yes... what I said... RED and BLUE team... I was pointing out the spelling mistake on the new class description...AxelMiller said:
The TF2 Guard Dog
- Thread starter JesterOfPuppets
- Start date
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How about you Check the Time stamps.JesterOfPuppets said:
the Thread was a fan based addition thrown in Sept. 20th. This was tossed around so much on the forums and spammed as 'awsome' that vALVE caught a look at it, and in turn Replied The same exact way they Replied to the person that filled out the Mail Order Coupons the next day.
Oh god, not again. Valve does NOT have a twitter account. Quoted from the TF2 forums:Insomniactk said:
To sum it up, twitter IS fake. Dog is PROBABLY fake.
Valve often likes to joke around and as I've said before... the update thingy is a fan made site. The letter that is on the Valve site is something they made, maybe in a response to the well made site. Or maybe it is something that will be added, but probably not as a new class.
Guard dog can be pretty much anything, seeing as it is an "invention" it's probably NOT A REAL DOG. But some kind of device. If it is real...
Details please? From what I've seen the game is the closest to being balanced since release.BonsaiK said:
A spy will dominate in a team full of "rush to the front" killers, but against a serious team, spies should only be there to sap the guns so they can be 'naded.
it is fake.
look at the domain names.
Fake Dog Update:
http://guarddog.50webs.com/
Scout Update:
http://www.teamfortress.com/scoutupdate/
Sniper vs. Spy Update
http://www.teamfortress.com/sniper_vs_spy/
notice a slight diffrence?
its valve, they own the freaking forum, why would they need a third party domain provider?
look at the domain names.
Fake Dog Update:
http://guarddog.50webs.com/
Scout Update:
http://www.teamfortress.com/scoutupdate/
Sniper vs. Spy Update
http://www.teamfortress.com/sniper_vs_spy/
notice a slight diffrence?
its valve, they own the freaking forum, why would they need a third party domain provider?
I f you read the letter, it actually says it was a submission to 'MANN co.' (read as Valve) by an 'inventor' (read TF2 fan) so even that admits it was a piece of fan art that Valve liked so much they thought they might as well show to everyone and get us talking about the game again whilst all the TF2 team are off putting the finishing touches to L4D2
JesterOfPuppets said:
Joining the Team Fortress group here [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/groups/view/The-Escapist-Team-Fortress-2-Group-PC] might have let you known earlier. (Shameless plug)
It's called playing along. Frankly AI characters would mean remaking all the maps to include nodes as well as coding NPCs and a imperial fuckounce of other stuff. Plus the model looks ... amateur made. I don't see how anyone could confuse this with anything other than an amusing joke.JesterOfPuppets said:
First off, it isn't a valve page so that alone should tell you something. As everyone and their dog has pointed out.
Second, it is over powered. That is one of the beauties of TF2... every class is equally useless!
Not that I wouldn't mind seeing some more classes added, there is a good potential there to expand on the game, but the obvious question still remain. How do you make a class that brings some use to a team in set situations but at the same time is mostly useless outside of those situations? Particularly a class that hasn't already got that niche filled by a pre existing class.
It is a good mental game though: what class would you make and how would you ensure it is equally useless?
Second, it is over powered. That is one of the beauties of TF2... every class is equally useless!
Not that I wouldn't mind seeing some more classes added, there is a good potential there to expand on the game, but the obvious question still remain. How do you make a class that brings some use to a team in set situations but at the same time is mostly useless outside of those situations? Particularly a class that hasn't already got that niche filled by a pre existing class.
It is a good mental game though: what class would you make and how would you ensure it is equally useless?
Original post is fake, I think Valve might just be playing along with the joke, at least I hope they are.
Hmm. Weird. My first thought was that this was a sign of the upcoming engineer update, but now I don't know.
Lets see, lets see....
First off it is a dog and very likely to have a high base speed. If you can chase down scouts, even if you use rocket boosts, you have a speed greater then theirs. This makes the scouts speed bonus, the core of that class, obsolete. Given that you have the same health as a scout, speed of a scout and higher fire power of a scout you now become more powerful then that whole class.
The primary weapon is on par or just a little lower then the heavies weapon being a massive fire rate which is a benefit only the heavy should hold. I can only judge by pictures here but it seems likely that it doesn't have the slow down effect and when coupled with a faster base speed could easily make this weapon more useful then the heavies main, which is the heavies core advantage.
These two alone have made two classes in the game weaker. Rolling these elements into a single class ensures that the two in question will be loose their uniqueness which allows them to better fill the niche they are meant to be filling. Oh and it won't matter you don't have as much health as the heavy at that point. Speed can be better, used right, then health ever could be if you can hit their flanks fast and hard. I am giving away part of my trade secrets as a combat engineer in that bit of wisdom.
Your secondary weapon could actually play a interesting part into the game but it further weakens the medic which has already taken a small blow by the heavy dropping sandwich. Unlike the heavies sandwich, which is the equivalent of a pill bottle, the dog will be able to drop a super sized medkit. To use the same step up I mentioned below, yeah I am strange and write posts in all sorts of order, added with the faster speed and fire power this carrying 'weapon' makes you more combat efficient then the medic which eliminates the largest down side of working with a medic: He is incapable of defending himself or assisting you while he is healing you.
This doesn't even touch on the metal aspect which looks interesting at first glance but would make engineers like me a little too strong if used well. You could argue that two engineers can be good together, and yes they can, but they don't eliminate each others weaknesses to a great extent. They are still only moderate in defensive fire-power, speed and health. This K9 unit, though I am assuming you can drop the metal your carrying and pull out a gun, means the engineer has faster, heavier hitting, help yet still doesn't loose the build a gun to level two capacity.
Rocket boosted melee also over powers the characters melee but if properly balanced it would actually be a benefit they should have. I can understand why they would want to do it this way. Dogs are a melee based creature, seeing they haven't opposable thumbs, so you would want a benefit to the melee to try and make this their primary method of attack. I think it having a strong melee and a way to get in fast and furious should be the niche it is striving for so I won't fault this heavily.
The skill? I have to give them some credit for not just suggesting you have the ability to detect spies, completely obsolescing a whole class. Still if used correctly, and very likely it will be the primary use of this ability, it will seriously damage the spies class. After all you don't really need to know where the other classes are, snipers are going to be where range benfits them the most. Engineers will be in more defensive choke points. Heavies will stick with medics and likely try to become the front line... and so forth. Spies... spies try to get behind you, they are the ones to watch.
Overall this class weakens the standing of: Scout, Heavy, Pyro, Medic and Spy. Yet the biggest 'balance' factor of this game has been making classes useless outside of their niche as I have said. This is over all a fast moving, moderate to high damaging, high fire-rate, moderately healthy class capable of a few unique tricks. Those 'stats' alone make it better then all the other classes without throwing in the two special abilities it has (tracking and ammo/heath carrying) to further tip the balance. Other words: it is capable of operating far more effectively out of the desired role then any other class.
There are a few good ideas in this class but it needs work to make it plausible for the game setting... If I had to make a suggestion on this class:
Replace the primary weapon with a form of bark attack. I was thinking stun but that would make you too powerful indeed, but maybe a slowing effect could give a good balance. This classes niche should be a heavy and fast melee attack. Removing all real range ability would force it into this position better then what it is now.
Lower the health a little, a frontal attack with this class should be suicide. Force them to use the benefit of a higher base speed coupled with 'rocket powered' lunge attacks to strike from the back and flanks. It is after all the tactic used most by canines you know, worry a enemy from the flanks and rear and then retreat while your pack mates with guns hit them as they turn to deal with you.
The skill needs tweaking too, but the suggestions I keep thinking on are all... well too much of a under-power. Then I am over balancing into the over-powered spectrum with anything I come up to make it even more useful. I do know one thing, water should be able to 'shake off' the pursuit of the canine somehow.
First off it is a dog and very likely to have a high base speed. If you can chase down scouts, even if you use rocket boosts, you have a speed greater then theirs. This makes the scouts speed bonus, the core of that class, obsolete. Given that you have the same health as a scout, speed of a scout and higher fire power of a scout you now become more powerful then that whole class.
The primary weapon is on par or just a little lower then the heavies weapon being a massive fire rate which is a benefit only the heavy should hold. I can only judge by pictures here but it seems likely that it doesn't have the slow down effect and when coupled with a faster base speed could easily make this weapon more useful then the heavies main, which is the heavies core advantage.
These two alone have made two classes in the game weaker. Rolling these elements into a single class ensures that the two in question will be loose their uniqueness which allows them to better fill the niche they are meant to be filling. Oh and it won't matter you don't have as much health as the heavy at that point. Speed can be better, used right, then health ever could be if you can hit their flanks fast and hard. I am giving away part of my trade secrets as a combat engineer in that bit of wisdom.
Your secondary weapon could actually play a interesting part into the game but it further weakens the medic which has already taken a small blow by the heavy dropping sandwich. Unlike the heavies sandwich, which is the equivalent of a pill bottle, the dog will be able to drop a super sized medkit. To use the same step up I mentioned below, yeah I am strange and write posts in all sorts of order, added with the faster speed and fire power this carrying 'weapon' makes you more combat efficient then the medic which eliminates the largest down side of working with a medic: He is incapable of defending himself or assisting you while he is healing you.
This doesn't even touch on the metal aspect which looks interesting at first glance but would make engineers like me a little too strong if used well. You could argue that two engineers can be good together, and yes they can, but they don't eliminate each others weaknesses to a great extent. They are still only moderate in defensive fire-power, speed and health. This K9 unit, though I am assuming you can drop the metal your carrying and pull out a gun, means the engineer has faster, heavier hitting, help yet still doesn't loose the build a gun to level two capacity.
Rocket boosted melee also over powers the characters melee but if properly balanced it would actually be a benefit they should have. I can understand why they would want to do it this way. Dogs are a melee based creature, seeing they haven't opposable thumbs, so you would want a benefit to the melee to try and make this their primary method of attack. I think it having a strong melee and a way to get in fast and furious should be the niche it is striving for so I won't fault this heavily.
The skill? I have to give them some credit for not just suggesting you have the ability to detect spies, completely obsolescing a whole class. Still if used correctly, and very likely it will be the primary use of this ability, it will seriously damage the spies class. After all you don't really need to know where the other classes are, snipers are going to be where range benfits them the most. Engineers will be in more defensive choke points. Heavies will stick with medics and likely try to become the front line... and so forth. Spies... spies try to get behind you, they are the ones to watch.
Overall this class weakens the standing of: Scout, Heavy, Pyro, Medic and Spy. Yet the biggest 'balance' factor of this game has been making classes useless outside of their niche as I have said. This is over all a fast moving, moderate to high damaging, high fire-rate, moderately healthy class capable of a few unique tricks. Those 'stats' alone make it better then all the other classes without throwing in the two special abilities it has (tracking and ammo/heath carrying) to further tip the balance. Other words: it is capable of operating far more effectively out of the desired role then any other class.
There are a few good ideas in this class but it needs work to make it plausible for the game setting... If I had to make a suggestion on this class:
Replace the primary weapon with a form of bark attack. I was thinking stun but that would make you too powerful indeed, but maybe a slowing effect could give a good balance. This classes niche should be a heavy and fast melee attack. Removing all real range ability would force it into this position better then what it is now.
Lower the health a little, a frontal attack with this class should be suicide. Force them to use the benefit of a higher base speed coupled with 'rocket powered' lunge attacks to strike from the back and flanks. It is after all the tactic used most by canines you know, worry a enemy from the flanks and rear and then retreat while your pack mates with guns hit them as they turn to deal with you.
The skill needs tweaking too, but the suggestions I keep thinking on are all... well too much of a under-power. Then I am over balancing into the over-powered spectrum with anything I come up to make it even more useful. I do know one thing, water should be able to 'shake off' the pursuit of the canine somehow.
Unique map classes:
I can't help but shake the feeling that Valve needs to add maps with unique class tags. That is these classes can only be played in certain maps, maybe even limited by map settings so you can have classes that are either vital to the map objectives or capable of being greatly over powered in some sole aspect but balanced as there is only ever one of them on the map at any time.
This could just be because I want VIP maps to come back and the one remake of a VIP map I played failed so badly in the execution. Likely as they didn't have the VIP class and had to go with a standard class carrying intel... which was very susceptible to snipers. The VIP class, for those who are not old like I, was a unique class that one person was randomly selected to play at the start of the round. It had a ton of health but having only a pistol for defence ensured it required team members to keep alive. If killed would result in failure, if 'escaped' would result in success.
Ponders some sort of shield bearer class, 'gunner crew' class and other such things....
I can't help but shake the feeling that Valve needs to add maps with unique class tags. That is these classes can only be played in certain maps, maybe even limited by map settings so you can have classes that are either vital to the map objectives or capable of being greatly over powered in some sole aspect but balanced as there is only ever one of them on the map at any time.
This could just be because I want VIP maps to come back and the one remake of a VIP map I played failed so badly in the execution. Likely as they didn't have the VIP class and had to go with a standard class carrying intel... which was very susceptible to snipers. The VIP class, for those who are not old like I, was a unique class that one person was randomly selected to play at the start of the round. It had a ton of health but having only a pistol for defence ensured it required team members to keep alive. If killed would result in failure, if 'escaped' would result in success.
Ponders some sort of shield bearer class, 'gunner crew' class and other such things....
