The Victims of Homosexuality

[Grey Day for Elcia]

So, there's been a lot of talk in the forum about homosexuality lately, due in large part to the upcoming Mass Effect threequel. Both sides of the fence have gotten out of hand and I think we all need to step back and take a minute to think about the victims of homosexuality.

Homosexuals.

I'm sure it's pretty easy to sit on your comfy chair, behind your keyboard and protected by the shroud of internet anonymity while you tell everyone how wrong it is to be gay, or how immoral it is, how your god doesn't approve, how you think it's icky, etc., etc. But you know what? Shut up. Just shut up. People like that are the reason gay teens especially and adults kill themselves. While you sit there and safely tell the world how in your mind it is fucked up to be attracted to consenting adults who happen to be the same gender, people are hearing it, reading it and being told it on a daily basis. Normal people. Strangers, friends, family members, co-workers--people who you know and love, and people you've never met. These people have to listen to you tell them how sick they are. Yeah, freedom of speech; you have every right to voice your opinion. But you know what? I don't care. Shut up. You're wrong, you're a bigot and you harm people in ways some never recover from.

The only victims of homosexuality are the boy, girls, men and women who are picked on, harassed, devalued, ignored, shunned, beaten, bullied, neglected, belittled, assaulted, driven to depression; suicide and self-harm, and the people flat out murdered because close-minded asshats have a problem with what someone does behind close doors. The people who did nothing to anyone. The guy who lives next door. The woman at work. The boy at the park. The girl at school. They didn't hurt a single person and they didn't choose to be who they are. They are human beings and they want to be left alone, to fall in love with another human being and to live in peace, without people seeing their sexuality as weird and harmful to their children. They want to come to their favourite video game website and not see a bunch of bigots talking about how sick they are--they get enough of it in their every-fucking-day life.

So next time you wanna tell us all how 'wrong' and 'sick' it is to be gay, or you feel like expressing your horror at a child seeing a gay couple holding hands, take a look at yourself in the mirror and ask yourself this: who's creating the victims here?

 

[Thaluikhain]

I'd expected something rather different from the title and was expecting to strongly disagree with the OP.

 

[Zantos]

Well put. Though I don't think I've seen anyone on these particular forums make homophobic comments, that's exactly the sort of thing that needs to be said to people that think the internet veil of anonymity is their free pass to do whatever the hell they want.

This video was made by students at my university. I recognise some, and a few I'm good friends with, including some that I didn't even know were gay. Anyway, it made me feel all tingly inside.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

I'd expected something rather different from the title and was expecting to strongly disagree with the OP.

Sorry to disappoint

 

[Thaluikhain]

This video was made by students at my university. I recognise some, and a few I'm good friends with, including some that I didn't even know were gay. Anyway, it made me feel all tingly inside.

The "It gets better" thing was originally created in total denial of bisexuality, and from a very white perspective, good to see that it seems to have gotten over that.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

This video was made by students at my university. I recognise some, and a few I'm good friends with, including some that I didn't even know were gay. Anyway, it made me feel all tingly inside.

The "It gets better" thing was originally created in total denial of bisexuality, and from a very white perspective, good to see that it seems to have gotten over that.

You'll have to explain that one to me.

 

[Thaluikhain]

This video was made by students at my university. I recognise some, and a few I'm good friends with, including some that I didn't even know were gay. Anyway, it made me feel all tingly inside.

The "It gets better" thing was originally created in total denial of bisexuality, and from a very white perspective, good to see that it seems to have gotten over that.

You'll have to explain that one to me.

Savage, the guy who originally came up with it, IIRC, completely denies the existence of bisexuality. You're either gay or straight, maybe you're going through a phase, maybe you're doing it for attention, but you absolutely cannot be bisexual.

Likewise, he is very dismissive of racial problems, and wants people to be concentrating on gay issues instead.

Now, that's hardly uncommon, activists are often very selective in what causes they fight for, and tend to be just as bad as everyone else in regards to the others, and it doesn't invalidate the good work he's doing in regards to the small section of people he sees as worthy of help, but it does mean he's neglecting or adding to other people's problems.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

This video was made by students at my university. I recognise some, and a few I'm good friends with, including some that I didn't even know were gay. Anyway, it made me feel all tingly inside.

The "It gets better" thing was originally created in total denial of bisexuality, and from a very white perspective, good to see that it seems to have gotten over that.

You'll have to explain that one to me.

Savage, the guy who originally came up with it, IIRC, completely denies the existence of bisexuality. You're either gay or straight, maybe you're going through a phase, maybe you're doing it for attention, but you absolutely cannot be bisexual.

Likewise, he is very dismissive of racial problems, and wants people to be concentrating on gay issues instead.

Now, that's hardly uncommon, activists are often very selective in what causes they fight for, and tend to be just as bad as everyone else in regards to the others, and it doesn't invalidate the good work he's doing in regards to the small section of people he sees as worthy of help, but it does mean he's neglecting or adding to other people's problems.

I don't see why race would matter here. "Gay is okay" seems to be fine by itself, without "for black AND white people!".

 

[JoJo]

This is absolutely true, but it needs to be extended to a wider net of people. You think homosexuals get it bad, try transgender, or androgynous, or asexual, or furry, or non-molesting pedophile/zoophile, or rape fetishist/sadomasochist, or moving away from sexual interests: fat people, or smokers, or Asperger's people, or those with body modifications.

None of those harm other people any more than homosexuals and the gender/sexual ones don't even choose to be what they are, but it's still widely acceptable to hate on any of those in both real-life and online, to say that it's weird or sick or disgusting or weak or just wrong or that it's fucked up or that it must be a sign of a deeper mental instability. Your words have real effects people. If someone isn't harming anyone-else, let them get on with their life and save your vitriol for people who those who are actively hurting others, it's not like they are in short supply.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

non-molesting pedophile

My early life was altered by a previously "non-molesting paedophile". I'm still coming to terms with it and trying to deprive the individual the pleasure of having those years define me. I took to Buddhism a few years ago, so I try to avoid anger and negative thought, but in this case, I have trouble thinking of anything other than preemptive execution is in order. I have a very sore spot on that issue and won't comment any further on it. But I agree with the rest.

If someone isn't harming anyone-else, let them get on with their life and save your vitriol for people who those who are actively hurting others, it's not like they are in short supply.

The day the following line can be truthfully spoken will be a good day: "Boy, I just can't find any assholes to hate on today."

 

[Terminal Blue]

This is absolutely true, but it needs to be extended to a wider net of people. You think homosexuals get it bad, try transgender, or androgynous, or asexual, or furry, or non-molesting pedophile/zoophile, or rape fetishist/sadomasochist, or moving away from sexual interests: fat people, or smokers, or Asperger's people, or those with body modifications.

As an autistic, androgynous bisexual sadomasochist (who used to have facial piercings) I have a slight problem here.

You treat these things like they're all separate, forgetting that paedophilia, homosexuality and sadomasochism were once believed to be the same thing (and are still highly associated to many people). Likewise, androgyny, asexuality, transgendered identity and homosexuality are all examples of gender non-conformity. This is why we have the LGBT label, even more so with a queer political project.

Why do I think this is important. Well, because I think it's probably the best argument we have and one which is too often ignored in favour of MOPE ("most oppressed people ever") argumentation. Destabilizing the definition of what a "real man" is or what a "valued" human life should look like isn't just good for gay people, long term, it's good for everyone.

 

[Zeckt]

I don't know but to me it seems awfully hypocritical that that "it gets better" program was made in the intention that gays are correct while B's and T's are wrong. So basically he's everything that's wrong with his own message. his answer to tolerance is more intolerance? Seems wrong to even bother to continue a hypocrites legacy if you ask me.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

I don't know but to me it seems awfully hypocritical that that "it gets better" program was made in the intention that gays are correct while B's and T's are wrong. So basically he's everything that's wrong with his own message. his answer to tolerance is more intolerance? Seems wrong to even bother to continue a hypocrites legacy if you ask me.

Regardless of what you think of the person behind the message (I know nothing at all about them and little about the campaign) the message of "hey, don't kill yourself because of asshats" seems good to me.

I could have said that better, but you get me, yeah?

 

[Qitz]

Title made me think someone was hurt during gay sex or something. Shouldn't that be homophobia not homosexuality? I get what you're saying, that people being gay doesn't hurt anyone, but all the examples are more to do with someone being homophobic instead of someone being homosexual.

Well put. Though I don't think I've seen anyone on these particular forums make homophobic comments

Well, except for the guy in one of the threads who claimed it was a mental disease. Though that was responded too enough.

 

[JoJo]

non-molesting pedophile

My early life was altered by a previously "non-molesting paedophile". I'm still coming to terms with it and trying to deprive the individual the pleasure of having those years define me. I took to Buddhism a few years ago, so I try to avoid anger and negative thought, but in this case, I have trouble thinking of anything other than preemptive execution is in order. I have a very sore spot on that issue and won't comment any further on it. But I agree with the rest.

If someone isn't harming anyone-else, let them get on with their life and save your vitriol for people who those who are actively hurting others, it's not like they are in short supply.

The day the following line can be truthfully spoken will be a good day: "Boy, I just can't find any assholes to hate on today."

I'm very sorry to hear that but without trying to seem glib, he/she would no-longer count under my list then, just as a furry would no-longer be included there if they kidnapped their neighbour's cat. If you really mean pre-emptive execution of people who haven't committed a crime for a mental illness they didn't choose, then you've kinda proved the point I was trying to make. But you're right, we best not derail the thread and risk a lock.

This is absolutely true, but it needs to be extended to a wider net of people. You think homosexuals get it bad, try transgender, or androgynous, or asexual, or furry, or non-molesting pedophile/zoophile, or rape fetishist/sadomasochist, or moving away from sexual interests: fat people, or smokers, or Asperger's people, or those with body modifications.

As an autistic, androgynous bisexual sadomasochist (who used to have facial piercings) I have a slight problem here.

You treat these things like they're all separate, forgetting that paedophilia, homosexuality and sadomasochism were once believed to be the same thing (and are still highly associated to many people). Likewise, androgyny, asexuality, transgendered identity and homosexuality are all examples of gender non-conformity. This is why we have the LGBT label, even more so with a queer political project.

Why do I think this is important. Well, because I think it's probably the best argument we have and one which is too often ignored in favour of MOPE ("most oppressed people ever") argumentation. Destabilizing the definition of what a "real man" is or what a "valued" human life should look like isn't just good for gay people, long term, it's good for everyone.

Well, I agree they aren't always seperate, I myself am Asperger's (properly diagnosed, not a poser) and have a varient of SM fetish so I come under at-least two myself, though I don't think any one automatically leads to the others. But you're right, we shouldn't jump to judge or condemn people, I was recently saddened by one of the threads about transgenders by how many people said they wouldn't accept them as anything other than their birth gender.

 

[twohundredpercent]

Eh I don't think people should like drag bullying out and say it drives people to suicide. I mean if you do that it's like you're saying it's socially acceptable to kill yourself if kids at school constantly harass you. It has been proven that when word of a suicide gets around, suicides increase, so I figure it's probably the same for a type of suicide.


So I'd think it's only best to use the term 'driven to suicide' when it's an adult, going through some unimaginably bad shit, but ideally, if you want to drive suicides down you shouldn't use the term at all. It implies that other factors brought this about and they 'had' to do it.

 

[Zeckt]

I guess your right having thought it over a bit, as long as it helps people it gets my okay. But just a quick run down, bisexuals and ESPECIALLY transgenders are also very prone to suicide. The ratio of trangender suicide is quite scary, The last thing they need is even more supposed "advice" on their mental conditions.

But as I said before, as long as they can bury the ugly hatchet and it helps people. 1 man's thoughts does not make up a group even if he is its creator.

 

[Zantos]

Well put. Though I don't think I've seen anyone on these particular forums make homophobic comments

Well, except for the guy in one of the threads who claimed it was a mental disease. Though that was responded too enough.

I must have missed that, and am truly glad that I did.

 

[aegix drakan_v1legacy]

So next time you wanna tell us all how 'wrong' and 'sick' it is to be gay, or you feel like expressing your horror at a child seeing a gay couple holding hands, take a look at yourself in the mirror and ask yourself this: who's creating the victims here?

You, Sir, have just nailed this on the freaking head. Well done.

Destabilizing the definition of what a "real man" is or what a "valued" human life should look like isn't just good for gay people, long term, it's good for everyone.

And yet ANOTHER winner in the thread!

Honestly, I don't understand what all the freakin hate is about. People are turned on by what turns them on! Unless they're hurting someone, or forcing themselves on someone, I don't see why anyone should get upset over it. So what if someone like to get whipped, or likes their own sex, or whatever? I don't see how that's the business of ANYONE aside from the involved parties.

These moral crusader types can go crusade on something more relevant to them. Like...I dunno, mustard or something. What people do in their own consenting relationships is nobody else's freakin business.

 

[Zack Alklazaris]

Seems like something that should be obvious, but then again I was born in the right time to be educated to resist oppressing any race, sex, or group that doesn't commit crimes against humanity.