The Switch: 3 Classic Characters That Should Be Gender Swapped

shirkbot

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Falterfire said:
Because characters (especially comic book superheroes) don't exist in a vacuum but rather as a part of a larger world. Changing genders (or race or social class or nationality or any number of other things) in theory allows for stories to be told from more perspectives. Of course, as with any fictional story, how effective that is depends in large part on the author's experiences and knowledge and how skilled they are.
See now, that's an interesting point. I see gender and races as functionally identical per social strata and cultural background. A white, middle-class character, male or female, is going to be broadly the same (increasingly so over time). I would actually love to see an Iron Man based in India or Catwoman in Saudi Arabia because that, to my mind, would be a much greater change than a simple gender swap, and allows for a much broader examination of contemporary issues. A dirt poor Batman could be amazing! Just some kid with dead parents that figures out how to develop complex gadgetry, selling it to keep themselves afloat, and using it at night to be the Dark Knight. But make Bruce Wayne a woman and you get some scenes of grumpy old men in a meeting room being irate about having to follow the direction of "some skirt." I'm sorry, I might be off topic now...
 

Lono Shrugged

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wetfart said:
Wasn't there already a female punisher? Lynn Michaels?
There was also a great story on Ennis' run about an abused mob wife who hunts and kills the woman who manipulated her into marrying into the mob (There is more to it than that.)

In my favorite iterations of The Punisher (Max mostly, Jason Aaron wrote him fantastically) his masculinity is his defining trait. He represents the extreme of power and endurance. But at the same time is emotionally a void. He is not an expert martial artist, he just is vicious and strong. A blunt object pounding his foes into submission. He also serves as a framing device for other's stories. He is a deep black pool with little reflection and he cannot deal with emotions in a rational, human way. He is an allegory for the consuming force of war and violence, represented by his dark days in Vietnam.

I certainly would like to see a female take on a character like that. Maybe an Israeli woman moving to Brooklyn to look after her murdered brother's children who get's caught up looking for his killers while obligated to lead a normal life she is not cut out for. Throw in some religious stuff, a person who does has forgotten how to be a human, let alone a mother and bang that's a comic book. But when you say "Punisher" I think Vietnam. Punisher is a man. He HAS to be a man.

As for the other 2. I don't see the benefit. Gender swapping to me makes as much difference as playing Male or Female Shep. Stop trying to wedge gender motivations where they don't belong. Even Huntress. Create new characters that can stand by themselves. It's easy! Gender swapping is a very cheap and lazy way to appear inclusive. Social justice shit again without looking at the practical side.
 

Waaghpowa

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Apr 13, 2010
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Aside from the previously mentioned female Punisher, they kind made a new female Punisher in one of the most recent releases.

http://marvel.wikia.com/Rachel_Cole_(Earth-616)

She isn't technically the Punisher, but she does the same stuff and goes off to California to basically do what Frank does in New York.
 

Baresark

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I honestly would expect geekdom to care that much about Danger Mouse. Mostly, geekdom is OK with whatever, in my experience. I know it's popular to call people sexist and racist in these columns, but the vast majority of us are not. I have never met anyone who was upset about a gender switch of someone like Captain Marvel. Danger Mouse isn't even a conversation starter for me. If you were gender swap any of those characters, it wouldn't cause any waves. Gender is only a big deal for ultra leftists and and ultra rightists. Everyone in the middle (ie, the vast majority of people) is pretty much going to fine with it.
 

The Bucket

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Wolverines son Daken fits the male Catwoman mode pretty well, frequently using his sexuality as a weapon
 

Tireseas_v1legacy

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Sep 28, 2009
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They already made a female Punisher:
See for yourself.
 

dragonswarrior

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Feb 13, 2012
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SourMilk said:
Ha!! An appropriate application of Aikido, or any comparable martial art and that beefcake wouldn't have had a chance.

Everyone's always so obsessed with the striking...
 

dragonswarrior

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SourMilk said:
dragonswarrior said:
SourMilk said:
Ha!! An appropriate application of Aikido, or any comparable martial art and that beefcake wouldn't have had a chance.

Everyone's always so obsessed with the striking...
And everyone likes to talk the talk but doesn't walk the walk. I can tell you have never been in many real life fights.
*eyebrow raised* Oh? Do explain how you arrived at this assumption please.
 

Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
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dragonswarrior said:
Catman and Female Punisher are things I would love to see.

Also, I really need to track down this Wonder Woman story sometime, I keep hearing about it and want to see if it's good...
I'm all for a shamless female revenge fantasy

[i/]however[/i]

the whole "rape as motivation" thing is....a prickly topic, I can understand the reservation there, but I don't know the rage that female aren't expected to show is something I'd like to be explored
The Gentleman said:
They already made a female Punisher:
See for yourself.
huh....interesting...
Lono Shrugged said:
There was also a great story on Ennis' run about an abused mob wife who hunts and kills the woman who manipulated her into marrying into the mob (There is more to it than that.)
.
that sounds cool...having never read punisher before is there an antry point? like say a trade paperback? does the arc have a name?

for somone who deals witht the violent and grotesuqe....Ennis always seemed to be able to write women (more or less well anyhow)
 

Pogilrup

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In the early Batman comics, Catwoman had a brother, Karl Kyle, assume the alias, the King of Cats, trying to ape her style and outdo her at thievery.
 

Tireseas_v1legacy

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Vault101 said:
The Gentleman said:
They already made a female Punisher:
See for yourself.
huh....interesting...
Yeah. It pretty much was the Punisher down to the obscene amount of firearms and ordinance utilized and the revenge/vigilante-focused plot. It even has her family gunned down in the opening (twice actually). She's literally one skull-T-Shirt away from making Frank Castle look like pacifist...
 

aba1

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CaptainMarvelous said:
There IS a gender-swapped Punisher. Rachel Cole-Alves? From the 2011 series? Seriously man, read a comic book.
THANK YOU!

OT: I don't know much about Nexus but Catwoman is meant to be a super feminine character I don't think it makes much sense for her to be gender swapped it would be like gender swapping He-man or something. I guess if you were doing it be weird or ironic it could work but it would just seem strange.
 

nightmare_gorilla

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so we're getting the mandatory "click bait" article out of the way for the week, ok. look major changes to superheroes are always a hard sell people have a tendency to lock their heroes into certain interpretations and at set points. I still more or less think of cap in his traditional uniform despite the marvel now and live action versions of his costume. venom will always be eddie brock to some people even though currently flash Thompson has the symbiote as agent venom. and no matter how good a new series is taking a chick and swapping her with a dude will always be seen as sexist because reasons. a female form of the punisher? isn't that basically black widow? i'm all for creating more heroes if you want more often times they are better because they're free to explore new ideas. look at the new ms. marvel, aside from her name she is basically her own hero. miles morales IS a new hero dealing with the shadow of peter parker but still gets to do his own thing. terry mcguiness or batman beyond is one of my favorite heroes right now his comic kicks ass, because he's his own man, he's different, they showed that perfectly in the return of the joker movie, terry can't outbatman batman, he can't beat the joker the same way bruce would so he bantered, something batman never thought to try. he fought dirty, he mocked the joker. you want a new take on things fine, bring on some new super heroes but fucking up existing heroes in the name of "diversity" is BS and it's more or less just trolling.
 

Lono Shrugged

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Vault101 said:
huh....interesting...
Lono Shrugged said:
There was also a great story on Ennis' run about an abused mob wife who hunts and kills the woman who manipulated her into marrying into the mob (There is more to it than that.)
.
that sounds cool...having never read punisher before is there an antry point? like say a trade paperback? does the arc have a name?

for somone who deals witht the violent and grotesuqe....Ennis always seemed to be able to write women (more or less well anyhow)
The arc was called widowmaker and you can get the trade pretty cheap.
It's not the best story on the run (I think it's one of the weakest) There are some great female characters throughout including a damaged ex-C.I.A. agent who connects with Frank because he is as broken as she is. Also an arc where they explore human traffiking (This was 2004) Ennis can be hit and miss with female characters. But when he gets them, he nails them. He makes them tough without losing the things that make them women. You can get any single trade on the run, (It's a ten trade run) but I would suggest starting at the start. There is a running plot, but every episode is pretty much self contained so you won't be too lost.

I would suggest reading Ennis' whole run and Jason Aaron's run under PunisherMax. Ennis' Frank is a cold, emotionless death machine who sometimes shows his compassion and humanity. (usually in violent ways) Very similar to Judge Dredd when he is written by Wagner. Aaron's run explores who Castle is and why. With a great running plot against The Kingpin and a disturbing and hilarious Bullseye.

It has some emotional gut punches and sees The Punisher homeless and harried before an awesome climax. Great reading there with some great female characters throughout. It's a 4 trade series with a running plot so I would start at the start.