The Third Batman Film in the Nolanverse *SPOILERS*

[cainbrain]

Three points

One: Isn't Ra's immortal? Couldn't some of his goons just dump his body in the lazarus pits?

Two: I don't think they killed off Harvey, he's too much of main villian to go down that easy. I mean Batman threw Maroni off a building from about the same height and he was walking (albeit with a cane) afterwards. Also batman was shot with a magnum, fell through some wooden posts, hit the ground from the same height as Dent and then he was able to sprint away from his pursuers. I'm also pretty sure that if Dent was alive he could have easily escaped as everyone chased after batman instead of being hauled off to the Asylum.

Three: Bane would be a good choice if he wasn't so easy to beat, all Batman ever needs to do is cut him off from his venom and the fight is over. Personally I'd like to see someone take another crack at Mr. Freeze, maybe we could even see Deathstroke or Deadshot in action.

 

[CanadianWolverine]

Why does it even have to be a villain?

What was that story arc called again ... No Man's Land, If I Recall Correctly (IIRC).

That was pretty friggin dark and you don't even necessarily need a villain.

Of course, baring that (or included in that), I think the boy born in a prison, Bane, and a certain cat-burglar would work out well.

Though don't get me wrong, I really think the best possible villian is Gotham itself and to the best of my knowledge the No Man's Land story arc brought that out quite a bit.

 

[SpySmasher]

What they should have done from the very very beginning was have Batman Begins simply follow the storyline of Frank Miller's Batman: Year One. For those of you who have not read it, it it amazingly good. And get this: there are NO villains in it. It's all about Batman finding his niche as a crimefighter and thwarting the corrupt police force. Jim Gordon is in it, and it's a fantastic read. Of course, they stole bits and pieces from this comic, such as Batman calling the bats to help him escape from the police. If they did that movie for number one, number two could have easily been what is now Batman Begins, and so forth.

I have seen The Dark Knight every weekend since it has been out, and I have to say: This new Joker is not really that good. Yes, he is absolutely fucking scary, irrational, and of course insane. But where are his props? Where's the laughing gas, the acid posy on his lapel? I think having those things would have only made him more frightening. Going back to Heath Ledger's performance: Was I the only person who did not enjoy him always licking his lips and sticking his tongue out as he talked? I'm sure it gives off a more primal essence, and that his scars are a reason as to why he's licking all the time. But every time I would watch him on screen, I would get excited at his acting and then he'd stick his tongue out and BOOM I would be upset.

And Two-Face kinda looked like crap. It should have been acid (like in the comics), not fire. Acid would have made his face....melty. Would have been much more effective. I also do not think he is dead, regardless of him falling FROM THE EXACT SAME HEIGHT as Batman did, and Gordon doing a little memorial speech at the end. Two-Face is too great of a character to kill off far too early. Personally, he is my favorite out of Batman's Rogue Gallery.

An ideal sequel: I would agree that Black Mask would be a great idea. Maybe BM and Two-Face, gunning it out over turf, Batman coming in to clean them out and at the same time, clear his name. Another idea would be to have Two-Face survive (somehow), and he would get plastic surgery (this idea is from the Batman comics) and fight off the Two-Face persona, kind of like a double personality. Then some events would happen, and Harvey would revert back to Two-Face.

I so no to Catwoman; not a fan of her. And no to Robin. Christian Bale even said that we would quit Batman if they ever introduce Robin.

Loved the movie, it was dark as hell, a perfect tone for Batman.

 

[cainbrain]

SpySmasher I think that 'The Dark Knight' Joker is far better than any other version specifically because it left out all of that gimmicky crap. This Joker was more real to me than the comic book versions because it stuck to the raw insanity that drives the Joker, giving his character some dignity for once. The tongue thing and all of his other little mannerisms play directly into that his madness by making him look and sound like a deranged monster (ala 'A Clockwork Orange'). Without them he would just be some atypically violent guy with makeup.

Also I thought it was perfect the way they scarred Dent. Who the hell would try to kill some one with a vile of acid? The burnt look is much more conceivable than having half of his face a big puddle of goo.

 

[TomNook]

Just to fuck with people, Deacon Blackfire being manipulated by Kobra.

 

[jongon362]

couple of rumors- riddler by johnny depp
- catwoman by angelina jolie
- penguin, the fakest b/c nolan hates him, by phillip seymour hoffman

Bane would be good though so Batman gets crippled preventing the flaming shit-covered clusterfuck known as "the fourth installment."

 

[Leodiensian]

Hmm.. Nolanverse tends to be too grounded in reality for Freeze, Ivy, Clayface and a few others.

If we were going for a major/minor villain mechanic, then Black Mask would make a good primary antagonist with Robin/Red Hood as a minor villain. Have Robin introduced as someone who has a similar origin to Batman and starts to work with him (maybe make him more Nightwing than Robin, to distance him from the green pants) but is much darker and starts to cross lines Batman won't cross, and they come into conflict, perhaps with Red Hood siding with Black Mask. But that may be a little similar to what they did with Dent/TwoFace in Dark Knight.

Riddler might be good as someone who challenges Batman intellectually rather than violently. Rather than shooting at Batsy, he poses puzzles, dilemnas and traps. A shadowy manipulator.

 

[dukethepcdr]

I so hope that Robin is not in the new Batman movies. I'm a big fan of Batman himself but really don't like Robin. When they added Robin to the comics, it made them too kiddish.

As far as the next villian goes, I'd like to see a villian that has never been in a Batman movie or cartoon like Mad Monk, Deadman, Dr. Death etc. Deadman would be interesting since he could be made to seem really scary and creepy and like he's the main villian but then the plot twist would come later on in the film to reveal that he's a hero too.

They could fast forward some years and have Gordon's daughter grow up and become Batgirl. It might work if they find the right girl to play her and if they can keep the battle of the sexes nonsense to a minimum.

 

[N-Sef]

I was listening to a comicbook podcast, and it hit me. The villians they were discussing are a lot better suited for the Nolan universe. They want the villians to be Talia Al Ghul, daughter of Ra's and a psycho ***** you actually believes that Ra's is immortal as Liam Neeson suggested in the previous film. Which I think he ment metaphorically, as in a person always takes the role of him (a la The Phantom), while Talia might actually believe it's true. The second villian could be Bane, not use 'venom' to jack him up, but just a psycho steroid user who breaks Batman physically, whereas Joker broke him mentally. Penguin could be a mob boss that takes over the Falcone family, much like Sammy did in Dark Knight.

This I thought was a great idea, and could really set up some great scenes in the third film where Batman cannot continue on and needs to be picked up off of his feet.

What I don't want (and I think I read, Nolan doesn't either) is supernatural villians that cannot be brought to the screen (Freeze, Clayface etc) and Robin. The boy wonder would ruin the sort of atmosphere that Nolan's version has.

 

[Railu]

Joining in late on this thread. But if anyone has been paying attention to Nolan and his films, his use of any of the traditional batman characters is loose to say the least. It's not that he doesn't portray them well, in fact he does a magnificent job. In fact, correct me if I'm wrong (and I know you DC comic buffs will), but in Batman Begins, both the villian and the League of Shadows were both introduced in that film. He had the Scarecrow, but as a minor role.

In fact, in the new movie, I don't recall him ever referring to Harvey Dent as Two-Face. It was always Harvey Dent. He really goes as far away as he can from being like a comic book and putting the theme as close to reality as possible while still maintaining what made Batman super vigilante. If we learn anything from his first two films, the third will be no different. Expect a villian that is grounded in reality and as uncampy (word?) as possible. If he does use an existing character he will look at it:

A) Does this make sense in the world we've now established?
and
B) Can this exist in reality and not just in comic book form?

Very few of the remaining villians in the Batman universe fill both of those criteria.

 

[Xhumed]

Joining in late on this thread. But if anyone has been paying attention to Nolan and his films, his use of any of the traditional batman characters is loose to say the least. It's not that he doesn't portray them well, in fact he does a magnificent job. In fact, correct me if I'm wrong (and I know you DC comic buffs will), but in Batman Begins, both the villian and the League of Shadows were both introduced in that film. He had the Scarecrow, but as a minor role.

In fact, in the new movie, I don't recall him ever referring to Harvey Dent as Two-Face. It was always Harvey Dent. He really goes as far away as he can from being like a comic book and putting the theme as close to reality as possible while still maintaining what made Batman super vigilante. If we learn anything from his first two films, the third will be no different. Expect a villian that is grounded in reality and as uncampy (word?) as possible. If he does use an existing character he will look at it:

A) Does this make sense in the world we've now established?
and
B) Can this exist in reality and not just in comic book form?

Very few of the remaining villians in the Batman universe fill both of those criteria.

I agree completely. Catwoman would definately work (as in dire need of a reboot, thanks to halle berry's dreadful lump of feline excrement.) Riddler maybe, but that'd be retreading old ground a bit too much. It's extremely difficult to be honest to think of decent villians to use.

 

[Jamash]

Hasn't the internet made the Riddler rather defunct/obsolete?

He may have been a slight nuisance in the 60's but now couldn't Batman just log onto the internet with the Bat-computer & solve the riddle almost immediately?

 

[mark_n_b]

After establishing Ledger as the Joker and the way in which they did it, the Joker need not be revisited for many a turn. And all the Batman movies have focussed on one villain so far and I hope that this trend is continued. There is more than enough content on any of the villains that have been mentioned on this thread for a whole movie. I mean, Two Face only got a bit of a token passing in this film and it was twice the length of other movies of it's genre (but three hours is quickly becoming a film norm anymore)

I am going a little bit crazy on this thread to hear all the commentary about batman's rogue gallery and how horrible they are or to hear how they are secondary villains (catwoman? secondary? Do you know the Batman Mythos at all?)

Penguin is a good choice for sequels. OK he is from the silly era of comic book camp, but he has evolved into a character that establishes the dichotomy that exists between being classy and looking classy (I especially like the nineties WB animated series version and think that would be the best model for this universe)

The Riddler's gimmick would be tough to implement in this universe but I think it would be very tactfully done if the first two films are any evidence.

Catwoman has always been an excellent foil to Batman because while she is not inherently evil, she is decidedly not law abiding or concerned with the well being of her fellow Gothamites. So as you all know: she (with the Riddler, Joker, and Penguin) is one of the gods (devils) of batman lore.

Poison Ivy as an eco terrorist is very doable.

Killer Crock and Bane as birth defect / steroid user is also pontential (though this is reaching territory here)

Clay Face, and Mr. Freeze will need some major retooling to fit into this world, but given the overall importance of Mr. Freexe to Batman, If this film series continues I think he may be an inevitability.

 

[Kikyoo]

I would very much like to see Batman take on Grundy, who started as a Batman bad guy. I can't really think of a way to have a good movie with him running around, but that is what I would like to see.

Honestly I think Catwoman will be a big part of the next movie. Two-face and Scarecrow will likely pop up to cause mischief. Maybe it will be one of those big "all the villains team up to kill batman" movies, that always end up sucking in the end.

 

[puffbro1]

I was under the impression that Nolan has sworn that he will never make a Batman movie with the Penguin in it? Maybe my friends are lying dirtbags.......

I also read that somewhere, something about the penguin not being particularly realistic and more of a gimick villain

He did say that, but i've also heard that the penguin will be coming back, so who knows?

Of course, from my point of view it's all a moot point since no superhero franchise has ever been good after it was bled for a third movie (Batman Forever, Spider-Man 3, X-men: The Last Stand, Superman III) and a fourth leads to levels of shittiness that reek like flayed ghouls (Superman: The Quest for Peace and Batman & Robin). Nolan has earned more faith than most for saving the Batman franchise, but there's nothing that makes me think he can follow this successfully.[/quote]

True, there is a limit to how far the series can go, but i guess we just have to trust that Nolan will know when to quit

 

[Reaperman Wompa]

Oh god i just pictured Batman vs. Osama

 

[Eilanis]

I thought Deathstroke, though typically a Teen Titans enemy, would make a good villain. He's strong, intelligent, and would be really hard for Batman to catch. Riddler would be good, but I don't think Johnny Depp is a good choice. Bane could also be an excellent choice, but the actor would (like always) be a key factor.

No Man's Land, whoever mentioned it, features many of Batman's allies and enemies, including Dick Grayson as Nightwing among others that would likely need an introduction and time shift of one sort of the other.

 

[ChiliC]

remember the guy that the joker said needed to be killed or a hospital would be blown up? theres ur riddler

 

[Cerebrium]

Anyone else think Gearhead would be cool?

Also, to whoever suggested Hugo Weaving as The Riddler, +1 internets to you.

 

[Johnn Johnston]

remember the guy that the joker said needed to be killed or a hospital would be blown up? theres ur riddler

Actually, it was the Joker saying that the man who was going to reveal Batman's identity should be killed, or else he would blow up a hospital. That's why people were trying to kill the guy that was about to reveal, and why it was the Joker that blew up the hospital.

I think the Riddler could be done well. Maybe he feels everyone deserves a second chance, so even though he has perhaps set a trap to kill someone, he is giving remote clues as to how to get there. That way, the blood would be on their hands.