The System Shock Remake - Lost in Space

[PsychedelicDiamond]

There doesn't seem to be a thread about it yet, so let's go:

I've been playing the newly released remake of System Shock 1 lately. I don't have any history with the original, which came out literally one year after I was born, and it always looked to me just a tad too archaic to go back to. Don't get me wrong, if I put my mind to it I could certainly play it and probably even finish it, I just don't reckon I'd be enjoying myself very much. Which is why I've been interested in the remake ever since I heard it was in production, considering I do like SS2 quite a bit and at least in theory SS1 intrigued me.

So, after a reportedly pretty rocky development cycle it's out and yet even more surprisingly, it turned out really well!

Wile I can't judge its fidelity to the original version, coming into it only familiar with its official and spiritual successors, it's interesting to see where it all spawned from.

It's thought of as the great grandfather of what, thanks to Warren Spector, we're still calling Immersive Sims (a term which never made any sense, but whatever) but it doesn't exactly fit into that genre. If an ImSim is a style of game that offers manifold solutions to each given problem, SS1 had entirely different priorities. If in a game like Deus Ex you're meant to enter a locked room, it might give you the choice to pick the lock, look around for a key, blow up the door, hack the computer controlling the lock or crawl through an airvent into the room, System Shock has exactly one way to enter it, and it's usually finding the correct key(card).

Let me put it that way: There's a parallel universe where System Shock is an official 3D Metroid game. It has the basic progression of a Metroidvania. You explore a space station. You look for upgrades that will either assist you in combat or help you get places. Sometimes, you backtrack with these upgrades to get to places you couldn't before.

It's such an odd game to play from a modern perspective, because while its influences can be seen practically everywhere there is nothing to my knowledge that plays quite like it. Bioshock, the first one that is, feels like a very streamlined version of the same principle. But where Bioshock was a linear or at the very least very guided tour through the sunken city of Rapture, the Citadel Space Station in System Shock is a claustrophobic, labyrinthine sprawl that you are very much meant to get lost in.

And what a beautiful setting it is. With improved, if stylized, graphics, the art team behind this remake get to really indulge in their homage to dystopian 80's science fiction. There is something beautiful to how tactile all the technology looks. I felt similarly about Alien Isolation and Cyberpunk 2077, it's not as smooth and rounded as the modern vision of futuristic technology but full of pipes and buttons and little lamps and... listen, the more I play it the more I want to touch literally everything.

The setting very much is the centerpiece of the game, especially considering the villainous AI SHODAN, for lack of a physical body, has weaponized the environment itself against the player. She can't kill you, but she has got an entire space station full of things that can at her command. A small army of mutants and corrupted robots whose AI is very minimal, yet nevertheless present a threat on account of the players limited ressources and the cramped environments that leave little place to avoid them.

The original System Shock was, as far I'm aware, an evolution of classic PC dungeon crawlers, a genre I'm completely unfamiliar with, but experiencing this modern reconstruction that is nevertheless so committed to its source material really makes you realize how unique it is. It foregoes the more cinematic pacing conventions of its succesors in favour of something the players relationship to his environment. It's SHODAN's labyrinth and to her you might as well be a rat. For all you know you're the only living being on what was practically an entire city in space. The complete lack of story related downtime makes Citadel a more opressive place than one like Rapture could ever be.

All that puts the System Shock remake in the surprisingly long line of really good remakes that came out recently. It's the perfect game if you always wanted to experience the original System Shock but we're put off by just how much it has aged.

 

[BrawlMan]

we're still calling Immersive Sims (a term which never made any sense, but whatever) but it doesn't exactly fit into that genre.

Same here. I never got that, nor why it stuck around this long. Yeah, you're doing more than just shooting and "going through levels", but at that point it's a metroidvania.

Let me put it that way: There's a parallel universe where System Shock is an official 3D Metroid game. It has the basic progression of a Metroidvania. You explore a space station. You look for upgrades that will either assist you in combat or help you get places. Sometimes, you backtrack with these upgrades to get to places you couldn't before.

Strange minds think alike.

 

[Chimpzy]

Played and finished it. It's a good remake. Updating where needed without compromising on the original design. I much enjoyed shanking things with my pink lasershiv.

Spoiler

Tho imo the final boss sucks. It's in cyberspace, which ok fine, I could get behind taking the fight to SHODANs turf. But instead of the Descent style gameplay you get regular fps gameplay, except you lose all the stuff you gathered, replaced by a slow firing laser which you use to plink away at cyber-cuttlefish SHODAN while waves of the regular cyberspace enemies spawn, which you then plink away at from behind a corner. It is slow, dull and laughably easy compared to the rest of the endgame.

Yeah, you're doing more than just shooting and "going through levels", but at that point it's a metroidvania.

Hmm, not really. One of the hallmarks of metroidvanias is that you progress by upgrading your abilities or gaining new ones, wheras in a proper ImSim you should theoretically be able to complete the game with just your starting kit and no upgrades at all. And as Psychedelic said, an ImSim should offer multiple valid solutions for any given problem, whereas a metroidvania usually only has one solutions i.e. you blow the door with the power bomb as intended, or it stays shut. Sequence breaking to get the ability early does not change that that door has one solution.

 

[meiam]

Hmm, not really. One of the hallmarks of metroidvanias is that you progress by upgrading your abilities or gaining new ones, wheras in a proper ImSim you should theoretically be able to complete the game with just your starting kit and no upgrades at all. And as Psychedelic said, an ImSim should offer multiple valid solutions for any given problem, whereas a metroidvania usually only has one solutions i.e. you blow the door with the power bomb as intended, or it stays shut. Sequence breaking to get the ability early does not change that that door has one solution.

I'd say many metroidvania have multiple way to get in an area depending on what upgrade you have and so you could say technically they have multiple solution sometime.

I do agree that the two genre share a lot of overlap, but I'd say I get different experience out of them. Personally an important aspect of an immersive sim is that the area you're going trough have a real purpose, ie an office, a factory a park or w/e and are build in a way that sesible for those purpose (as oppose to dracula library, which no human could ever use). The multiple solution arise naturally from the fact that the area isn't though of as a linear corridor for player to go trough but rather as an area that normal human would work in and therefore has multiple security vulnerability. The upgrade system then come in to offer you more solution in a way that expand as you play the game (so that gameplay doesn't get stale) while also offering a good reason to fully explore areas rather than just bee line the end. Area then have lore, enviornmental storytelling and interesting Easter egg spread throughout them to be discovered (which very few metroidvania have).

 

[sXeth]

The ImSims back in the day mostly differentiated themselves from ya know, Doom/Hexen/Wolfenstein/Unreal by either/both having environments instead of levels (though mileage would vary) or trying to expand beyond FPS mechanics. Also tending to have less enemies because that stuff takes resources you can't use to render demon armies. (To an extent it was also a double back to Ultima Underworld, which preeminently influenced iD, but was in itself was an RPG with ya know, items, and interactions and puzzles and such)

Probably by 2023 here its not a huge distinction to say a lot of that specific split isn't really there anymore outside of the indie tiers as even the arena/combat focused shooters have kind of caught up to that idea as development of both is now a possibility.

 

[BrawlMan]

The ImSims back in the day mostly differentiated themselves from ya know, Doom/Hexen/Wolfenstein/Unreal by either/both having environments instead of levels (though mileage would vary) or trying to expand beyond FPS mechanics. Also tending to have less enemies because that stuff takes resources you can't use to render demon armies. (To an extent it was also a double back to Ultima Underworld, which preeminently influenced iD, but was in itself was an RPG with ya know, items, and interactions and puzzles and such)

Probably by 2023 here its not a huge distinction to say a lot of that specific split isn't really there anymore outside of the indie tiers as even the arena/combat focused shooters have kind of caught up to that idea as development of both is now a possibility.

Took the words right out of my mouth. The line between these genres have been blurred since the start of the 7th generation.

 

[sXeth]

Took the words right out of my mouth. The line between these genres have been blurred since the start of the 7th generation.

Yeah, you could draw a distinction between Prey/Deathloop and Doom Eternal, but it'd be more of a focus thing? They both contain much of the same elements just one moves action gameplay to prominence and the other tries to put its story, or puzzles in moreos. (Argue all day whether thats a focus point or just being bad at the other end that stops them doing both).

The old FPS "here's a seriees of textured walls meaant to vaguely invoke a castle or something" really isn't a thing outside of deliberate throwbacks or occasional roguelikes in terms of level design. And you'd be hard pressed to find FPS's that don't have some kind of expansion (however silly it seems, like nu-Wolfenstein's stealth) into broader mechanics.

The biggest problems I have with a lot of the more modern imSim influenced games is their shooting is usually abysmal, and they stick a bunch of other gimmicks in them that also aren't particularly usable/fleshed out/fun.

I'd argue that Half Life was the game that basically obliterated the distinction by being probably the first to merge the philosophies. (which in turn informs my perspective on System Shock 2, which came out later, as too late to the party and not good enough at either component to really stand out)

 

[Samtemdo8]

Wonder if Bioshock 1 and 2 will ever get remade because they ran on Unreal Engine 2.5 and that's starting to show its age. And I don't mean visually, I mean more how just the general gameplay doesn't feel as tight as it should be compared to other shooters.

 

[BrawlMan]

Wonder if Bioshock 1 and 2 will ever get remade because they ran on Unreal Engine 2.5 and that's starting to show its age. And I don't mean visually, I mean more how just the general gameplay doesn't feel as tight as it should be compared to other shooters.

I doubt it considering the remaster collection already exists. That didn't stop certain other remakes, don't get me wrong, but there's really that much to improve other than some shooting. The shooting in those games weren't exactly bad either. Not the best, but better than most of the cover shooters that came out around that time.

Yeah, you could draw a distinction between Prey/Deathloop and Doom Eternal, but it'd be more of a focus thing? They both contain much of the same elements just one moves action gameplay to prominence and the other tries to put its story, or puzzles in moreos. (Argue all day whether thats a focus point or just being bad at the other end that stops them doing both).

The old FPS "here's a seriees of textured walls meaant to vaguely invoke a castle or something" really isn't a thing outside of deliberate throwbacks or occasional roguelikes in terms of level design. And you'd be hard pressed to find FPS's that don't have some kind of expansion (however silly it seems, like nu-Wolfenstein's stealth) into broader mechanics

Exactly! It's not the 90s or early 2000s anymore. All these genres and games have taken so much influences from each other, that it doesn't matter much anymore. There'll be some slight or major differences, yes, but ImSim might as well be Metroidvania with a fancy hat at this point.

The biggest problems I have with a lot of the more modern imSim influenced games is their shooting is usually abysmal, and they stick a bunch of other gimmicks in them that also aren't particularly usable/fleshed out/fun.

I'd argue that Half Life was the game that basically obliterated the distinction by being probably the first to merge the philosophies. (which in turn informs my perspective on System Shock 2, which came out later, as too late to the party and not good enough at either component to really stand out)

Take this to the hot takes, pronto!

 

[Dalisclock]

Played and finished it. It's a good remake. Updating where needed without compromising on the original design. I much enjoyed shanking things with my pink lasershiv.

Spoiler

Tho imo the final boss sucks. It's in cyberspace, which ok fine, I could get behind taking the fight to SHODANs turf. But instead of the Descent style gameplay you get regular fps gameplay, except you lose all the stuff you gathered, replaced by a slow firing laser which you use to plink away at cyber-cuttlefish SHODAN while waves of the regular cyberspace enemies spawn, which you then plink away at from behind a corner. It is slow, dull and laughably easy compared to the rest of the endgame.

Hmm, not really. One of the hallmarks of metroidvanias is that you progress by upgrading your abilities or gaining new ones, wheras in a proper ImSim you should theoretically be able to complete the game with just your starting kit and no upgrades at all. And as Psychedelic said, an ImSim should offer multiple valid solutions for any given problem, whereas a metroidvania usually only has one solutions i.e. you blow the door with the power bomb as intended, or it stays shut. Sequence breaking to get the ability early does not change that that door has one solution.

To be fair, the final boss battle in the OG version wasn't particularly good either. So I guess some things haven't changed.

 

[sXeth]

Take this to the hot takes, pronto!

Which one? Both of those are pretty lukewarm at best. Half-life having essentially dragged FPS's out of the "shoot things in the rando hallways" could be put in your drink on a summer day to keep it chill. And SS2 has its fanboys but its a hardcore niche of people (generally born of the late 80s, which I myself funnily fit in) who are really insistent that the jankfest transitory periods of 1997-2003* were somehow the pinnacle of all gaming because they were the teenagers then

(*Seriously, outside of a bare handful who were leading the curve, this was just the messiest period of ambition exceeds vision and/or budget, or developers struggling to adapt to actual 3d engines)

 

[BrawlMan]

Which one?

Both, but more so the first paragraph.

Both of those are pretty lukewarm at best. Half-life having essentially dragged FPS's out of the "shoot things in the rando hallways" could be put in your drink on a summer day to keep it chill. And SS2 has its fanboys but its a hardcore niche of people (generally born of the late 80s, which I myself funnily fit in) who are really insistent that the jankfest transitory periods of 1997-2003* were somehow the pinnacle of all gaming because they were the teenagers then

(*Seriously, outside of a bare handful who were leading the curve, this was just the messiest period of ambition exceeds vision and/or budget, or developers struggling to adapt to actual 3d engines)

Don't let that stop you. There are quite a few that are still overly defensive when it comes ImSim and SS2.

 

[Chimpzy]

To be fair, the final boss battle in the OG version wasn't particularly good either. So I guess some things haven't changed.

True, tho I kind of like that in the OG version your view will slowly turn into a visage of SHODAN to represent her her counterhacking and taking over your mind, and if the image fills the screen it's an instant game over. I mean, its kind of bs and pretty much anathema to modern gaming sensibilities, but also feels appropriate for who you're fighting.

 

[BrawlMan]

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[BrawlMan]

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[BrawlMan]

@PsychedelicDiamond. This a long one and you'll love it. It's highly educational too.

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[PsychedelicDiamond]

@PsychedelicDiamond. This a long one and you'll love it. It's highly educational too.

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Nice. I'll give it a watch.

 

[BrawlMan]

Nice. I'll give it a watch.

Enjoy whenever you can. I finished the video last night. Monty is really throrough in this video. Even more than usual. You can tell he is a big fan.