The Silent Hill Series Discussion (SPOILERS)

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

This is one of my favorite series of all time, and just talking about it in the Unpopular Opinions created the need to discuss it. I'm going to branch off a conversation I had with SilentPony here, but PLEASE add anything. This is a series that needs discussing.

SilentPony brought up a point in the Unpopular Discussion.

Its established Silent Hill is haunted, so weird things happening or disappearing never felt like James was going crazy, just the town trolling him.

This is true. Silent Hill is Haunted. So things not being what it seems always will make sense. Save for one thing.

Laura.

Laura has added so much depth when you think about her, it makes the town almost crazy to think about. In essence, is Laura even real?

If Mary's letter is real, does Laura make any lick of sense? How could James never know about the one bright spot in Mary's life? The one person that she had nothing but love for, that got her best and most positive of feelings... something that James himself can't even claim?

Think about it logically. Do you think your significant other would love a child so much that he or she would wish to adopt her and never mention her to you? This one fact makes Laura a mystery. I remember having this thought when I beat the game that long time ago.

So that made me think about the others. We already know the Silent Hill created Maria as punishment. So why would it stop there? If you think about, everyone James interacts with could be a facet of the personality that he adopted.

Angela is the abused one that constantly was mistreated and lashed out over.

Eddie was the one who was mocked and became selfish and self-centered.

Laura is a child seeking the person she loves as if she just finds her, everything would be better.

And Maria is a... his ID version of what he missed while Mary was sick.

To me, this is the only way it makes sense. Because if you compare the crimes, Eddie and Angela shouldn't even be there. The eternal punishment does not fit the 'crimes' that Eddie and Angela committed.

One bully, a football player in particular, would not leave Eddie alone even after graduating high school. Eddie became an easy target and a victim. Eventually, Eddie mentally snapped and proceeded to kill the bully's dog in retaliation. Afterwards, Eddie shot the bully in the knee with his father's gun, crippling him, though did not kill him. Afterwards, Eddie fled, wandering for a while before coming to rest in Silent Hill, claiming that the town "called" him there. It is also ambiguous if Eddie is on the run from police; he claims in-game he "just ran because he was scared", but this could be a lie.

(Source [http://silenthill.wikia.com/wiki/Eddie_Dombrowski])

Because of her traumatic experiences, boring exhausting dead end slave job, mental health issues, as well as her failure to achieve any form of release from her torment, Angela became suicidal. According to the novelization, Angela visited a doctor at a hospital and all he did was prescribe drugs (presumably anti-depressants), but they did not work and the side effects of which were torturous on her. Angela felt this doctor didn't understand her.

After Angela graduated high school, she ran away from home but was found and dragged back by her father. It is unknown how old Angela was when she tried to leave home - since Angela presumably lived in Maine, if Angela was 18 or older, it would have been illegal for Thomas to force Angela to return.

It is unknown if Thomas and/or Angela's brother continued to rape Angela after taking her back. Regardless, at the Orosco residence around midnight, Angela took a kitchen knife and stabbed her father in the neck in anger, slitting his throat, and stabbed him in the torso multiple times. There is evidence of a struggle in the room, implying that Thomas fought for his life, but was overwhelmed by Angela. She did not bother to take her family's cash or hide her father's corpse and fled the house. According to the novelization, Angela also murdered her brother, but it doesn't go into detail.

(Source [http://silenthill.wikia.com/wiki/Angela_Orosco])

How the hell are these even in the same ballpark as what James did? Eddie killed a dog and injured a football player. For that henious crime, he deserves to go to Purgatory? Angela was sexually abused her entire life. She ran, and she was dragged back, beaten, and had to go through it all over again. As long as her brother and father lived, that would have been her life. It was self defense.... and for that, Silent Hill believes she deserves Purgatory? Not to mention the created emotional damage due to her years of abuse.

It makes more sense if Silent Hill 2 created everyone to just fuck with James. To throw him over the edge. To show him what a true emotionally abused victim who is justified looks like. to show him what a coward who suffered a few bad words and overreacted looks like. To show him how a child thinks, believing finding that one person who will make it all better would look like. And finally, showing him that even getting the woman he thought he would want his wife to be would look like.

That's why the In Water ending is the one that most people agree is the one that fits (even though I got 'Leave' like a Boss). He faced all of his demons AND the manifestations of his personality. And he saw how they can't fit. He can't atone. But he could Commit.

This is just my theory. I know words of God, but this is what makes the most sense. But please. Give your thoughts. Bring up other things. While Silent Hill 2 has a special place in my heart, I do believe Three to be the best in the series. Silent Hill 2 just happens to be my favorite horror game of all time. But we have so much to discuss in this rich series. Let's open it up.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

Seeings how I'm a co-founder of this thread, I will ask a question that I've honestly debated and wondered about for years:

Does Silent Hill punish people concurrently?

To put is differently, is is possible NPCs found in Silent Hill aren't constructs of the town to interact with the player in meaningful ways, but indeed individually damned souls being put through the emotional meatgrinder as it were?

I offer two points of reference: Elle in Silent Hill Homecoming. While Alex is looking for his missing brother, she's looking for her missing sister. She tells you the town has changed, people are different, something strange is going on, be careful, and is shown in cut-scenes to be doing her own thing. She has her own family drama and arc and fate to meet in Homecoming. She's not an NPC created by Silent Hill, but someone else being put to the test like you, the player character.

Second, and this may damn me, but the movies. In the first movie the cult is part of the town, yes, but they're established to be people trapped in the town, not constructs to put Rose through the ringer.
Likewise in the under-rated sequel the manikin spider monster kills an entire group of 20 somethings simply because they got too close to Silent Hill.

My point is the town seems to be able to multitask. Is it not a relevant question, to you ObsidianJones and my fellow Escapers, to ask if its possible characters like Eddie or Laura, Angela and indeed Maria are their own person, not constructs of Silent Hill built to punish James, but unique in-universe people, drawn to Silent Hill to face their own, as yet, unplayed stories? And their stories don't end well. People die in Silent Hill, and that's the end of their redemption arc - No redemption.

Spoiler

I feel the need to play Devil's Advocate to myself over Elle. I would be remiss in my own claim if I didn't offer possible counter and indeed counter-counter claims.
To take from the soundtrack, Elle's Song, The song is written from the part of Elle, in-universe, addressing long time friend and lover Alex:
I'm glad you're here
I see you're well
And welcome home
Embrace your hell

This implies Elle is fully aware the town of both Silent Hill and Shepard's Glen are punishing Alex. Moreover it implies she knows about Joshua, his fate, and the intents of the towns for Alex. Moreover it implies she, Elle, is in on it and is either a construct of Silent Hill, or a willing participant if Alex's punishment.

However I counter my own claim with:
She's gone I fear
I think there's something wrong
Have you seen her?
She's been away too long

If Elle knows what Silent Hill and Shepard's Glen is about, she knows whats going on with her sister. So, Elle doesn't know what's going on. She's reaching out to Alex to help her, to answer her questions and find her sister.
Except in the original conception, she's supposed to be an older version of Laura, Laura Elizabeth Holloway, basically a Supernatural version of a Silent Hill hunter.

Also from Elle's Theme:
It feels good, just holding you
The romance with Alex is obvious. What that means for either a SH2 connection is beyond my pay-grade...

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

Seeings how I'm a co-founder of this thread, I will ask a question that I've honestly debated and wondered about for years:

Does Silent Hill punish people concurrently?

To put is differently, is is possible NPCs found in Silent Hill aren't constructs of the town to interact with the player in meaningful ways, but indeed individually damned souls being put through the emotional meatgrinder as it were?

I offer two points of reference: Elle in Silent Hill Homecoming. While Alex is looking for his missing brother, she's looking for her missing sister. She tells you the town has changed, people are different, something strange is going on, be careful, and is shown in cut-scenes to be doing her own thing. She has her own family drama and arc and fate to meet in Homecoming. She's not an NPC created by Silent Hill, but someone else being put to the test like you, the player character.

Second, and this may damn me, but the movies. In the first movie the cult is part of the town, yes, but they're established to be people trapped in the town, not constructs to put Rose through the ringer.
Likewise in the under-rated sequel the manikin spider monster kills an entire group of 20 somethings simply because they got too close to Silent Hill.

My point is the town seems to be able to multitask. Is it not a relevant question, to you ObsidianJones and my fellow Escapers, to ask if its possible characters like Eddie or Laura, Angela and indeed Maria are their own person, not constructs of Silent Hill built to punish James, but unique in-universe people, drawn to Silent Hill to face their own, as yet, unplayed stories? And their stories don't end well. People die in Silent Hill, and that's the end of their redemption arc - No redemption.

Spoiler

I feel the need to play Devil's Advocate to myself over Elle. I would be remiss in my own claim if I didn't offer possible counter and indeed counter-counter claims.
To take from the soundtrack, Elle's Song, The song is written from the part of Elle, in-universe, addressing long time friend and lover Alex:
I'm glad you're here
I see you're well
And welcome home
Embrace your hell

This implies Elle is fully aware the town of both Silent Hill and Shepard's Glen are punishing Alex. Moreover it implies she knows about Joshua, his fate, and the intents of the towns for Alex. Moreover it implies she, Elle, is in on it and is either a construct of Silent Hill, or a willing participant if Alex's punishment.

However I counter my own claim with:
She's gone I fear
I think there's something wrong
Have you seen her?
She's been away too long

If Elle knows what Silent Hill and Shepard's Glen is about, she knows whats going on with her sister. So, Elle doesn't know what's going on. She's reaching out to Alex to help her, to answer her questions and find her sister.
Except in the original conception, she's supposed to be an older version of Laura, Laura Elizabeth Holloway, basically a Supernatural version of a Silent Hill hunter.

Also from Elle's Theme:
It feels good, just holding you
The romance with Alex is obvious. What that means for either a SH2 connection is beyond my pay-grade...

I'm going to give you a definitive answer.

Yes it does.

For we know from several people that Silent Hill is a normal resort town from other characters in the series.

Harry Mason wanted to take Cheryl to the town as a vacation for both of them to take their minds off his wife dying.

Frank Sunderland is thought to be James' father. For one, same last name. And two, this quote from Silent Hill 4: The Room (critically underrated game)

"I got this photo from Sunderland, the superintendent. I heard his son and daughter-in-law disappeared in Silent Hill a few years back..."

Douglas Cartland and Heather checked into an Inn in Silent Hill 3. That means there was someone there to take their payment information.

The town exists in our reality. But through the power of Xuchilbara harnessed through Alessa, there is a pocket dimension that seems to be growing with time and possibly souls/the Order's mechanizations, using the imprint of Silent Hill as a forming point. Time has no meaning there. DJ Bobby Ricks explains it in an... annoying way.


If you have just one room that time has no meaning in, you could torture every soul that lived. If you could make a second last eons, there would be no limit on what you could do in that space. Theoretically, billions could be in the town of Silent Hill at the same place, yet time shifted so they would never overlap.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

SNIP

I guess my question is then why do we assume X or Y or Z has meaning to say James or Alex within the games? Any one person or item could be completely unrelated to them, and part of Silent Hill's plans for someone else.

So when we ask what does Angela represent to James, the answer could easily be nothing. She's someone else entirely and their meetings are incidental to what Silent Hill has planned for them.

 

[Major_Tom]

Sorry, I'm not buying it. There's not a single hint in the game to suggest that. It also adds nothing to the game, but it cheapens it considerably.

Spoiler: Spoiler... I guess?

J: I... I killed a... a human being... a human being...
E: LoL JK, I'm just an optical illuuuuusion!

Silent Hill is not Purgatory, it doesn't care for justice. It draws people for different reasons (like the guilt they feel), not because of their supposed crimes.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

SNIP

But Silent Hill games after 4 are still part of the continuity. Like the later Harry Potter novels being written with the movies in mind, you can't just ignore them because it doesn't fit the continuity you want.

Silent Hill basically is a purgatory for the Old Gods and angels to fuck with people.

Also where in SH3 is it established Heather is being dragged into another person's nightmare? What about all the people she encounters? Are they in the nightmare too?

 

[chocolate pickles]

Homecoming is an insult to the series, not worthy of consideration.

Based on 2, I don't see the town as an impartial, melicious entity that's own there to torture people. Rather, it's something more akin to Jigsaw - it punishes, but also redeems. That's why after James has been punished by being forced to watch Maria die repeatedly and admits his guilt, he's allowed to make piece with his wife and move on (IF you do everything right). Eddie, however, who is unwilling to accept his guilt or punishment, never gains his freedom.

 

[Sean Hollyman]

I'm a wimp who is shit scared of anything spooky, so the only game in the series I've properly played is Silent Hill 2. I know the story of the other games, but 1 and 3 just make me feel so uncomfortable I can't get very far in them. Silent Hill 2 has a perfect blend of eerie calm and downright horror that I can just about manage to wade my way through it. It's probably my favorite PS2 game next to Metal Gear Solid 3!

 

[Sean Hollyman]

SNIP

But Silent Hill games after 4 are still part of the continuity. Like the later Harry Potter novels being written with the movies in mind, you can't just ignore them because it doesn't fit the continuity you want.

Silent Hill basically is a purgatory for the Old Gods and angels to fuck with people.

Also where in SH3 is it established Heather is being dragged into another person's nightmare? What about all the people she encounters? Are they in the nightmare too?

Don't some of the games directly contradict stuff that's already happened, though? Origins does, iirc.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

SNIP

But Silent Hill games after 4 are still part of the continuity. Like the later Harry Potter novels being written with the movies in mind, you can't just ignore them because it doesn't fit the continuity you want.

Silent Hill basically is a purgatory for the Old Gods and angels to fuck with people.

Also where in SH3 is it established Heather is being dragged into another person's nightmare? What about all the people she encounters? Are they in the nightmare too?

Don't some of the games directly contradict stuff that's already happened, though? Origins does, iirc.

Maybe? I honestly couldn't say. There is so much fluff, so much canon, I'm sure every other line contradicts a line from another game.
and apparently people pick and choose which games they view as 'real' and which are 'dream' games. Its actually very Silent Hill of them come to think of it...

 

[Sean Hollyman]

SNIP

But Silent Hill games after 4 are still part of the continuity. Like the later Harry Potter novels being written with the movies in mind, you can't just ignore them because it doesn't fit the continuity you want.

Silent Hill basically is a purgatory for the Old Gods and angels to fuck with people.

Also where in SH3 is it established Heather is being dragged into another person's nightmare? What about all the people she encounters? Are they in the nightmare too?

Don't some of the games directly contradict stuff that's already happened, though? Origins does, iirc.

Maybe? I honestly couldn't say. There is so much fluff, so much canon, I'm sure every other line contradicts a line from another game.
and apparently people pick and choose which games they view as 'real' and which are 'dream' games. Its actually very Silent Hill of them come to think of it...

I guess as fans we can choose what we see as canon and what we see as crap you can ignore.

Like Metal Gear Solid V for instance, that never happened. Noooopeeee...

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

It?s too bad Konami self-imploded as a company, because 1-4 at least deserve a modern remaster. Such a classic series; far more interesting than RE, even in terms of gameplay since you?re actually allowed to move while shooting a gun.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Such a classic series; far more interesting than RE, even in terms of gameplay since you?re actually allowed to move while shooting a gun.

How does that make them more interesting? The gameplay mechanics have always been the worst part of the franchise. Sure, you can move and shoot, but you might as well be a dead deer in a shopping cart with how you maneuver.

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

Such a classic series; far more interesting than RE, even in terms of gameplay since you?re actually allowed to move while shooting a gun.

How does that make them more interesting? The gameplay mechanics have always been the worst part of the franchise. Sure, you can move and shoot, but you might as well be a dead deer in a shopping cart with how you maneuver.

SH has more interesting themes, locations, characters, music, and in terms of gameplay you could always move around and aim freely from the original onwards. Sure it was clumsy but not as bad as RE?s tank controls with obscure camera angles where you often had to run to a certain part of the room just to get it to switch so you could actually see an enemy behind you.

I liked RE as well but to me SH has always been more playable.

 

[Silvanus]

How the hell are these even in the same ballpark as what James did? Eddie killed a dog and injured a football player. For that henious crime, he deserves to go to Purgatory? Angela was sexually abused her entire life. She ran, and she was dragged back, beaten, and had to go through it all over again. As long as her brother and father lived, that would have been her life. It was self defense.... and for that, Silent Hill believes she deserves Purgatory? Not to mention the created emotional damage due to her years of abuse.

It makes more sense if Silent Hill 2 created everyone to just fuck with James.

I think you're making a fairly big erroneous assumption here: that "deserving" the punishment has anything to do with it at all. Silent Hill is not a truly moral adjudicator, seeking only the wicked. It itself is wicked. It abuses people because they're vulnerable.

Think of the Overlook Hotel in The Shining. It doesn't punish Jack because it judges him for being an alcoholic; it has its own reasons, unrelated to justice, and Jack's alcoholism merely gives it an in.

The only true "construct" is Maria, though other characters may be manipulated by the town.

 

[Casual Shinji]

SH has more interesting themes, locations, characters, music, and in terms of gameplay you could always move around and aim freely from the original onwards. Sure it was clumsy but not as bad as RE?s tank controls with obscure camera angles where you often had to run to a certain part of the room just to get it to switch so you could actually see an enemy behind you.

Aiming was pretty much the same though. Up, down, straight ahead, and pivot from side to side. It's not like you could pull off head shots.