The Two-Sided Approach: A Test For Escapists

[Lord Krunk]

People of the Escapist; I have a confession to make.

I have been recently posting on the forums, expressing my personal beliefs about rather touchy subjects. Of course, there are the people that disagree. However, while I have been agreed with on several occasions; I have recently found myself on the receiving end of quite a bit of flaming; due to the approach I take.

So here's to the Two-Sided approach.

People usually use a more polarised approach to a topic; either your for or against it. This can apply to the topic of games; a lot of people seem to hate games like Halo/Final Fantasy/Other outright, taking a blind eye to the benefits; and there are people who love it with a vengeance, who are often referred to as fanboys/girls.

On a more direct scale is use of a one-sided approach to controversial topics. Take the 'Feminism' thread, for example. There was a lot of flaming going on from all sides, and there was a lot of user tension.

This leads me to the point which I bring up; there are too many people who simply take a side, flaming the opposite side of the spectrum, without actually listening to what the opposite side (or the neutral one, for that matter) has to say on the subject. I have to ask this question; why can't we just be friends? Why can't we listen to each other and come to a mutual conclusion?

Yes, this is turning out to be a more broadened version of the "Why All The Hate" threads. I know.

Now, I've not always played fair. I can feel strongly about a number of subjects, and I have a tendency to play Devil's Advocate, especially when a group's decision is way too biased to be healthy. I have done this on numerous threads already. My intention is to create peace in-amongst the turmoil, but without swaying people's opinions. I want to create understanding.

So here's a little project that I have made that I pose to all users; and I hope that you can all do this fairly.

1) Take TWO things (games, topics, etc.) you feel strongly about; one you feel for and one you feel against.

2) Post them up, and give ONE reason why you think the way you do about each. Do not flame people for their reasons, this is for others to read and to contemplate.

3) *The Hard Part* Think of ONE bad/good thing about the things you like/hate. It also helps if you agree with the argument you pose. Once again, do not flame other people, this is all about understanding.

4) Read other people's posts, and try to develop an understanding for the person who posts, and the reasons they think what they do. You may not agree with them; but you may understand their way of thinking, and this is my intention.

Here is an example (Not exactly my personal choice; just to show you the way it works):

LOVE: Pokemon.

PRO: It's a great game to play with friends; especially in Link Battles. As a result, this can help you get to know a lot of people, and make friends with them.

CON: I'm way too old for it; I sometimes get embarrassed playing it in public.

HATE: Emos.

CON: This might be stereotypical; but slitting wrists is unhealthy and gruesome. Why the hell would anyone want to do that?

PRO: A lot of them are very down-to-earth, and as a result, can provide a good alternative opinion when you ask them a question.

That was quite hard for me. Nevertheless, it was meant to be difficult.

EDIT: A nice way to make my 2000[sup]th[/sup] post, no?

 

[Yassen]

Love: Games

PRO: They're mostly fun and challenge me, they can also teach the same way movies and books can except they can have a deeper experienece because you're actually getting involved.

CON: Can have a negative effect on children too young to cope and takes up a lot of my time.

HATE: Alcohol

CON: kills braincells, makes you do things you wouldn't normally do, makes you violent, can make you grow dependant on it's influence

PRO: can be useful in social situations since i hear it developes confidence

 

[Novajam]

I can agree with you to the extent that rabid fanaticism and flaming is bad for the forums, however it's only natural to have some. Otherwise this place would be a lot more... sterile. And boring.

Nevertheless, I'll give this a go.

Love: I'll get back to you on this.

Hate: Wii Music

Con: Stupidly easy to play, and feels like a gut punch to gamers who expect more of Nintendo.

Pro: Would be fun for people who don't play videogames (at all) to do in a group situation (ie. Grandparents playing with their grandchildren, companies on those teamwork-building exercises).

EDIT: Well done on 2000.

 

[Sayvara]

Hate: Homeopathy

CON: It is based on 200+ year old junk science which has completely failed to show any kind of medical efficacy in all scientifically rigorous tests made on it; because it makes ill people waste money on it, thus exploiting their plight in order to make money; because some homeopaths tell people to stop using regular meds in favour of the homeptathic preparations, which may lead to even life-threatening situations.

PRO: The placebo effect is a well documented effect which for the patient leads to the perception of improved health, which in some cases is enough.


Love: Nuclear Power

PRO: It is a low-emission, low-cost-per-watt, high-density energy source with very good reliability and safety. It is one of the few power sources apart from hydro power that can replace coal power, the latter which has a very strong adverse effect on health, killing hundreds of thousands of people every year due to lung related illnesses.

CON: I have to put up with hearing Greenpeace moan about it...

No, seriously, the main disadvantage is that it may make us lazy. Taking energy for granted makes us more vulnerable since we are making ourselves dependant on energy, which means that when we suddenly don't have it any more, for whatever reason, we suffer pretty badly.

However, the same goes for fossil power so...

/S

 

[Lord Krunk]

I can agree with you to the extent that rabid fanaticism and flaming is bad for the forums, however it's only natural to have some. Otherwise this place would be a lot more... sterile. And boring.

Now, my intention is not to create a peaceful, boring Escapist community; it's to get people to think outside the square they live in, and to just give a sense of understanding.

Of course there will still be fanboys, trolls and flame wars, but this is the internet.

I want to make a difference, not in people's opinions of other subjects, but for people's opinions of each other.

Look into the eyes of a newcomer; for instance. He/She may be finding it difficult to fit in in the beginning; feel like an outcast. However, the project I have created may give some valuable insight over who sharers their opinions, and can allow veterans to better know the newcomers, making them welcome, and providing a major self-esteem boost to all. It's a win-win situation, really.

That is but one example of the aims of this thread.

 

[WhitemageofDOOM]

Love: Kitties

Pro: There cute, and cuddly, and don't need a lot of attention.

Con: I'm deathly allergic, as in they can kill me.

Hate: Romantic Love

Con: People romanticizing(HA!) it to the point of it eclipsing it's purpose in some peoples minds. makes people act stupid. Inefficient way of selecting partners for a self aware species.

Pro: It works, and works well.

 

[Amnestic]

Love: Power Rangers

Pro: The acting and the dialogue is hilarious.

Con: No one can ever know. I must keep my love for it a deathly secret, only revealing it to you forum-goers!

Hate: Religion (controversial!)

Con: Has been known to turn people into, for lack of a better term, mindless sheeples.

Pro: Helped establish the Western World for what it is today (for better or worse) and is generally seen as a good thing.

 

[klakkat]

This is a good way to go about any decision, really. Kudos for stating it bluntly, and hopefully it'll catch on a bit. As one of those people who often say bad things about FF, I'll do that, particularly since I still weigh it's pros in my mind and don't say them because no one is currently interested in why it doesn't suck. So:

Final Fantasy (specifically, 6, 7, 10, 12) Opinion: mixed

Pro: Easy to play, story is usually followable, game mechanics typically don't take long to figure out, travel is easy enough, you're rarely left without knowing what to do, memorable villains (usually), memorable heroes (usually), graphics are good for their time, tries to add in new game mechanics of varying size and significance compared to previous games, tries to make the character feel mundane at the beginning and epic at the end

Con: Story generally becomes confusing or nonsensical at some point in the game, usually close to the end. Battle transitions and random encounters get old quickly (not applicable to 12). There are always some annoying characters by law; thankfully you can usually leave them behind. The story generally fails to grab my attention or loses it about half-way (not applicable to 6). I'm often left with no sense of achievement after some minigames. Seriously, have a lead character older than 18 for once. Some characters I can't empathize with, in some of them this may be over half the cast. Getting around is a pain, and exploration is generally discouraged by the random encounter system (exploration was passable in 12, but not encouraged). My biggest complaint though: There's no sense of *being* the character, just remotely controlling them through some gameplay sections; it clearly isn't YOUR thoughts or motives guiding them (NOTE: This complaint is a matter of taste, I fully admit it isn't really objective)

For comparison:

Fallout 2

Pros: Open world, encourages exploration; lots of freedom to interact with the world and its inhabitants. Sense of identity with the character, they are modeled by your personality, or the personality you choose to project onto them. Battlegrid-style combat, which takes place in the 'world' instead of having battle transitions. Slowly transition from mundane to epic. Guns; guns are sweet. Multiple moral decisions in a great many locations; few of them liked. Great sense of humor. Not afraid of sex themes or violence*. Detailed story that is followable and sensible. Allies not required; leave the perpetual nuisance ones behind and never talk to or see them again.

Cons: There still were random encounters (world map). Combat could be slow paced at times. Stimpacks broke realism in the name of gameplay; conversely, the lack of ally-reviving items was a gameplay nuisance for the sake of realism. Critical hits can become very annoying; specifically that one time when you haven't saved in hours because you're nice and secure in your super-armor, and a rat happens to eat your brain out through 2 inches of steel (minor complaint; this doesn't happen often at all, generally less than once per play through on average). Like any exploration-encouraging game, balance is an issue; you can randomly run into much more powerful foes whilst taking a look over that hill. Sometimes left with uncertainty over what you should be doing, or left with a goal but no idea how to accomplish it (for those of us who haven't played through it 80 times, obviously).

*note: I didn't list FF's lack of this as a fault, since pressure was pretty strong against it with older games, and there are still pressures against it with console games more than PC. The games may have been less memorable had they included bloody gore and sexual themes; granted, people do like these things, but they have to be handled responsibly and expected or you can kill the effect and ruin the game.

 

[Nimbus]

This is all very well and good in theory, but put into context with a controversial topic, like abortion or gay marriage (I just had a discussion about these on a gaming forum. Man, the internet is weird.), and it becomes a hell of a lot harder to do without selling yourself out morally.

 

[klakkat]

Nah, just be careful about how you categorize things. With large social topics, it's much more important to see pros and cons relative to society instead of your own personal opinion.

 

[Dogeman5]

Love:Escapist
Pro: Fairly Smart
Cons: The weekly Flame Wars
Hate:Bill O'Reilly
Pro: inspired Stephen Colbert
Cons:More than this thread could conjure

 

[Elurindel]

Ok, I don't love this one, but, Halo:

Pros: Great music, satisfying vehicles, being able to beat The Library on Legendary.

Cons: Way too popular, the fanbase seems to consist of way to many assholes, weapons are mostly pop guns and pea shooters.

Love: Final Fantasy VII

Pros: Great characters, cool limit break sequences, huge open world, pioneer for FF into 3D.

Cons: A little too much grind, and a disappointing final battle.

 

[Simski]

When I argument, I don't want to bring out the good qualities of their argument.
That's their job, I want to bring out the good qualities of MY argument.

Never the less.

LOVE: Team Fortress 2

PRO: A wonderful game, nice balance and challenging play. Every character is unique, and the fact that the game is still updated with new stuff every now and then is fucking awesome.

CON: It's really hard to enjoy a game when there's not enough players in each team. Some people are idiots. The letter 'd' is messed up for some reason so on some places it says "Solcier" "Mecic" etc.

HATE: Theists

CON: I find the idea of believing in something simply because you can't prove it's not there, to be terribly stupid. It can make people do terrible things, and it can also fuck up their morals pretty badly.

PRO: A good way to control the masses. May make some people more happy since they don't have to worry about death.

 

[Jaythulhu]

Love: Warhammer

PRO: I'm banned from setting up an easel after an accident involving expensive carpet, so they're the only painting I can do. Plus, the game is kinda fun.

CON: Expensive as hell, and my work isn't exactly high paying.

HATE: Political correctness

CON: Has turned multiple generations into whiney critters that choose to be offended by anything and everything with no sense of humour.

PRO: I'm now "reality adjusted" instead of "fucking weirdo". Sounds vaguely like an upgrade to me.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

LOVE: Deus Ex

Pro: Awesome story, unprecedented level of choice in story and gameplay

Con: Clunky Interface, Occasionally awkward graphics (even for its time!)

HATE: Two and a Half Men

Con: Horribly unfunny, nominated for awards it has absolutely no business being nominated for

Pro: My parents love it (so it's bringing joy into someone's life), I actually laughed once at a scene (not because of a joke, but because they totally bungled a dramatic situation in a way the show still thought was serious, but I thought was hilarious.)

 

[Lord Krunk]

When I argument, I don't want to bring out the good qualities of their argument.
That's their job, I want to bring out the good qualities of MY argument.

True. However, I do not want to stop arguments; I just want to show people the benefits of thinking with the 'Two Sided Approach'.

This is a good way to go about any decision, really. Kudos for stating it bluntly, and hopefully it'll catch on a bit.

Thanks.

 

[klakkat]

When I argument, I don't want to bring out the good qualities of their argument.
That's their job, I want to bring out the good qualities of MY argument.

True, this is a bad technique for debate. On the other hand, when preparing your argument, see their side. Then you can be prepared for everything they'll throw at you. Just don't do their arguing for you, stick to your side and gun 'em down. That's for debates though. For real life, present a balanced judgment to yourself and others unless you have a vested interest in the result going one way (then downplay the opposing side).