The Totally Hipster Elements in inFamous: Second Son

[Banzaiman]

Yes, but the energy (heat energy) you suck out has to go somewhere! Either dispersed to the general area (you'd see the heat distortion in the air), in steam, or nearby things should be catching on fire! I want to see a game where casting an ice spell causes a ring on the ground around the target to catch on fire.

That would be pretty damn cool. I mean, completely pointless if you're casting an ice spell, but awesome visual effect if someone freezes within a ring of fire.

Let's not forget that lightning and the energy contained within it pretty much travel at the speed of light. There is no dodging it. There is no "throwing" electric energy and waiting for it to hit the target.

Yeah, I got nothing for that. Come to think of it, we really shouldn't be seeing a bunch of sparks coming off of Cole's arms unless there's a bunch of metal crap around, and even then it wouldn't linger for as long as it does. I long for the day where we get an electric hero who can insta-kill anything with a spear of electricity that can't be dodged. That man (or woman) is god. Or Zeus, which is just as cool. Or Jupiter, if you want to be cooler.

 

[Toadfish1]

Wait, Yahtzee of all fucking people is complaining about something being contrarian just to appear cool?

There is not a black enough pot in the world....

 

[Aardvaarkman]

When was the last time you got knocked on your ass by a ray of sunshine? If all it took was a bit of light to hit someone then a flashlight would be the go-to weapon of choice.

I'm not sure what your point is. When was the last time that you got knocked on your ass by somebody blowing on you? Does that make air somehow not physical?

In fact, spacecraft can be powered by "solar sails" - which operate by the mass of photons bombarding the sails.

Also, you can cut through thick steel with a laser, which is just highly concentrated light. Do you not think that powerful lasers would not make good weapons? In fact, there are actual real-world proposals for missile defense that involve shooting missiles out of the sky with lasers.

 

[Aardvaarkman]

Yes, but the energy (heat energy) you suck out has to go somewhere! Either dispersed to the general area (you'd see the heat distortion in the air), in steam, or nearby things should be catching on fire!

Yes, but if he's "charged up" (this could be the "power meter" thing), then maybe the guy is really hot, like thousands of degrees, and the energy dissipated by the attack simply causes him to return to room temperature (and thus have to recharge his heat power).

I want to see a game where casting an ice spell causes a ring on the ground around the target to catch on fire.

Wouldn't the ring be around the caster, not the target?

 

[Thanatos2k]

Yes, but the energy (heat energy) you suck out has to go somewhere! Either dispersed to the general area (you'd see the heat distortion in the air), in steam, or nearby things should be catching on fire!

Yes, but if he's "charged up" (this could be the "power meter" thing), then maybe the guy is really hot, like thousands of degrees, and the energy dissipated by the attack simply causes him to return to room temperature (and thus have to recharge his heat power).

I want to see a game where casting an ice spell causes a ring on the ground around the target to catch on fire.

Wouldn't the ring be around the caster, not the target?

Well no, the target is the thing being cooled. The heat is not coming from the caster himself, but being extracted from the target, causing the icy effect.

Heat being injected would cause a firey effect, which is probably the only believable ability of the lot.

 

[Aardvaarkman]

Well no, the target is the thing being cooled. The heat is not coming from the caster himself, but being extracted from the target, causing the icy effect.

I'm not sure that's true (for a completely made-up thing) - couldn't the energy to create a stream of cold matter have come from the caster? The cold matter would absorb the heat of the target. A fire ring also assumes there's enough energy to be drained from the victim to cause such an effect.

Real-world example - if you throw a snowball at someone, it doesn't cause things in the vicinity of the target to heat up. If anything, they get colder and wetter due to the "splash effect" of the snowball.

 

[Ferisar]

Well no, the target is the thing being cooled. The heat is not coming from the caster himself, but being extracted from the target, causing the icy effect.

I'm not sure that's true (for a completely made-up thing) - couldn't the energy to create a stream of cold matter have come from the caster? The cold matter would absorb the heat of the target. A fire ring also assumes there's enough energy to be drained from the victim to cause such an effect.

Real-world example - if you throw a snowball at someone, it doesn't cause things in the vicinity of the target to heat up. If anything, they get colder and wetter due to the "splash effect" of the snowball.

I think this is more in the nature of energy manipulation -at- the location, not the other way around. As in, you don't "throw" a snowball, you turn them into an icicle.

So really, it's telekinesis.

Like every power out there according to this thread.

 

[step1999]

Wait, Yahtzee of all fucking people is complaining about something being contrarian just to appear cool?

There is not a black enough pot in the world....

I don't see how this would be an example of the pot calling the kettle black.

 

[Toadfish1]

Wait, Yahtzee of all fucking people is complaining about something being contrarian just to appear cool?

There is not a black enough pot in the world....

I don't see how this would be an example of the pot calling the kettle black.

The guys entire schtick is that he hates whats normal and popular.

 

[Kahani]

Speaking of elements, somewhat surprised this has been linked yet.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0423.html

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

Well no, the target is the thing being cooled. The heat is not coming from the caster himself, but being extracted from the target, causing the icy effect.

I'm not sure that's true (for a completely made-up thing) - couldn't the energy to create a stream of cold matter have come from the caster? The cold matter would absorb the heat of the target. A fire ring also assumes there's enough energy to be drained from the victim to cause such an effect.

Real-world example - if you throw a snowball at someone, it doesn't cause things in the vicinity of the target to heat up. If anything, they get colder and wetter due to the "splash effect" of the snowball.

I think this is more in the nature of energy manipulation -at- the location, not the other way around. As in, you don't "throw" a snowball, you turn them into an icicle.

So really, it's telekinesis.

Like every power out there according to this thread.

Its more like a reverse pyrokinesis, instead of raising temp it lowers it. But yeah pretty much what you said.

OT: It seems to me that this is more a criticism of the recycling of last weeks mechanics only the particle effects have changed. Granted I like the Infamous games, but it seems like they've stagnated more or less as far as mechanics go, and the change-up of elements seems like a copout. All in all, I liked the vampire standalone because those powers were different and that change made me think the series had more to offer. Then Second Son came out and I felt it was a step backwards, much like I disliked GTA IV for dumping a lot of the ancillary mechanics like car customization and a few other tidbits from San Andreas that made that game one of the better in the series.
I agree with the analysis and wish they would have tried to make a game that was spiritually succeeding the first two but didn't recycle powers with different FX. Lazy development in my opinion and a real detriment to the series' progress.
Basically I feel there was a lot more they could have done with Second Son but they disappointed me heavily.

 

[sXeth]

Smoke was the 'Heavy' (Grenades, Shotguns, Explody missiles), Neon was the 'Sniper', and Video was a hit-and-run roguey type thing. Sure they all had the basic 'pew-pew' blast, and the big nuke thing, but there's as much variation as any class based shooting thing.

Too much overthinking on the elements just exposes the general comic book tropes. Its like why Cyclops doesn't go flying backwards everytime he fires his eye-beams, Storm doesn't destroy the worlds weather patterns, or Gambit being able to make energy out of nothing.

 

[step1999]

Wait, Yahtzee of all fucking people is complaining about something being contrarian just to appear cool?

There is not a black enough pot in the world....

I don't see how this would be an example of the pot calling the kettle black.

The guys entire schtick is that he hates whats normal and popular.

Maybe I'm wrong, but to me it just comes across as his opinion. And he doesn't always dislike popular things (see SH2, Valve, Skyrim, Bioshock Infinite)

 

[Aardvaarkman]

I think this is more in the nature of energy manipulation -at- the location, not the other way around. As in, you don't "throw" a snowball, you turn them into an icicle.

So really, it's telekinesis.

I don't see how that fits with the game and how the powers are presented.

He needs to "drain" the matter from a source, and the meter bar fills up. The fact that he drains the source, and it fills his meter implies that he is taking the substance into his body. Kind of like a battery, it is him that is filled with smoke, neon, video, or concrete energy.

As he attacks the target, his energy levels of that substance decrease. So, I'm not sure what the basis is for thinking this is "telekinesis" or that it happens at the site of the target. All of the animations in the game look like the energy transformation happens in Delsin's body.

 

[Something Amyss]

Sadly the PS4 is still a closed platform, like all consoles and you can't really mod it without cracking the thing and possibly getting the ire of sony.

You saw modding on the 360 and Wii quite frequently. The only reason I singled out the PS4 as easier is that the PS3's complexity issues made both hardware and software modding incredibly difficult by comparison. By extension, both the successors are running standard PC architecture. By virtue, it has to be easier to get into a PS4 than a PS3.

Unless Sony truly went scorched earth. Again.

 

[DataSnake]

-How long until someone modifies the game to include "poo" as a power? Because I want to see those YouTube videos.

Spoiler: Howdy ho!

On a more serious note, what about Saints Row IV?[footnote]There's a sentence I doubt anyone's said before[/footnote] You get the same basic powers, but which element you use drastically changes what they do, gameplay-wise as well as eye-candy-wise. Blast can either ignite enemies, freeze them, or convert them to your side. TK can restore your health or damage all nearby enemies. Stomp can send enemies flying, suspend them in midair, or shrink them to GI Joe size. Also, it's the only game I can think of with a less rigorous definition of "element" than Second Son, with the likes of mind control, shrink, and (if you got the DLC) money and explosion.

 

[Ferisar]

I think this is more in the nature of energy manipulation -at- the location, not the other way around. As in, you don't "throw" a snowball, you turn them into an icicle.

So really, it's telekinesis.

I don't see how that fits with the game and how the powers are presented.

He needs to "drain" the matter from a source, and the meter bar fills up. The fact that he drains the source, and it fills his meter implies that he is taking the substance into his body. Kind of like a battery, it is him that is filled with smoke, neon, video, or concrete energy.

As he attacks the target, his energy levels of that substance decrease. So, I'm not sure what the basis is for thinking this is "telekinesis" or that it happens at the site of the target. All of the animations in the game look like the energy transformation happens in Delsin's body.

Whoa dude, I haven't played nor care about the game. Please return back to the context from whence my answer came and what the previous poster had said.

Dawg.

EDIT:
Actually, nevermind because I'm not even entirely sure that context exists outside of my head, but here: I had imagined the previous poster talking about a power that lowered the temperature of a target location severely and dispersed said energy in near-proximity, whilst turning said target into a class-A chicken-nuggets-and-other-assorted-frozen-foods coolant. If that wasn't it, pardon my intrusion upon the supersrs pyrokenesis mumblejunk dooey.

godimsodefensive

 

[Darth_Payn]

Yahtzee made up a better use of different elements having different uses than inFamous's own devs! Reminds me of how Prince of Persia: The Forgotten Sands did the Fire/Earth/Wind/Ice powers. Come on, Sucker Punch, let him write for you! I would even like a cartoon out of it (probably not on Saturday Mornings, as most non-cable networks don't have them anymore).

 

[Thanatos2k]

Well no, the target is the thing being cooled. The heat is not coming from the caster himself, but being extracted from the target, causing the icy effect.

I'm not sure that's true (for a completely made-up thing) - couldn't the energy to create a stream of cold matter have come from the caster? The cold matter would absorb the heat of the target. A fire ring also assumes there's enough energy to be drained from the victim to cause such an effect.

Real-world example - if you throw a snowball at someone, it doesn't cause things in the vicinity of the target to heat up. If anything, they get colder and wetter due to the "splash effect" of the snowball.

Well that's how things become cold - if you pick up snow in your hand, the snow absorbs heat from your hand through thermodynamics laws regarding temperature equalization. The snow becomes hotter, and your hand becomes cooler. Heat is not created or destroyed.

If someone casts an ice spell - that means the environment directly around the target and/or the target itself becomes cooler, so the heat removed from the target or environment to generate that effect had to go somewhere.

 

[Aardvaarkman]

If someone casts an ice spell - that means the environment directly around the target and/or the target itself becomes cooler, so the heat removed from the target or environment to generate that effect had to go somewhere.

But in Infamous, Delsin is not "casting spells" - as I said, the mechanic is that he "drains" a substance from a source and then depletes it. It does not appear that he is incanting the substance at the target. So, it's more like he's storing a bunch of "substance" in his body and then throwing that at the target. The visuals, story and animation in this game strongly suggest that this is very much a bodily function, not a mystical or supernatural one. The powers are portrayed as granted by genetics, not magic or spiritualism.

In the case of "ice power" the mechanic in Infamous would be like carrying around a whole lot of super-cold ice. The energy to make it cold was used at the time of creation (in a freezer or whatever) - not at the time of casting.

Note that Delsin does not create the smoke, concrete, etc. himself - he has to harvest it from the environment.

P.S:

Why would magical spells have to follow the laws of physics? Isn't the whole point of magic that it is other-worldly and supernatural?

The snow becomes hotter, and your hand becomes cooler.

Right. The heat is absorbed into the ice and it melts, until equilibrium is reached. I don't know about you, but melting an ice cube in my hand has never made the surrounding area get hotter.