The Vatican is clueless.

[LongAndShort]

One, the Vatican helped thousands of Jews escape Europe. Two, even when actual escapees arrived telling their stories the British refused to send bombers and the Americans refused to believe them. The Vatican is spot on. The Enigma excuse went out the window when the eye-witnesses and victims arrived.

One: No they didn't. The Vatican helped the holocaust. It was individual priests and catholics who risked their lives to help smuggle out Jews and the other targets of the holocaust.

Two: What exactly could the British have done? They were being bombed, the Nazi's had a good air force, and they were too busy fighting the war on the front lines to worry about what was going on all the way back in the heart of Germany.

And seriously, you are a moron. You think sending bombers to the concentration camps is a good idea? What, you think the British had magical, Nazi-seeking bombs that wouldn't have killed all the Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals, communists etc. etc. that were being held prisoner there? That the Nazis wouldn't have changed their code and moved the camps, hence nullifying the Allies advantage and prolonging the war? Bottom line; the Allies did the right thing. Had they tried to put a stop to the Holocaust then and there they would have only ended up blowing their advantage over Germany and instead condemended more people to die in the concentration camps.

Bottom line; the Vatican is trying to hide their own shame at basically rolling over and giving the Nazis lots of victims, so now they're laying the blame on the countries that actually put a stop to it.

No I'm not a moron. Yeah the Vatican did wrong, but they did still help a lot of people escape Europe. They want to canonoze The Pope at the time (I believe it was Pope Pious) for his silent efforts to help the Jews (you gotta remember he was trying to keep a anti-catholic Hitler out of his churches). They did wrong but they don't deserve nearly as much hate as people seem to be giving them. Fuck, the Swiss were far worse than the Vatican, but where's the thread against them?

And in 1942/43, the German Airforce was to busy defending Germany itself or in Russia. The Brits were pounding them day and night, then at night while the Yanks pounded them during the day. They could've bombed the ovens, or the railway tracks and at least slowed things down, not to mention the slave-labour factories and chemical plants (perfectly legitimate targets) many of which were outside Germany. They could of, but didn't. The Brits and Americans could have done something but didn't.

 

[Shaoken]

No I'm not a moron. Yeah the Vatican did wrong, but they did still help a lot of people escape Europe. They want to canonoze The Pope at the time (I believe it was Pope Pious) for his silent efforts to help the Jews (you gotta remember he was trying to keep a anti-catholic Hitler out of his churches).

Pious XII never spoke out against what the Nazi's were doing. Sure the vatican helped out, but they never condemned the Nazi's actions during the war, something which still strikes people the wrong way. Granted, a lot of critisism is false (a Soviet smear campain apparantly).

They did wrong but they don't deserve nearly as much hate as people seem to be giving them. Fuck, the Swiss were far worse than the Vatican, but where's the thread against them?

Because nobody tried to make the Swiss president a saint or paint their actions as heroic.

And in 1942/43, the German Airforce was to busy defending Germany itself or in Russia. The Brits were pounding them day and night, then at night while the Yanks pounded them during the day. They could've bombed the ovens, or the railway tracks and at least slowed things down, not to mention the slave-labour factories and chemical plants (perfectly legitimate targets) many of which were outside Germany. They could of, but didn't. The Brits and Americans could have done something but didn't.

Come off it. What you think the escaped prisoners brought detailed maps with them? Dropping bombs would have killed many of the people they were supposed to be rescuing too. And again, you keep ignoring the Enigma Code. If they did strike at the camps during 42/43 then they would have telegraphed that they had broken the code, the Nazi's would have changed it and prolonged the war and either moved the concentration camps or sped up the process of killing.

Tell me; what do you think would happen if the Allies did bomb these concentration camps? Do you honestly believe that they would be able to pull off D-Day without using the Enigma code to listen into the Nazi Warmachine?

 

[LongAndShort]

Come off it. What you think the escaped prisoners brought detailed maps with them? Dropping bombs would have killed many of the people they were supposed to be rescuing too. And again, you keep ignoring the Enigma Code. If they did strike at the camps during 42/43 then they would have telegraphed that they had broken the code, the Nazi's would have changed it and prolonged the war and either moved the concentration camps or sped up the process of killing.

Tell me; what do you think would happen if the Allies did bomb these concentration camps? Do you honestly believe that they would be able to pull off D-Day without using the Enigma code to listen into the Nazi Warmachine?

Yes. You make public the reports of the escaped Concentration camp victims. They wouldn't have brought detailed maps with them, but they would have brought basic knowledge of where they were. From there you send out Aerial reconnaissance and pin down the location, then publish those as well. It's bloody difficult to hide concentration camps and factories. And even if they didn't bomb those, they could have bombed the railway stations and at least slowed down the process. The Enigma code had little to do with it. They pulled off far greater coups (like sinking much of the U-boat fleet) without letting on they had broken the codes, they could have done the same again. The reality that no one seems to have mentioned was that a number of anti-semites within British and US high command encouraged mistrust of the escapees and that any action was not worth the risk of their bombers.

 

[cyber_andyy]

Yes. You make public the reports of the escaped Concentration camp victims. They wouldn't have brought detailed maps with them, but they would have brought basic knowledge of where they were. From there you send out Aerial reconnaissance and pin down the location, then publish those as well. It's bloody difficult to hide concentration camps and factories. And even if they didn't bomb those, they could have bombed the railway stations and at least slowed down the process. The Enigma code had little to do with it. They pulled off far greater coups (like sinking much of the U-boat fleet) without letting on they had broken the codes, they could have done the same again. The reality that no one seems to have mentioned was that a number of anti-semites within British and US high command encouraged mistrust of the escapees and that any action was not worth the risk of their bombers.

You still don't get it do you? These transmissions talking about the holocaust were some of the highest level messages in the german army. the next highest thing was hitlers personal messages, done in the Lorenz Code. The U-boat messages, were very low level and only vital ships were saved. For every shipment, the British command would go "Ok, so we don't need that, let it get attackeed, however we need that, protect it." That way, they kept the knowledge of it secret. However, anymove on the holocaust information was game over. It is so hard to move on messeges from general to general, with out it being known that you've been listening in.

 

[daxter101]

woops!
i'm a catholic.
er...i think i took a wrong turning into the alley belonging to the "lets hate the church" gang.
Sure the pope was in the hitler youth, but if you were catholic like me, you would find that he was bullied into it by his parents, if you werent in the hitler youth then you were repeatedly beatan, and the thoughts of how he had joined the hitler youth convinved him to be a priest because he was sorry for what he had done.
Dont dis the pope for that. i doubt when you join a gang that does wrong things, you appologise by joining th priesthood.
that was really brave of him, and look where its got him. good for that guy who was bullied into being a nazi.

Whoops i forgot to mention THAT I AM ALSO CATHOLIC
and whether he was bullied into it or not the fact remains HE FUNDED THE NAZIS AND THUS THE HOLOCAUST, yknow the thing that killed MILLIONS OF JEWS.
and dont bother bringing in the phsycological aspect in, because if some randoem person can be a martyr and die for their faith, then you would think the POPE could resist assisting the mass murder of an entire people

now can we please not turn this into a rage post competition please

 

[Federalist92]

woops!
i'm a catholic.
er...i think i took a wrong turning into the alley belonging to the "lets hate the church" gang.
Sure the pope was in the hitler youth, but if you were catholic like me, you would find that he was bullied into it by his parents, if you werent in the hitler youth then you were repeatedly beatan, and the thoughts of how he had joined the hitler youth convinved him to be a priest because he was sorry for what he had done.
Dont dis the pope for that. i doubt when you join a gang that does wrong things, you appologise by joining th priesthood.
that was really brave of him, and look where its got him. good for that guy who was bullied into being a nazi.

Whoops i forgot to mention THAT I AM ALSO CATHOLIC
and whether he was bullied into it or not the fact remains HE FUNDED THE NAZIS AND THUS THE HOLOCAUST, yknow the thing that killed MILLIONS OF JEWS.
and dont bother bringing in the phsycological aspect in, because if some randoem person can be a martyr and die for their faith, then you would think the POPE could resist assisting the mass murder of an entire people

now can we please not turn this into a rage post competition please

Was it not you that said he didnt know WHERE the money he was giving them was going, the pope was just trying to protect the vatican from looting and pillaging when the the Nazis invaded Rome. Also was it not an entirly different Pope then. the current pope was JUST A KID then. He couldnt help it. And he deffinatly didnt have any money to fund any Nazis as a kid.

Also i didnt start a rage post. you did just then
But...if you want to see a funny parody song about a flame war why not type in "we didnt start the flame war" into google or youtube until you find the video. its by a site called college humour.