grand Master Pack, which includes the lifetime sub, a complete set of QL1 blue talismans (with similar weapons in the Initiate pack, and QL1 green weapons were in the Secret War), some XP pots, a 10% discount on the cash shop, and a special outfit is priced at 13 1/3 months of subscription time. That's not atypical for a lifetime subscription to an MMO. It's just the sticker shock of seeing 13 1/3 months of sub + box price of game all up front.

 

[WanderingFool]

Actually, yes, I've played pre-access and I've gotten a lifetime subscription. The setting and atmosphere are amazing and the missions are usually sculpted into amazing ice sculptures while most other MMO's just churn out ice cubes. Seriously, watch every cut-scene. You won't regret it.

The combat system is also very in depth when you look into it. On the outside, it looks like just normal button mashing with a bit of active dodging. However, the real gem of the system is found in creating many different synergies between two weapons and 14 out of over 500 abilities.

It is definitely not for everyone, it targets a niche crowd. However, that is because it IS different than most MMO's.
It doesn't hold your hand very much, however, and that could be seen as a good thing or a bad thing. Personally, I had no trouble at all playing the game. But that is because I had already done my research and knew how to play.

Also, EA is only handling the physical distribution of the game. They have absolutely no control in the development process of the games past, present, or future.

For the cash shop? You'd be surprised at how well Funcom has managed to keep it strictly cosmetic with no affect on the gameplay. You cannot buy items or money and you cannot sell, disassemble, or trade anything you do buy. You may not like the fact that there even is a cash shop to begin with, neither do I, but I find the game to have made up for itself and more just because it is so different.

The launch has been the smoothest MMO launches I've ever experienced and so far I've not regretted my decision to get lifetime membership one bit!

All sounds good, but how long is a lifetime membership exactly, and how much is it?

 

[BloatedGuppy]

They don't draw too much attention to the item shop, other than the banner ad in the launcher, really. You can pretend it's not even there with no ill effects unless you had a preorder or bonus pack (Secret War, Initiate, Master, or Grand Master, or presumably the ARG rewards when they hand them out [I was number 60 on the top 200, so I get at least a Black Watchmen hoodie, I really want to win a Slaughterhouse 666 hoodie though]), in which case it's also where you claim your bonus goodies. Nothing in the shop effects game play in any fashion aside from preorder/bonus goodies (which are on the very top end QL1 blues).

I know all about the item shop. In terms of content, you're right, it's fairly non malicious, being limited entirely to cosmetic items. One could argue that cosmetic items are fairly significant in TSW, and I've heard mixed reports over the quality and quantity of the ones available for "free" via the sub, but for the sake of argument lets assume the "free" stuff is perfectly acceptable.

In terms of pricing it's straight up rude. Even proponents of the cash shop are snarking about the prices on the official forums.

In terms of optics it's terrible. Whether it's tucked away or not, people are aware of it, and it SEEMS greedy. And I'm just not sure Funcom can afford anything even remotely resembling negative perception with the hill they have to climb over the back half of this year. They're already going through the traditional "grace period was too short" fiasco at the moment, with physical copies slow drifting in thanks to July 4th and people getting locked out of the game they just dropped huge amounts of money on.

MMO players are fickle, demanding idiots. They will turn on your game in record speed if something rubs them wrong. And Cash Shop + Sub can and will rub many of them wrong.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

All sounds good, but how long is a lifetime membership exactly, and how much is it?

Lifetime!

$250.

At $15 a month, you'd want to play for at least a year and a half to feel like you got good value out of that.

For what it's worth, I'm a rabid MMO enthusiast, and I've never lasted longer than 6 months on a single run on ANY game, even a content deep one like WoW or EQ. By all accounts, there's a good 1-2 months of content in TSW at present time.

I've yet to meet a person who bought a lifetime sub to ANY game that didn't consider it a poor investment down the road.

 

[WanderingFool]

All sounds good, but how long is a lifetime membership exactly, and how much is it?

Lifetime!

$250.

At $15 a month, you'd want to play for at least a year and a half to feel like you got good value out of that.

For what it's worth, I'm a rabid MMO enthusiast, and I've never lasted longer than 6 months on a single run on ANY game, even a content deep one like WoW or EQ. By all accounts, there's a good 1-2 months of content in TSW at present time.

I've yet to meet a person who bought a lifetime sub to ANY game that didn't consider it a poor investment down the road.

Thats exactly what im curious about. When I read lifetime, I tend to think of that lifetime as the life of the product. This being an MMO, that could be anywhere from 2 years, 1 year, 6 months or even less (reason being WoW.) I cant justify to myself buying anything like a lifetime subscription to a MMO that could very well be F2P in 2 months. Thats ideally why Im waiting until it either it goes F2P, or I hear enough good info about it to be willing to pay the monthly subscription rate.

 

[Tayh]

I've yet to meet a person who bought a lifetime sub to ANY game that didn't consider it a poor investment down the road.

Hello, my name is Tayh.
I own a lifetime subscription for LOTRO(>4 years and running) and TSW and I consider neither a bad investment.

 

[Schadrach]

I know all about the item shop. In terms of content, you're right, it's fairly non malicious, being limited entirely to cosmetic items. One could argue that cosmetic items are fairly significant in TSW, and I've heard mixed reports over the quality and quantity of the ones available for "free" via the sub, but for the sake of argument lets assume the "free" stuff is perfectly acceptable.

In terms of pricing it's straight up rude. Even proponents of the cash shop are snarking about the prices on the official forums.

In terms of optics it's terrible. Whether it's tucked away or not, people are aware of it, and it SEEMS greedy. And I'm just not sure Funcom can afford anything even remotely resembling negative perception with the hill they have to climb over the back half of this year. They're already going through the traditional "grace period was too short" fiasco at the moment, with physical copies slow drifting in thanks to July 4th and people getting locked out of the game they just dropped huge amounts of money on.

MMO players are fickle, demanding idiots. They will turn on your game in record speed if something rubs them wrong. And Cash Shop + Sub can and will rub many of them wrong.

As far as the quality of the "free" stuff, the starting clothing isn't terribly awesome looking, however it's not the only clothing in game. Also, if you build one of the sample builds (called "decks", viewable from the skill wheel) you actually get the clothing that the sample character is wearing, which is generally pretty nice. I'll have the Pandemonist getup soon enough, to go with my Secret War stuff and my hoodie or hoodies (if I win a slaughterhouse hoodie, it's never coming off).

All sounds good, but how long is a lifetime membership exactly, and how much is it?

Lifetime!

$250.

At $15 a month, you'd want to play for at least a year and a half to feel like you got good value out of that.

For what it's worth, I'm a rabid MMO enthusiast, and I've never lasted longer than 6 months on a single run on ANY game, even a content deep one like WoW or EQ. By all accounts, there's a good 1-2 months of content in TSW at present time.

I've yet to meet a person who bought a lifetime sub to ANY game that didn't consider it a poor investment down the road.

The lifetime sub for TSW is ~$200 by itself. The $250 number includes the box price of the game. If you would expect to play it for more than a year, it's worth it. If not, it's not.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Thats exactly what im curious about. When I read lifetime, I tend to think of that lifetime as the life of the product. This being an MMO, that could be anywhere from 2 years, 1 year, 6 months or even less (reason being WoW.) I cant justify to myself buying anything like a lifetime subscription to a MMO that could very well be F2P in 2 months. Thats ideally why Im waiting until it either it goes F2P, or I hear enough good info about it to be willing to pay the monthly subscription rate.

The lifetime subbers for LOTRO get access to all that game's ludicrously priced unlockables for free, so they at least got something for their trouble. I imagine the same would be true for TSW if it goes FTP at some point.

Hello, my name is Tayh.

I own a lifetime subscription for LOTRO(>4 years and running) and TSW and I consider neither a bad investment.

I've been getting burned by MMO launches a lot lately.

UO - 6 months played. Good value.
EQ - Roughly 1 year played, total, in two visits. Good value.
DAoC - Roughly 8-10 months played, total, in two visits. Good value.
CoH - Roughly 3-4 months played in 3-4 visits. Decent value.
AO - One week played. BAD VALUE.
WoW - Roughly 2-3 years played in MANY visits, due to lousy competition. Excellent value.
WAR - Roughly 1.5 months played. Questionable value.
AOC - One week played. BAD VALUE.
LOTRO - One week played. BAD VALUE. I actually bought two collectors editions for this as well, as they were the only boxes on the shelf when I went in to get it.
VANGUARD - 3 days played. BAD VALUE.
AION - One month played. Poor value.
TOR - Two months played, but bought a 3 month sub (optimistically). BAD VALUE.
RIFT - One month played, but only off and on. BAD VALUE.

I'm hesitant to even go beyond month to month on anything these days. Since every game since WoW requires me to buy two boxes, it's particularly painful when they're one and done.

I'm sure I'm forgetting a few in there as well. Seems to me I'm missing one or two from the post-WoW era.

The lifetime sub for TSW is ~$200 by itself. The $250 number includes the box price of the game. If you would expect to play it for more than a year, it's worth it. If not, it's not.

I figured...I guess instead of "month and a half" I should've said 14 months, but I was rounding up aggressively.

 

[Schadrach]

All sounds good, but how long is a lifetime membership exactly, and how much is it?

Lifetime!

$250.

At $15 a month, you'd want to play for at least a year and a half to feel like you got good value out of that.

For what it's worth, I'm a rabid MMO enthusiast, and I've never lasted longer than 6 months on a single run on ANY game, even a content deep one like WoW or EQ. By all accounts, there's a good 1-2 months of content in TSW at present time.

I've yet to meet a person who bought a lifetime sub to ANY game that didn't consider it a poor investment down the road.

Thats exactly what im curious about. When I read lifetime, I tend to think of that lifetime as the life of the product. This being an MMO, that could be anywhere from 2 years, 1 year, 6 months or even less (reason being WoW.) I cant justify to myself buying anything like a lifetime subscription to a MMO that could very well be F2P in 2 months. Thats ideally why Im waiting until it either it goes F2P, or I hear enough good info about it to be willing to pay the monthly subscription rate.

Look at it from a historical perspective then. How many Funcom MMOs have died? I'd be more afraid if it were an NCSoft title, they've killed a *bunch* of online games, including Tabula Rasa, Auto Assault, and Exteel. If you'd play for a year, get a lifetime. If not, don't.