The terms "Casual" & "Hardcore".

[blushmoe]

One thing i can't stand in the current world of gaming, why do we lump games into casual & Hardcore. The past 2 weeks, i have been playing a lot of Plants vs Zombies on Steam. During this process, so many of my Steam friends messaged me asking "Why don't you play real games?".

These same people, I've in the past seen play Call of Duty non-stop on release. So just because i game can be played by everyone makes it a "Casual" game in which hardcore gamers can spit on. How is call of Duty not a casual game. You treat it like a hobby & play it with your time off when you are bored. How am I not doing the same with PvZ or Peggle or any of those simple games? People also make the debate "It's just a time wasting game and has no story or purpose" Well then what about every online FPS, DOTA clone & RTS???

Plants Vs Zombies is an excellent game. Sure it gets boring, but i think it was a step-up in tower defense games and in the future, this genre will change a lot to meet-up with the success of this small indie game.

Another favorite thing I like to do with some friends around, sit around and play some Mario Party 2 to escape from out lives problem and remember back to the good ol' days of university playing this. One time we needed a forth & asked my friends 16 yr old brother if he would like to join us. He said something along the lines of "casual much" and walked away. Even tho he doesn't see the level of competitiveness this game can bring, especially if you have been playing it for 10 years.

Am I fucken missing something here? Just cause you label yourself as a hardcore gamer means you have to spit on games that are not as advanced? That you aren't even allowed to play them and that doing so should be something to be ashamed about.

Anyways, what are your views on this. Am i just being a mongoloid? Or do you guys see where I am coming from.

 

[Bobic]

Just out of curiosity, why are you friends (even if it is just steam friends) with such twonks? Can't you just laugh at their idiocy, delete them and move on?

 

[similar.squirrel]

Please don't use the term 'mongoloid' in a derogatory context.


Anyway.. Identifying oneself as a 'hardcore' gamer always struck me as being a great deal more embarrassing than admitting that you play casually. I hate to be judgemental [actually, I don't], but a person who spends 30 hours a week pretending to be an elf or a maverick US marine is considerably more pathetic than somebody who dabbles in whatever game takes his fancy without the overwhelming desire to be good at it.
Living and breathing a fabricated world is not entirely healthy. Doing a bit of everything is a whole lot more balanced, and it can help you avoid the 'nerd' stigma.

 

[Vampire cat]

You are not being a mongoloid. Your friends however... I'm not intending to be rude, but their view on this is silly and childish... And though I can understand the terms "casual gamer" and "hardcore gamer", I do not think you can lump any games on their own into any of these categories. My friends and I have 3 "categories" we group gamers in X3:

---

I see myself as a casual gamer, a casual gamer being someone that enjoy games on a regular basis, but still dedicating most of their off time to other activities. A casual gamer still enjoy games much more frequently than the average person, but they do not dedicate themselves to gaming and possibly have multiple other hobbies and activities.

A hardcore gamer I would say is someone that spend most off time on gaming, and take their games more seriously. I have friends that will really go into getting the best and unlock the latest in their games, and I see these friends as "hardcore" (even though I don't really like that word =3) gamers.

"Elitist gamers" is a term that people around me use anyway, and it's concerning people that dedicate all available time to their gaming. I'm sure these 3 definitions are not agreed upon by most people here on the Escapist, but this is how my friends/aquaintances and I talk about these 3 types of gamers. I know one "Elitist" gamer myself, and he has a tendancy to take the games he plays VERY seriously, and always strive to perform as good as possible in said game. This makes it less enjoyable for me and my casual gaming friends to play with him as our lacking skills (compared to his I guess) will cause him to become angry at times when we do not do well enough =3.

---

Again, i dont think you can put games themselves into these categories. We already have some for games and they are FPS, RTS, MMO, RPG, indie, simulation and so on... No need to group these further I think ^^.

I for example think that a person that plays "Angry Birds" CAN be a gamer. That said I don't feel "casual gamer" is a term to be applied to anyone that occasionally plays a game, I would expect them to do so several times a week possibly once every day in order for me to see them as a gamer (5 minutes of Angry Bird on the bus each morning though?... No). I think it's hard for anyone to be a "gamer" purely based on iPhone games, but I'm sure out there somewhere there are people so dedicated to their iPhone games they can even be called hardcore ^^.

Please don't use the term 'mongoloid' in a derogatory context.


Anyway.. Identifying oneself as a 'hardcore' gamer always struck me as being a great deal more embarrassing than admitting that you play casually. I hate to be judgemental [actually, I don't], but a person who spends 30 hours a week pretending to be an elf or a maverick US marine is considerably more pathetic than somebody who dabbles in whatever games takes his fancy without the overwhelming desire to be good at it.
Living and breathing a fabricated world is not entirely healthy. Doing a bit of everything is a whole lot more balanced, and it can help you avoid the 'nerd' stigma.

Personally I'm a big fan of role playing, and I do wish I could do more of it(!), and I can't really agree with you that it's more pathetic to spend 30 hours a week roleplaying an Elf than it is... Roleplaying David Beckham?... Playing football X3. They are both (for most) hobbies, and something that people involved in them enjoy while doing.

What I WOULD consider "pathetic" is when any of these (or other past times!) get so centered in someones mind that their social (and possibly work) life gets pushed aside to make room for it. I always feel a bit sad when people have pushed away all their friends on some obsessive interest, and is suddenly left alone when it blows over. It's hard to get back in touch with friends you haven't talked to for years, things change. I see this most frequently with people getting boyfriends or girlfriends actually... They focus ALL their time on the new partner, ignoring other people and duties. My cousin did this, and suddenly after a few years he was thrown out of his girlfriends apartment after they broke up, left with not a single friend he had talked to for as long as he had been in the relationship... THAT is sad and pathetic, roleplaying is not =3.

 

[zuro64]

For me Casual & Hardcore gaming isent determind by what games you play but by how often you play and how interested in games and gaming you are! So for me you are a hardcore gamer if you play PvZ 24/7 then if you play CoD an hour or two every now and then(that last one is casual gaming for me btw).

I will say though that I dont judge PvZ as a hardcore game but I would say that Cod is a hardcore game! When I judge games Casual or Hardcore its by content so the more... well demanding (I suppose is the word im looking for) the game is the more hardcore it is!
PvZ is a very casual game since its not demanding to much of your attention!

 

[krazykidd]

Just out of curiosity, why are you friends (even if it is just steam friends) with such twonks? Can't you just laugh at their idiocy, delete them and move on?

Actually , if you look up the casual games category , peggle and plants vs zombies are there . THEY ARE CASUAL GAMES , they have their own category! That and peggle and plants vs zombies are time waster games . Now you could argue that all games are to have fun and pass the time . But there is a difference between these games hence why they have their own category.

 

[Candidus]

Casual games, in my view and as somebody who uses the terms 'casual' and 'core' to divide the gaming population, are games that require no significant investment of brainpower and little to no practice to progress through. They are games designed to be accessible before *anything* else.

Now look at Kingdom Under Fire. A punishingly difficult game that requires significant strategising, practice and persistence to complete. Games that challenge you, sharpen you and on occasion- if your aptitude just isn't up to the task- show you your limits and send you packing.

*Because* of casuals and games increasingly being aimed at them, these people who either lack the willpower, aptitude or brainpower to have an enjoyable experience in a game like KUF, and *because* casuals are in the majority, we're seeing fewer and fewer core games of any real worth.

By the by, "of any real worth" does not apply to garbage like Call of Duty. I don't consider CoD to be any better than Plants Versus Zombies...
EDIT: Actually, I take it back. Call of Duty is offensive for its laughable core gaming pretensions, whereas PvZ knows what it is and makes no bones about it; it's a casual game for keeping casuals out of my multiplayer queues- splendid in short.

But look, for the love of whatever, don't pretend that we're all the same, because we're not. We don't even want the same things from this hobby!

I want a really high barrier to entry; I want a game to tell me to get better or GTFO. I derive pleasure from being good at something that is *terrifyingly hard to be good at in the first place*; from putting in tens of hours of effort and thought, and seeing that at the apex of my ability, I'm in the top 10% or 5% of those who pulled through at all- who themselves are 5% or 10% of everyone who tried.

My point is that the distinction between casuals and core players is a correct one, but the people you're describing have no business making it between you and them.

 

[Bobic]

Just out of curiosity, why are you friends (even if it is just steam friends) with such twonks? Can't you just laugh at their idiocy, delete them and move on?

Actually , if you look up the casual games category , peggle and plants vs zombies are there . THEY ARE CASUAL GAMES , they have their own category! That and peggle and plants vs zombies are time waster games . Now you could argue that all games are to have fun and pass the time . But there is a difference between these games hence why they have their own category.

Not entirely sure why I was quoted with that, but I'll play ball.

Although I don't really agree with the classification of casual/hardcore, I have no real problems with people using it. What I do have a problem with is people observing what games he's playing and interrupting to say 'play a real game'. That is why I call them twonks. COD has just as much right to be 'real' as plants vs zombies.

 

[teh_Canape]

I think it's complete bullshit, and that Casual and Hardcore have nothing to do with the type of game you play, but the way you play them
like, you could play Call of Duty: the New One from time to time as much as you can play Peggle as if you were getting paid for doing it

 

[Legion IV]

roughly only like 5% of the gaming community is hardcore.

Hardcore gaming is when you have those people who play a JRPG that has a Bad,Good and Extremely cryptic to get true ending, they of course get the game on release or import and literally have to read all the cryptic hints and have to play through the game 4-5 times before they even get it.

Thats hardcore thats a gamer i respect, i hate the people who read about the game, find out theres a true ending then fucking Faq it, its disgraceful and just a slap in the face of the developer.

Trust me theres other examples of hardcore gamers but thats just one, i'll give more if needed but the one i gave is just always pisses me off.

Shout outs to all the people who import JRPGS because you cant wait and have been doing this for over like 6 years and its gotten to the point where you've actually learned some Japanese. I have a bit easyier since my friend grew up in Japan and its his first language so he translates. But all together shout outs.

Death to Game walkthroughs!.

 

[Bambi On Toast]

I think some people are blowing this issue out of proportion. It doesn't really matter if you're a casual or hardcore gamer, and I wouldn't consider either of those terms a negative word.

To me, casual games are just simple games that people can instantly pick up and play. Like it or not, Plants And Zombies is a casual game. I don't think you could possibly use the word "hardcore" to describe that game. And what's the problem if you do play casual games? Don't take it as an insult. Don't really see what the problem is.

I hate casual games. They usually have poor graphics and simple gameplay. I need a game with a good story and at least some immersion. That doesn't mean I'm a mindless retard CoD player either. Don't let the "hardcore gamers" bring you down. If you want to play inferior games, then do it. Yes, they are inferior.... but that's not snobbery or elitism.. it's just fact.

 

[Fishyash]

There are 'casual' and 'hardcore' gamers, but not casual or hardcore games.

There are casual CoD players (just going on now and then), and hardcore mario kart players (playing non-stop going for world records). People who design games thinking 'it's casual, casual is cool and sells alot' they will screw it up, everyone knows you need more than that to make a good game.

You can be a hardcore plants vs zombies player, or bejeweled or peggle or whatever, that's what leaderboards are for. There is a casual and hardcore way to play most if not all good games, it's a downside for the game if you can't play it both ways.

Also, I love how they think call of duty is a 'hardcore game'. Sure, Slap an 18 on a game and now it's hardcore....

Just kidding, complete morons can play call of duty, it's designed to cater to casual FPS players as well as hardcore ones. They designed it to have a good learning curve and giving a big shiny for people to follow so they keep playing.

But my point is, you can play the more complex games, like Starcraft casually, and you can also play a casual game, like Bejeweled, seriously.

 

[ResonanceGames]

A lot of people on the internet (mostly kids) take gaming, gamers, and themselves way too seriously. I would just ignore that "casual" vs "hardcore" stuff the same way you should ignore PC vs Console or 360 vs PS3 nonsense. It's childish, ridiculous, and not worth responding to.

 

[Candidus]

There are 'casual' and 'hardcore' gamers, but not casual or hardcore games.

Morene's campaign, KUF. Try playing that "casually" and getting anywhere.
Or try Masters of Orion 2.
X:3 Terran Conflict.

These are games you're unlikely to even scratch the surface of with a casual attitude.

I'll give you Supreme Commander 1 + FA as a borderline case, but there clearly are 'casual' and 'core' games separate from each other.

 

[Ordinaryundone]

It's because of threads like this that I don't label myself a gamer at all. I just don't care to be bothered having to defend casual or hardcore. It's a waste of time.

Don't worry about it. It's not the label that means anything, your 'friends' are the ones who have the problem, and others who take these labels seriously.

This. Regardless of the game or the gamer, the only problem with labels are the people who take them seriously. Like anything in the world, people will want to be better than others and will go to lengths to make sure others think they are as well.

 

[Zeriu]

PvZ? small indie game? Pop Cap Games is a "casual" game juggernaut. I love PvZ because it has nice gameplay, a nice visual style, a nice soundtrack and is all around a nice game. But that doesn't mean i don't like MW2.

 

[Fishyash]

There are 'casual' and 'hardcore' gamers, but not casual or hardcore games.

Morene's campaign, KUF. Try playing that "casually" and getting anywhere.
Or try Masters of Orion 2.
X:3 Terran Conflict.

These are games you're unlikely to even scratch the surface of with a casual attitude.

I'll give you Supreme Commander 1 + FA as a borderline case, but there clearly are 'casual' and 'core' games separate from each other.

Firstly, some people don't care about 'getting anywhere'. You don't scratch the surface of street fighter by learning how to hadouken either. Scratching the surface and/or finding intricacies within game design is something a hardcore gamer will happily talk about/do, but people who play more casually won't tend to bat an eyelid.

Secondly, I have a feeling you're talking about campaign. Yes, single player strategy game campaigns are more difficult because strategy games tend to have a harder learning curve, but you could easily just ignore all of that, and play multiplayer (not to mention, casual doesn't mean bad, let's say I just spent 20 minutes at a time playing, unless there is no save function I could get through the campaign even after a while, an extreme and possibly stupid example, but it can be done).

As for space sims... I don't know the specifics, but the most hardcore space sims tend to boast a vast space for people to explore. That is probably going to be main focus for such a player.

I let a friend download kerbal space program, and I doubt he is the slightest bit concerned about the game's physics engine, controlling the spaceship properly, or even the possibility of going out to space, he wants to mess about with the spaceship design and then see how well it fairs at launch.

You can play pretty much any game that doesn't force you to play in only one possible way. Success isn't really that important. Sure you only have to play a certain way to succeed, but there is no right or wrong way to play, unless it's illegal or something.

editing out stuff on second thought wasn't really necessary in my post

 

[omega 616]

fucken

Wrong vowel ...

Casual games are like kiddies books, they are colorful, fun, get old quick, simple etc nothing wrong with that but they are not plumbing the depths of human emotion or being any degree of sophisticated.

Hardcore is well hard, like asshole Mario, IWBTG, supermeat boy etc. They take a long time to master, pretty unforgiving and give a greater sense of accomplishment when they are finished.

COD is very casual, next time one of them mocks a casual game tell them they are ignorant and immature, then follow it up with telling to play a hardcore FPS like quake ... they might even win $10,000 and a car!

 

[Candidus]

snip

Sorry, but you're dead wrong. I'm not saying you won't be able to succeed in the above cases with a casual mindset, I'm saying it's very likely that you won't be able to play at all. If you pick up Ninja Gaiden or Kingdom Under Fire with the sort of dexterity and mental agility that Angry Birds has bestowed you with, it's going to be a case of you bashing your head against the barrier to entry for 25 minutes before putting the game down for good.

X3 is almost impenetrable with a casual mindset- and it has nothing to do with the scale of the task of exploration. There is no fun to be had without first garnering an understanding of the *many* menus, assessing your strengths and best path to a better ship, and also examining the trade in your region of space and looking for a niche. No tutorial. The manual is fine for control advice and worthless as a source of market information or for otherwise shortening the road to gratification. Study and hard work open the door to fun in a little while, but that investment is mandatory.

No, I'm sticking to my guns. There are games you can play with a casual approach, and games that are almost specifically designed to prevent you from having fun with that approach-- no bad thing I say.