The Tools of the Trade

[BX3]

Also: it appears I fucked up the publish date for this strip, so enjoy it a day early, I guess.

I love you, Grey, but you can't be doing this, c'mon.

-----------------------------

Keyboard and mouse is perfect for mah Left 4 Dead and some of my puzzle games, no doubt. Then I pop in literally anything else and my general response is something along the lines of "fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuccck....."

 

[Bad Jim]

Sooo, stupid question but, why aren't mouse and keyboards compatible with consoles anyway? They use USB the same as the controllers, so I've never really understood why the devs/manufacturers didn't made them compatible.

That's . . . a good question. I was going to point out that implementing a keyboard/mouse interface requires a bit of work, but since most games also have PC versions they need to implement those interfaces anyway, and most of the code is platform independent, it shouldn't be that hard.

The SNES, Megadrive and PS1 had mice, but didn't have many games that supported them, so people didn't buy them, so developers didn't support them. I think developers just assumed that console gamers didn't want mice and haven't bothered since.

 

[Vigormortis]

Yes, I did mean "loose"... (I know what I said...)

I had kinda assumed that was the case, since it made the hashtag sound pretty witty, but lately I've seen people all-too-often confuse the spelling, so I had to be sure.

I meant no offense.

Also, I forgot about the different response time between wired and wireless controllers... mostly because it hasn't hindered me that much[footnote]Or at all, actually...[/footnote] during gameplay...

Truth be told, in most cases the difference is almost imperceptible. But for me, on games that rely very heavily on fast response times, I can pick up on even the smallest variations in control response times. The games just feel noticeably 'off' to me - whether it's dips in frame-rate or slightly slower response times from a wireless input device. This is especially true with a mouse.

But yes, in the vast majority of cases the difference is so minimal it's nothing to concern ones self over.

 

[FPLOON]

Yes, I did mean "loose"... (I know what I said...)

I had kinda assumed that was the case, since it made the hashtag sound pretty witty, but lately I've seen people all-too-often confuse the spelling, so I had to be sure.

I meant no offense.

Oh... None taken... I'm just glad someone acknowledged the wittiness of the hashtag... ;p

Also, I forgot about the different response time between wired and wireless controllers... mostly because it hasn't hindered me that much[footnote]Or at all, actually...[/footnote] during gameplay...

Truth be told, in most cases the difference is almost imperceptible. But for me, on games that rely very heavily on fast response times, I can pick up on even the smallest variations in control response times. The games just feel noticeably 'off' to me - whether it's dips in frame-rate or slightly slower response times from a wireless input device. This is especially true with a mouse.

But yes, in the vast majority of cases the difference is so minimal it's nothing to concern ones self over.

I see... Although, I still feel like dips in frame-rate mostly comes from the games themselves and not the wireless controller in question, thus leading to the controller input feeling faster (or slower) than what's presented on screen... But, that's just me personally...

 

[Vigormortis]

I see... Although, I still feel like dips in frame-rate mostly comes from the games themselves and not the wireless controller in question, thus leading to the controller input feeling faster (or slower) than what's presented on screen... But, that's just me personally...

Oh, I wasn't conflating frame-rate drops with the inherent latency of wireless inputs. I was just giving another example of something that effects how a game 'feels' to me. It's similar to how input latency can sometimes feel.

 

[vallorn]

Yeah, I've been using my 360 controller for PC gaming a lot recently. Games like Dark Souls seem unplayable with mouse and keyboard.

Because Dark Souls is a notoriously shoddy port. When designed by people who know what they are doing any game works perfectly fine with K&M.

I dunno about you people or what you are doing but I'm playing Dark Souls just fine with the default KB+M and no DSfix... Then again my characters are currently, a dex pryomancy build which swaps between Uchigatana and Black Knight's Sword and a Medium weight cleric build with the Sunbro covenant...

Turns out the ability to spam fireballs and lightning makes the game hilariously easy at some points. Who knew?

 

[-Dragmire-]

Sooo, stupid question but, why aren't mouse and keyboards compatible with consoles anyway? They use USB the same as the controllers, so I've never really understood why the devs/manufacturers didn't made them compatible.

PS3 had keyboard and mouse functionality but not many games supported it. I played Unreal Tournament 3 with a keyboard and mouse(sometimes subbing the keyboard for a controller) and that worked out great.

Oddly enough, UT3 also supported mods on the PS3(a pain to install though). I really wish more console games had those features.

 

[vallorn]

Sooo, stupid question but, why aren't mouse and keyboards compatible with consoles anyway? They use USB the same as the controllers, so I've never really understood why the devs/manufacturers didn't made them compatible.

To sell their own controllers, I'd wager. Same idea as having exclusive games as a market. Afaik, pads and keyboards/mice are cheaper than the console-specific controllers. Also, wasn't KB+M compatible for other functions on one of the consoles? Not games specifically, I mean, but still.

The PS3 had a lot of Bluetooth functionality so it wouldn't awfully surprise me if you could use them on it. At least before Sony screwed the pooch and removed the ability for people like myself to install Linux on it. (And I don't care what you say, my linux enabled toaster cooks break just fine... So long as you have the up to date patches.)

 

[FPLOON]

I see... Although, I still feel like dips in frame-rate mostly comes from the games themselves and not the wireless controller in question, thus leading to the controller input feeling faster (or slower) than what's presented on screen... But, that's just me personally...

Oh, I wasn't conflating frame-rate drops with the inherent latency of wireless inputs. I was just giving another example of something that effects how a game 'feels' to me. It's similar to how input latency can sometimes feel.

Oh... Then, my bad for the misunderstanding... (Should have read your comment a bit more clearer...)

 

[Vigormortis]

Oh... Then, my bad for the misunderstanding... (Should have read your comment a bit more clearer...)

Egh, no worries. Having reread my post I see how one could misunderstand my statement.

And just to be fair, most of the time I used to use a wireless controller for my Xbox360. That is, until I noticed how quickly Microsoft's official battery packs wore out. Now I just use wired on the few occasions wherein I want to use my Xbox. (or want to play certain games on my PC)

 

[Furbyz]

I think the best type of game you need a controller for is racing games. Keyboard buttons are all or nothing, you're either flooring it or your foot is off the gas, the controller gives you that in between that you need for corners and that's why I love my xbox 360 controller.

This, massively, but also beat-em-ups. The fact you can have your keys nicely placed under your thumbs and fingers helps massively. I have DC's Injustice: God's Among Us and it used to give me hang cramp until I got a controller.

Also - Bastion played better with a controller, and I like playing JRPG's with a controller too. Mostly because playing on a laptop straming through the TV and sitting in an armchair is much more comfortable than having the laptop on my knee, or having an unwieldy keyboard on my lap when I am only selecting actions and using a grand total of the directonal buttons plus 'select' 'cancel' and 'menu'...

I really disagree with the idea that Keyboards are bad for fighting games. There are so many advantages that you simply can't ignore. One of them being the absolute nature of the inputs that make it bad for racing games. You've got a degree of input accuracy and speed that most controllers can't rival. You can also press in two directions at once, which might not sound like much but it makes a difference in the time it takes to go from walking forward to blocking.

There's even a peripheral that many people use called a Hitbox that functions in much the same capacity as a keyboard and is lauded for its input accuracy. It costs $150 compared to my keyboard's $10.

The only downside to keyboards is that it is possible to jail the keys if you press too many buttons on the same circuit at once because of their mechanical design. This effects some games more than others. I've never seen it happen with Injustice (not exactly an input heavy game) but I can imagine it occurring more with Streetfighter because some of the moves involve pressing 3 kicks/punches at once.

 

[Squilookle]

Back in my day I was wall jumping and twitch shooting with perfect mouse precision with the best of them in Unreal Tournament, but I can have just as much fun on a console shooter, because I understand it's a different breed.

Have fun taking sides, side-takers. I'll just go ahead and continue to enjoy both.

 

[wAriot]

I personally have never played any game that wasn't a racing or fighting one with a controller. I must be one of the few who played Dark Souls with KB+M and enjoyed it.
I just don't like three-dimensional movement with sticks. It feels like I'm not really controlling the camera, I don't know how to explain it properly, but I tend to lose immersion when using controllers.

 

[Haru17]

Shots fired. Accurately, with a mouse.

Because every game is an FPS, lol. Get back to me when your buttons are at all ergonomic, don't make me stretch my hand terribly, there is some sort of rumble functionality, and you can move in more than 8 fucking directions or with any half speed movement. Even the shit 3DS analogue stick lets you walk if you move the stick part of the way.

 

[Asclepion]

Funny comic gets the perfect response in the very first post. Well done sir.

:3

Because every game is an FPS, lol. Get back to me when your buttons are at all ergonomic, don't make me stretch my hand terribly, there is some sort of rumble functionality, and you can move in more than 8 fucking directions or with any half speed movement. Even the shit 3DS analogue stick lets you walk if you move the stick part of the way.

But that's what we love so much about PC - the options for the player to customize their experience.

If you prefer a controller, you can use one. Even a combination of different ones at the same time!

If you want a left analogue stick while still using M + KB, there's things like the Razer Orbweaver.

Use any input method you want! Total freedom of choice!

 

[Marauder Shields]

I think the best type of game you need a controller for is racing games. Keyboard buttons are all or nothing, you're either flooring it or your foot is off the gas, the controller gives you that in between that you need for corners and that's why I love my xbox 360 controller.

This, massively, but also beat-em-ups. The fact you can have your keys nicely placed under your thumbs and fingers helps massively. I have DC's Injustice: God's Among Us and it used to give me hang cramp until I got a controller.

Also - Bastion played better with a controller, and I like playing JRPG's with a controller too. Mostly because playing on a laptop straming through the TV and sitting in an armchair is much more comfortable than having the laptop on my knee, or having an unwieldy keyboard on my lap when I am only selecting actions and using a grand total of the directonal buttons plus 'select' 'cancel' and 'menu'...

I really disagree with the idea that Keyboards are bad for fighting games. There are so many advantages that you simply can't ignore. One of them being the absolute nature of the inputs that make it bad for racing games. You've got a degree of input accuracy and speed that most controllers can't rival. You can also press in two directions at once, which might not sound like much but it makes a difference in the time it takes to go from walking forward to blocking.

There's even a peripheral that many people use called a Hitbox that functions in much the same capacity as a keyboard and is lauded for its input accuracy. It costs $150 compared to my keyboard's $10.

The only downside to keyboards is that it is possible to jail the keys if you press too many buttons on the same circuit at once because of their mechanical design. This effects some games more than others. I've never seen it happen with Injustice (not exactly an input heavy game) but I can imagine it occurring more with Streetfighter because some of the moves involve pressing 3 kicks/punches at once.

Not sure if trolling or ignorant.

Ever heard of "n-key rollover" and "ghost key"?

Standard keyboard can handle only 3 selected key which is shit in Fighting game. in fighting games it requires at least 5 simultaneously key pressed thanks to all that combo key nonsense. Like it or not, keyboard can not handle such stuff unless you buy premium keyboard which cost just as much as hitbox. let alone hitboxs are more comfortable to use.

 

[FPLOON]

Oh... Then, my bad for the misunderstanding... (Should have read your comment a bit more clearer...)

Egh, no worries. Having reread my post I see how one could misunderstand my statement.

And just to be fair, most of the time I used to use a wireless controller for my Xbox360. That is, until I noticed how quickly Microsoft's official battery packs wore out. Now I just use wired on the few occasions wherein I want to use my Xbox. (or want to play certain games on my PC)

You see, I don't have that much experience with wireless Xbox360 controllers... I'm more familiar with PS3 wireless controllers where either you keep them plugged into the PS3, only plug it in so that the controller can [stay] register[ed], or buy a charging station with a mini-USB attachment for the wireless controller... I mostly do the latter because I already have too many cables running around my main gaming area as it is and, at the time, I was trying to cut back a bit...

 

[Furbyz]

I think the best type of game you need a controller for is racing games. Keyboard buttons are all or nothing, you're either flooring it or your foot is off the gas, the controller gives you that in between that you need for corners and that's why I love my xbox 360 controller.

This, massively, but also beat-em-ups. The fact you can have your keys nicely placed under your thumbs and fingers helps massively. I have DC's Injustice: God's Among Us and it used to give me hang cramp until I got a controller.

Also - Bastion played better with a controller, and I like playing JRPG's with a controller too. Mostly because playing on a laptop straming through the TV and sitting in an armchair is much more comfortable than having the laptop on my knee, or having an unwieldy keyboard on my lap when I am only selecting actions and using a grand total of the directonal buttons plus 'select' 'cancel' and 'menu'...

I really disagree with the idea that Keyboards are bad for fighting games. There are so many advantages that you simply can't ignore. One of them being the absolute nature of the inputs that make it bad for racing games. You've got a degree of input accuracy and speed that most controllers can't rival. You can also press in two directions at once, which might not sound like much but it makes a difference in the time it takes to go from walking forward to blocking.

There's even a peripheral that many people use called a Hitbox that functions in much the same capacity as a keyboard and is lauded for its input accuracy. It costs $150 compared to my keyboard's $10.

The only downside to keyboards is that it is possible to jail the keys if you press too many buttons on the same circuit at once because of their mechanical design. This effects some games more than others. I've never seen it happen with Injustice (not exactly an input heavy game) but I can imagine it occurring more with Streetfighter because some of the moves involve pressing 3 kicks/punches at once.

Not sure if trolling or ignorant.

Ever heard of "n-key rollover" and "ghost key"?

Standard keyboard can handle only 3 selected key which is shit in Fighting game. in fighting games it requires at least 5 simultaneously key pressed thanks to all that combo key nonsense. Like it or not, keyboard can not handle such stuff unless you buy premium keyboard which cost just as much as hitbox. let alone hitboxs are more comfortable to use.

Yes, I have. Note how I touched on that concept in the post you quoted. I'd like to point out before I start that I am under no circumstances saying that keyboards are better than hitboxes or fight sticks. Hit Boxes do everything KB does but better. And how could you really replace the classic Arcade joy stick? You couldn't. I do think they have an advantage over controllers in some games. Also, let's not get into comfort of use because that's about as subjective as you can get.

A keyboard can only handle 3 simultaneous keypresses if those keys are all on the same switch in a matrix grid. Not all keys are on the same switch. In short, the 3 button limitation can be mitigated (not ignored, it is ever present and looming like the radio signal from a Country Music station) by how you place your keys. I know because I had to deal with this first hand. There are combinations of keys that do not ghost even on your average keyboard. With my current set up, I can register 8 simultaneous button presses without ghosting, and my keyboard is 10 years old and came with my Compaq. Not exactly high quality. Pretty sure I'll never need to press every cardinal direction, 3 attacks, and EX at the same time though (Cue some developer in Japan making impossible to input moves) . Here's a nifty tool for finding inputs that don't lock up. http://www.microsoft.com/appliedsciences/content/projects/KeyboardGhostingDemo.aspx

With NetherRealm games, I've experienced basically no jailing. I'd never accuse them of making a good PC port, but their control scheme complements keyboard design. There are no moves that end with a diagonal direction, which require 2 buttons, or any move that end with multiple key presses and...I just realized now that a lot of my argument is based on, "It works in NRS games, so it's ok." I don't have much experience outside of those, so maybe it's a much bigger issue in say KOF or SF.

I never pretended there weren't problems with the keyboard. Ghosting is a real issue. But there are provable, objective advantages over controllers in some games.

 

[Haru17]

Funny comic gets the perfect response in the very first post. Well done sir.

:3

Because every game is an FPS, lol. Get back to me when your buttons are at all ergonomic, don't make me stretch my hand terribly, there is some sort of rumble functionality, and you can move in more than 8 fucking directions or with any half speed movement. Even the shit 3DS analogue stick lets you walk if you move the stick part of the way.

But that's what we love so much about PC - the options for the player to customize their experience.

If you prefer a controller, you can use one. Even a combination of different ones at the same time!

If you want a left analogue stick while still using M + KB, there's things like the Razer Orbweaver.

Use any input method you want! Total freedom of choice!

I was responding to a comment about keyboard and mouse controls, not one about PC gaming control options. When last I checked you cannot use a controller, keyboard, and mouse simultaneously effectively.