The Sonic Problem.

[rossatdi]

Two things:

3

and

d.

Simple as. The first person to have suggested Sonic (famous for speedy, flowing platforming) should move to 3d should have been shot as an example.

I'm pretty certain i've never seen my thoughts quite so eloquently put.

I've never played Rush, but 2.5D Sonic would be the way forward. Albeit backwards.

Why thank you!

Its so simple I'd do if it I had the money/influence. Get the sonic team guys. Fill up a disc with stunningly beautiful 2d levels (think Braid) and away you go. Can you imagine a 20 hour package of epic sonic levels? I've had less exciting wet dreams (sorry, funny mood this morning).

 

[Proto Cloud]

I think the next should take him back to his roots and go for a 2.5D style like they did with Street Fighter 4. Because all of these 3D games are horrible and who decided that Knuckles would be fun to play as if he did scavenger hunts?

apparently you haven't played or HEARD of Sonic Rush. a 3D game on the DS which kicks much ass.

Sorry, but I haven't played with my DS since Phoenix Wright.

PS. Please don't threadstalk me.

 

[JediMB]

And Unleashed is NOT THAT BAD it is a GOOD GAME, as much as the Werehog is 'Unnecessary' it is not a game breaker, the combat is good, a little text book but not dull (To me) And the day stages where just awesome.

Haven't tried it yet, but I probably will. The Wii version, at least. But Secret Rings comes first.

Oh, and a were(man)hog(pig) is hardly the correct term to use for a hedgehog who transforms into a wolf.

 

[GloatingSwine]

What made Sonic 360 bad was the massive ammount of loading times, show stopping bugs, annoying characters, an out of date arcade style "lives" mechanism, and a lousy story.

And even worse camera, controls, level design, and character action design than ever.

Take, for example, a longstanding problem (since Sonic Adventure 2, in fact) with the controls, everything except jump is on a single button.

That means that if you try and use the light dash move in the air and press at anything other than exactly the right time, you get a bounce attack, and usually that means a plummet to instant death.

Why? There are two more face buttons on the controller that aren't mapped to anything. Even on the Megadrive there would have been a free face button left for a third action rather than stacking two on one button.

Also, if you don't line up perfectly for a light dash, you simply fly at an angle through the line of rings and once again plummet to instant death.

This, combined with the fact that these situations become more prevalent in Sonic 360 than ever, and that the simple process of making Sonic move is more finicky than ever due to his extremely high acceleration and inability to stop precisely make it frustrating and crap.

That is what's indicative of the real problems with Sonic. The games are made by utter morons.

But it's alright, I hear making sonic go faster will make it all better...

 

[Theo Samaritan]

Two things:

3

and

d.

Simple as. The first person to have suggested Sonic (famous for speedy, flowing platforming) should move to 3d should have been shot as an example.

I'm pretty certain i've never seen my thoughts quite so eloquently put.

I've never played Rush, but 2.5D Sonic would be the way forward. Albeit backwards.

THIS
And entire sonic game in decent 2.5D (and not like Rush, more like the side-scrolling sections of Unleashed) would be made of win. Pure and unadulterated.

 

[JediMB]

And Unleashed is NOT THAT BAD it is a GOOD GAME, as much as the Werehog is 'Unnecessary' it is not a game breaker, the combat is good, a little text book but not dull (To me) And the day stages where just awesome.

Haven't tried it yet, but I probably will. The Wii version, at least. But Secret Rings comes first.

Oh, and a were(man)hog(pig) is hardly the correct term to use for a hedgehog who transforms into a wolf.

Touche, unfortunately the Wii has more night stages than the PS360 version, yes their is an actual difference. the PS360 version has more content and more Day Stages.

My decision is partially based on that I only have a Wii so far, and partially because IGN gave the Wii version a 7.2 and the 360 version a 4.5.

 

[Wargamer]

One of the best levels in the Mega-Drive era was also, arguably, one of the slowest.

The Hydro City Zone was mostly under water, and as such quite 'slow' for a Sonic level. However, there were "Turbo-Charge" sections where you would build up speed, then let fly across a track. You'd go through loops, up / down ramps, and hit the surface of water-areas so fast you'd scream across like the water was solid ground.

This, I feel, is the right way to balance a Sonic game - you give us a bit of tricky platforming, then you slam on the Afterburners and let the player scream off at extreme speed, before slowing up a bit to get back into the platforms.

Think about it; the Megadrive games actually slowed you down a lot. Most often, it was because you ran face-first into a wall, which had to be jumped over / rolled through or whatever. However, the game quickly got you back up to speed. This stop-start nature wasn't a 'flaw' in the game design; it simply made it a challenge to get through the level at break-neck speed (and thus formed the foundation of some really top-notch Multiplayer action - trying to race through the Mystic Cave zone was hellish!).

Actually, while I'm on the subject of Multiplayer, Sonic 2 had it right. Sonic 3 gave us unique "race stages", and they sucked. Sonic 2 gave us full Zones, and that rocked. Part of the reason is that most of the Zones have a degree of multi-path gameplay to them. As such, you could wind up splitting up five seconds into the race and potentially not see your opponent for half the level. That was really fun - it became about not just waiting for the other guy to fail, but about working out the fastest route out of several possibilities. Also, some of the routes became unavailable if you were in second place (ie: needing a winch that the other guy was using).

All of that made Sonic 2's multiplayer really good. I don't recall any multi-path options in the later sonic games (although I've not really played them properly in fairness).

 

[rossatdi]

Sonic didn't make a good jump to 3D, same as Worms.

Or Lemmings... poor poor lemmings.

I'd forgotten about Worms. Fuck you 3d, fuck you!

 

[bue519]

All of your ideas would certainly help the sonic franchise. But, please no more Choa Garden.(its taken too much of my life already )

 

[rossatdi]

All of your ideas would certainly help the sonic franchise. But, please no more Choa Garden.(its taken too much of my life already )

No more goddamn Chao anything! That's it, I'm getting Sonic Team and locking them in a room (with some computers) until they get it right.

 

[rossatdi]

All of your ideas would certainly help the sonic franchise. But, please no more Choa Garden.(its taken too much of my life already )

No more goddamn Chao anything! That's it, I'm getting Sonic Team and locking them in a room (with some computers) until they get it right.

But they are so CUTE!

Spoiler: Bloody things

LOOK AT IT!
[img src=http://ui10.gamespot.com/1225/picsshinysonic_2.jpg][/spoiler][/quote]

[b]BURN THEM, BURN THEM ALL[/b]

 

[acsguitar]

Sonic Doesn't work in 3D. The new game is AWFUL. Seriously. I really tried to like it. And I guess some parts weren't all AWFUL. But over all its awful

 

[GloatingSwine]

But they are so CUTE!

LOOK AT IT!
[/QUOTE]

Ak! I can feel it boring into my very soul!

 

[Sensenmann]

It was better when they stuck to tighter spaces in 2D. Although I havent actually played any 3D ones, but people call them crap. One of my friends says its because of the sonic heroes.

 

[Erana]

Just answer me this:
Is it possible to translate the original Sconic goodness into a non-sidescrolling game?

 

[ranger19]

You know what I think would really be a good move for the next Sonic game?

Make it sidescrolling again. Sure, it can keep 3-D graphics, just take away the stupid behind-the-character view. The only good Sonic games were the sidescrolling ones.

So you want Rush on a console then?

Personally, I would love Rush on a console... I think. It's so awesome on the DS right now though that I'm worried it would somehow get messed up in translation and I would be extremely disappointed.

What made Sonic 360 bad was the massive ammount of loading times, show stopping bugs, annoying characters, an out of date arcade style "lives" mechanism, and a lousy story.

And even worse camera, controls, level design, and character action design than ever.

Take, for example, a longstanding problem (since Sonic Adventure 2, in fact) with the controls, everything except jump is on a single button.

That means that if you try and use the light dash move in the air and press at anything other than exactly the right time, you get a bounce attack, and usually that means a plummet to instant death.

Why? There are two more face buttons on the controller that aren't mapped to anything. Even on the Megadrive there would have been a free face button left for a third action rather than stacking two on one button.

Also, if you don't line up perfectly for a light dash, you simply fly at an angle through the line of rings and once again plummet to instant death.

This, combined with the fact that these situations become more prevalent in Sonic 360 than ever, and that the simple process of making Sonic move is more finicky than ever due to his extremely high acceleration and inability to stop precisely make it frustrating and crap.

That is what's indicative of the real problems with Sonic. The games are made by utter morons.

But it's alright, I hear making sonic go faster will make it all better...

Haha! I agree with you completely. My friends over the summer decided they wanted to beat Sonic 360 for some reason. They were determined. I played a Sliver level or two to help out, but it was just so bad! Running through the same generic cityscape killing bad guys.. and not having any direct attacks? Having to pick up boxes to throw at enemies every single time? Really?

All of your ideas would certainly help the sonic franchise. But, please no more Choa Garden.(its taken too much of my life already )

I agree. They're a lot of fun, incredibly addicting, and if you hate them for who-knows-what reason, they're COMPLETELY out of your way. If I recall correctly, you could basically go through all of Sonic Adventure without doing one thing with a chao. And the VMU minigames where you could hook them up all tomagachi-style was pretty fun too.

Just answer me this:
Is it possible to translate the original Sconic goodness into a non-sidescrolling game?

Honestly, I think it is. I think Sonic Adventure did a pretty good job, and most importantly, I think people need to remember that what made the original Sonic games so fun wasn't that they were fast all the time - sure they were fast sometimes, but that wasn't the entire game. If devs and fans alike could remember this, it could go a long way in helping the franchise.

 

[ranger19]

One of the best levels in the Mega-Drive era was also, arguably, one of the slowest.

The Hydro City Zone was mostly under water, and as such quite 'slow' for a Sonic level. However, there were "Turbo-Charge" sections where you would build up speed, then let fly across a track. You'd go through loops, up / down ramps, and hit the surface of water-areas so fast you'd scream across like the water was solid ground.

This, I feel, is the right way to balance a Sonic game - you give us a bit of tricky platforming, then you slam on the Afterburners and let the player scream off at extreme speed, before slowing up a bit to get back into the platforms.

Think about it; the Megadrive games actually slowed you down a lot. Most often, it was because you ran face-first into a wall, which had to be jumped over / rolled through or whatever. However, the game quickly got you back up to speed. This stop-start nature wasn't a 'flaw' in the game design; it simply made it a challenge to get through the level at break-neck speed (and thus formed the foundation of some really top-notch Multiplayer action - trying to race through the Mystic Cave zone was hellish!).

I wanted to reply to this separately because 1) I agree with a lot of what's being said here, and 2) the other post was getting really long.

The alternating of speed/platforming you remember may be exactly what needs to come back. Fans seem to forget the platforming part, but it could be a lot of fun, and I definitely think this could be translated into 3-D. (Look at the opening beach level in Sonic Adventure - a lot of speedy parts, but at least a little platforming too.) This is really important; perhaps one of the most important things.

Actually, while I'm on the subject of Multiplayer, Sonic 2 had it right. Sonic 3 gave us unique "race stages", and they sucked. Sonic 2 gave us full Zones, and that rocked. Part of the reason is that most of the Zones have a degree of multi-path gameplay to them. As such, you could wind up splitting up five seconds into the race and potentially not see your opponent for half the level. That was really fun - it became about not just waiting for the other guy to fail, but about working out the fastest route out of several possibilities. Also, some of the routes became unavailable if you were in second place (ie: needing a winch that the other guy was using).

All of that made Sonic 2's multiplayer really good. I don't recall any multi-path options in the later sonic games (although I've not really played them properly in fairness).

There's a lot of really good stuff in here, and I admit to have forgotten about 2-D sonic multiplayer when thinking about multiplayer in the OP. This would give a lot of motivation for replaying games - learning the secret paths, cutting off seconds of time.. sure, time trials might make you do that too, but they don't have nearly as much inspiration as the desire to beat your trash-talking friend.

To be sure, I think parts of the multiplayer in SA2B were fun; when you're speeding right in step with your opponent, that really makes you not want to mess up, because one little mistake would cost you the lead. But certainly branching levels could (and would) be fun too. I'd imagine a bunch of levels which included both types of play (right next to your opponent, branching paths, even sometimes both in one level?) could add to the variety and depth of the experience, which would be a huge plus.

Finally, I wouldn't mind if they decided to use separate maps for multiplayer levels if they wanted to tweak them to make them more appropriate for multiplayer, but including in some form or another every level from the single player to me seems like a must.

 

[wsd1012]

Has anyone thought that maybe we have just out grown sonic as a whole. i mean Mario is getting bland and samey maybe we should retire the old game series and create new ones.