The Ubisoft Dilema

[SilentPony]

I guess the question becomes, do the actions of the higher ups mean you wont play a game they didn't actually develop or have anything to do with from a design standpoint?

Like if everything a company makes (not saying Ubisoft makes nothing but gold) is great and you love it, but you learn the CEO's are evil fuckheads, does that mean you morally have to shun games you like?

IF so, then capitalism in general can't be supported because every company has drama behind it. People are people and not everyone makes the best descisions, sometimes they force crunch, or they say sexist comments when they shouldn't, or whatever.

What is supposed to be ignored, and what is overlooked for the good of the industry you love? Because at some point you'd essentially have to walk away from gaming altogether because no company is safe from some sort of bullshit.

I love my some Warhammer, but Games Workshop is frequently in the running for one of the worst companies to work for. From unpaid overtime to absurd hours to no lunch break or backups to practically sweatshop conditions in their factory and printing hubs.
It would be weird for me to call out Warhammer and GW and go back to Magic, given the whole Wizards of the Coast/Pedo rings going on.

 

[CriticalGaming]

I love my some Warhammer, but Games Workshop is frequently in the running for one of the worst companies to work for. From unpaid overtime to absurd hours to no lunch break or backups to practically sweatshop conditions in their factory and printing hubs.
It would be weird for me to call out Warhammer and GW and go back to Magic, given the whole Wizards of the Coast/Pedo rings going on.

Are you still buying warhammer stuff?

 

[SilentPony]

Are you still buying warhammer stuff?

I am.

 

[CriticalGaming]

I am.

Well I guess that's ultimately my answer then isn't it?

 

[Ezekiel]

The choice is simple. You're better off without Ubisoft. Reject it. Purge it from your life. Say no. Boycott the company, as I did after I got fed up with their repetitive games.

Yeah, the only Ubisoft games I bought the last couple of years were Rayman Legends for my Switch and Valiant Hearts. They were good! Give a Ubisoft game a big budget and it becomes bottom of the barrel designed by committee crap.

 

[Bedinsis]

Yeah, the only Ubisoft games I bought the last couple of years were Rayman Legends for my Switch and Valiant Hearts. They were good! Give a Ubisoft game a big budget and it becomes bottom of the barrel designed by committee crap.

This reminds me of the time that I asked myself "where are video games made nowadays?" and decided to go through all of the games covered by Zero Punctuation to see in what country the studio behind it was located.

When I got to Ubisoft in general and Assassin's Creed in particular I ran into a problem: their games are made by studios all over the world. And while I am sure that some studios are more responsible than others(in fact, that's how wikipedia chooses to depict it nowadays, thought that was not the case when I first checked it out) it still means that the creation of an Ubisoft sandbox has to be able to have its components developed with a great deal of independence from each other. That means it will be less likely to carry a strong vision and be kept generic so that there are no hiccups in the production chain.

And to keep it related to Ubisoft's current releases: Assassin's Creed Valhalla currently lists Ubisoft Montreal as their main developer with the note "Additional development was carried out by fourteen other Ubisoft studios worldwide.". 15 is a lot.

 

[DJShaddycat]

Absolutely you should pick and choose what you're comfortable with. But I do think in fairness if you want to boycott one gaming company, you should look at others. You don't have to boycott them, but saying Ubisoft treats their employees badly so I won't play their game, I'll go play an EA title instead seems odd. You can say that Ubisoft makes the occasional good game, so I'll give them a pass on those games, but I'm boycotting all of EA. That's fair too. But you shouldn't just ignore other companies and their problems. Each one should be viewed, weighed and judged accordingly.

So you argue boycott what you feel comfortable boycotting, but recognize that companies you aren't boycotting still have similar if not the same issues?

Yeah that actually sounds like the perfect way to go about it.

 

[Kae]

While it is true that under Capitalism there can be no ethical consumption, I think Ubisoft is gross enough that we can disregard it, they're behaviour has been too gross and if they genuinely cared about the reported sexual harassment and racism Yves Guillemot would've been fired for either claiming to be too incompetent to have noticed it or for being very obviously complicit in all of this so fuck them.

 

[bobdark]

Remember you are always better off when you don't know how the sausage gets made.

 

[SilentPony]

Remember you are always better off when you don't know how the sausage gets made.

This is true to a degree. Depends on what kind of sausage, how its being made and what its made from. When it comes to magic tricks, best you don't know the trick behind it. When it comes to 1940s German villagers wondering where all the Jews went, probably best to ask where all that smoke is coming from.

In terms of games I think it is healthy to know the cost of games. To go back to Ubisoft, I played the shit out of Ass Creed Blackflag, even 100% the achievements. So I'm doing Odyssey now and knowing what went into it I feel obligated to play the shit out of it too. Knowing how Ubisoft treats their employees, and judging that I do enjoy and want open world classical era Ass Creed games, the best thing I can do if I've chosen to buy it(which I have) is actually enjoy the game.

 

[Trunkage]

I have the exact same problem with CyberPunk. CDprojekt seems like a terrible company to work for. I can understand boycotting Ubisoft based on those similar reasons

The biggest issue is that most triple A studios have something similar going on. So I’d pretty much cut most games out of my life.

I won’t be getting it day 1. I’ll wait for some sort of sale. I don’t know if that’s good enough

 

[SilentPony]

Well I guess that's ultimately my answer then isn't it?

It is, but I would like to add I'm very active in my local Warhammer community. I help teach new comers the rules, I teach painting, I've competed in every local GW painting and playing tournament, and until the T-Virus hit I wrote the rules for, organized and ran the local 40k league that saw 9 brand new players with their first armies, 4 returning players, and a bunch of local regulars for a grand total of 25 active members. The previous 2018 league has 6 total.
What I mean is that I'm very much aware of the Games Workshop reputation, and how I justify support to myself is increasing the fun and enjoyment other players have with it. If we're going to buy plastic crack and support a company that runs terrible shift hours, fuck it I'm getting more than my money's worth and so is everyone else.

I think when it comes to games, gaming and reviews there is a balance that can be achieved between calling out companies on their outdated, sexist, racists, homophobic, other-phobic horse-shit, enjoying a game they make and interacting with the larger gaming community in a positive, helpful way. Jim Sterling used to do it, he's kinda stopped playing/reviewing games in his decline these last few years(I think the whole Digital Homicide shit really took more out of him than he'd admit). Some like Angry Joe hit on a few things every now and then, and I do remember the Quartering for all his shit did cut his teeth exposing registered sex-offenders being allowed to be judges in Magic tournaments. My point being that there is a lot of ways to enjoy and review a game, while also keeping alive the conversation on game dev abuse.

Like buying, reviewing and streaming Ass Creed Vikings, and maybe donating any streaming tips you get to game development union organizations or some such. I don't stream or work in game dev, so you'll have to pick and choose the appropriate actions as needed.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

I think Ubisoft is a garbage company that makes the occasional fun game. But here's the thing; there is no such thing as a moral company. They're not here to be nice places, they're here to make money.
Coke frequently employees hitmen to kill Union leaders in South America.
GM and Ford sold tires to the Nazis even during the US involvement in WW2
Almost every clothing and electronics brand uses slave labor in Asia.
The less said about Volkswagen and where those gas trucks came from the better.
And God help you never look into the movie or music industry.
CD Pro Red, EA, THQNordic, Blizzard, Activision, Ubisoft, they're all terrible and treat employees like disposable scum. They always have and always will.
And who knows what's going on behind closed doors at Steam and Epic.

You can draw a line in the sand Picard style and say "This far, no further." and that is a good and proper thing to do, and its respectable. But it does ring hollow if you don't do it for other companies too.

Who’s prepared to go all RDR2 IRL though is the thing. We’re all simultaneously victims of and complicit in enabling a tainted modern brand of civilization, regardless of market type or political subsystem. The worst of human nature is indifferent to whatever ideals or constructs it devises.

 

[Bob_McMillan]

My attitude towards boycotts is that unless the employees themselves call for a boycott, boycotts are pretty much meaningless (especially if boycotting is the only real action you take). To me its the equivalent of "out of sight, out of mind". That happened to me personally. I was so focused on boycotting a company, eventually it and the issues that prompted the boycott just faded from my mind.

I am however confused as to how this is a dilemma. Both games genuinely look like crap to me. And I'm no Ubisoft hater, I've enjoyed pretty much every game I've played from them (although to be fair, most of them were made 5+ years ago). I didn't last through 3 minutes of Legion gameplay because the voice acting is just TERRIBLE. Valhalla looks like they put mobile game combat and animations into the most beautiful AAA open world game ever. Like seriously, my friends all enjoy the new AssCreed formula and I cannot comprehend it, because they just look awful. And I'm not willing to spend the time and money to try and see things from their perspective.

 

[stroopwafel]

My attitude towards boycotts is that unless the employees themselves call for a boycott, boycotts are pretty much meaningless (especially if boycotting is the only real action you take). To me its the equivalent of "out of sight, out of mind". That happened to me personally. I was so focused on boycotting a company, eventually it and the issues that prompted the boycott just faded from my mind.

I am however confused as to how this is a dilemma. Both games genuinely look like crap to me. And I'm no Ubisoft hater, I've enjoyed pretty much every game I've played from them (although to be fair, most of them were made 5+ years ago). I didn't last through 3 minutes of Legion gameplay because the voice acting is just TERRIBLE. Valhalla looks like they put mobile game combat and animations into the most beautiful AAA open world game ever. Like seriously, my friends all enjoy the new AssCreed formula and I cannot comprehend it, because they just look awful. And I'm not willing to spend the time and money to try and see things from their perspective.

Ubisoft's games just look to be made by a robot at this point, that just gets fed the same algorithm over and over. I have never seen so many games that are this interchangeable.

 

[Dreiko]

If the game is good that's all that matters. Ubisoft publishes Sekiro too, are we supposed to shun that since it'd support them? Please.



I'm in the process of playing AC Odyssey and yeah it's a great game, it's my first AC game as well. I think their take on vikings would be worth exploring if it's anything like how they handled ancient Greece.

 

[Dalisclock]

Ubisoft's games just look to be made by a robot at this point, that just gets fed the same algorithm over and over. I have never seen so many games that are this interchangeable.

Yeah, that's one of the reasons telling Ubisoft to fuck off doesn't feel like much like a sacrifice at this point. Valhalla might end up being very well made(or it might not) but all of their games tend to end up feeling the same anymore, with THE UBISOFT GAME being less and less of a joke all the time.

Then again, as much as I enjoy Sassy Creed, I know it's gonna be the status quo forever and it's just gonna be new variations of the same idea(like it has been). Origins was a fresh(for the series) take but it hasn't changed anything in the long run.

If the game is good that's all that matters. Ubisoft publishes Sekiro too, are we supposed to shun that since it'd support them? Please.

Activision published Sekiro.

Not that Activision is much better, mind you. I'm glad Sekiro doesn't have MTS and season passes and all that shit. On the contrary, a number of FROM fans have been asking about why Sekiro hasn't gotten DLC(and while I like FROMs DLC, I sure as hell don't want to encourage Activision to include it).

Kinda like on a related note where I guess some people were asking why Star Wars Squadrons isn't getting any DLC. It's EA, people! Don't encourage them with talk like that!

 

[CriticalGaming]

, and I do remember the Quartering for all his shit did cut his teeth exposing registered sex-offenders being allowed to be judges in Magic

Jeremy also slut shamed Christine Sprankle (a MTG cosplayer) for cosplaying just to get "nerd cred". IMO the Quartering is a shithead.

Sadly Jim has been much less fun to watch over the past 18 months or so. He doesn't do his Jimpressions much anymore, and hasn't reviewed anything in forever.

I know that on this site there are quite a few people who like to either wait for a deep discount on a game, or wait until enough positive reviews come out before they pull any trigger on a game. I am fortunate enough to remain in a position throughout the Umbrella Corp leak ( I see what you did there) that I can afford all the games I want, and if I can get a game and review it here to help forum members sort of pick and choose, then I am happy to take that hit for you guys.

So even if a company sucks dicks, I still kind feel like the titles they make are big enough that they warrant at LEAST an impressions thread.

Though if people came out and said, "Critical, nobody likes your opinions so don't waste your time." Then I would be heartbroken, but I would also save a bunch of money

 

[BrawlMan]

Jim Sterling used to do it, he's kinda stopped playing/reviewing games in his decline these last few years(I think the whole Digital Homicide shit really took more out of him than he'd admit). Some like Angry Joe hit on a few things every now and then, and I do remember the Quartering for all his shit did cut his teeth exposing registered sex-offenders being allowed to be judges in Magic tournaments.

Fuck both AJ & Quartering. I don't trust neither of them. Angry Joe is a loud idiot that can't take criticism. The Quartering....you already know my feelings on him by this point. I know Jim doesn't do much Jimmpressions or reviews anymore, but that's fine by me. He can still have meaningful discussions and conversations. He's one of the joys in my world. I still have my disagreements with him of course, but I trust him more than either of those two jackasses.

 

[Dalisclock]

Fuck both AJ & Quartering. I don't trust neither of them. Angry Joe is a loud idiot that can't take criticism. The Quartering....you already know my feelings on him by this point. I know Jim doesn't do much Jimmpressions or reviews anymore, but that's fine by me. He can still have meaningful discussions and conversations. He's one of the joys in my world. I still have my disagreements with him of course, but I trust him more than either of those two jackasses.

Yeah, I'm a little sad he's not doing more jimpressions because they're always fun to watch( I never knew "Mr Booze" was a thing until he used in his Ghost Recon:Breakpoint review and it was perfect, because apparently Jim was Drinking while reviewing) but I very much appreciate his role as a Industry Watchdog and calling companies on their shengianiery.

Also, his Contra Rogue Corps review gave the world this gem. "It strives for mediocrity and doesn't even achieve that".