Thats just it, the execution isnt poor at all when you take the context into it but its still heralded as the worst VA scene ever. Without that context I would agree but its actually a more complicated scene then people tend to give it credit for.Nazulu said:
The voice acting in FFX
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You must have the patience and tolerance of a saint.Dalisclock said:
I find the whole thing insufferable. Their voices, the way they talk, the dialogue, their styles/designs, the setting, the story, their backstory's, etc. The whole package. It wants me to take it seriously, but it's so convoluted and ridiculous that it's impossible. I think I heard black hole open when I found this was popular while Godzilla 1998 is generally hated.
I've said it before, but just because a character is meant to be some kind of an ass, doesn't mean the developers can get away with putting no effort into making him an entertaining one, let alone tolerable. I mean, I really don't understand how people can just brush it off when this has all been done before a lot better. The way I see it, if you're going to put it in, you have to do it well, otherwise it will drag down the experience. There will be people that won't care, but it won't stop the criticism, so everyone will lose.
Also, there is so so many little holes and hiccups to count in FFX, and they are so easy to point out, all the stupid twists and how little sense it makes, or just how stupid the ideas are in general. I would have to write them all down for you to keep track. It would fill up a book.
Tidus might seem like he learns to shut up at times, but he will spout or do stupid stuff soon after, so don't expect any maturity, it will be easier on you.
Tidus isn't so much an ass as he is a complete bumbling idiot. It isn't even in the endearing way like Goku or whatever. He is just too stupid to exist. Also, whiny to a fault. He was Hope before Hope was a thing... except Hope had some basic intellect and was a kid, so he gets some excuse to be obnoxious and annoying. Tidus, though... is just the worse main protagonist in any Final Fantasy game I played, if not the worst character in any of the main games (only real competition is Hope.)Dalisclock said:
The fact that it's supposed to be awkward and forced doesn't excuse it from being an ear splitting, nerve grating experience to sit through. And seriously, the scene also has her teaching him how to smile, as if he doesn't know how to do this. It's not a joke, he acts like he doesn't know how to do this. It's stupid, and lame, and the intended "cuteness" of it, failed utterly, just like when shows/movies put a kid in their because "hey people like kids! kids are cute!" and everyone hates the kid because they're an annoying little shitstain.Foolery said:
OT: No Tidus doesn't get any better, he's just as annoying sounding all the way through. In fact he gets worse in my opinion, as the plot goes off the logic rails, and into Final Fantasy Insanity mode like they always do. Also his insistence that "this is my story", when structure-wise, it's really Yuna who is the hero, makes him even more annoying to me. He takes on this air of self importance to the events, and he's really not. He's the Jack Burton of the story, where Yuna is Wang, the actual hero who is fighting the threat, at personal risk. That's a Big Trouble in Little China comparison, in case it wasn't clear by the names.
No, he doesn't mature (in my opinion), but the rest of the characters are interesting enough to tolerate him I think. FF 10 suffers from (again in my opinion) the "good idea, bad execution" issue that plagues many works of entertainment. They had an interesting concept, but when you actually break it down structure-wise, the whole thing collapses into stupidity. Of course, this is par for the course for Final Fantasy, and many JRPG's in general, so I can't really say this is a "flaw" so much as just " a sign of the genre".Dalisclock said:
The series was never the same since it went from 2D to 3D, but it's also never been the same since FFX started the era of voice-acting...terribly. When they weren't annoying they were flat, and when they weren't either of those I still couldn't get into their stories because I didn't care about the pathetic group of heroes.
Voices in FFX do fit their characters well, but I think that might be highlighting the problem, because if you come up with characters that sound obnoxious, boring and stupid then what you've created are obnoxious, boring and stupid characters in a world that should not depend upon them.
FFIX is one of my favorites in the series, and I have to say if it was voiced there's no chance I would have enjoyed it as much as I did without. Putting voices in your head is one of the most enjoyable things about classic RPGs, and games like FFX and even Skyrim utterly crap on the adventure by not shutting up so I can use my imagination.
Voices in FFX do fit their characters well, but I think that might be highlighting the problem, because if you come up with characters that sound obnoxious, boring and stupid then what you've created are obnoxious, boring and stupid characters in a world that should not depend upon them.
FFIX is one of my favorites in the series, and I have to say if it was voiced there's no chance I would have enjoyed it as much as I did without. Putting voices in your head is one of the most enjoyable things about classic RPGs, and games like FFX and even Skyrim utterly crap on the adventure by not shutting up so I can use my imagination.
I've never had issues with it. I've heard worse VA for other things. I grew up in the 90's where VA for PC games was coming into play via CDROM technology... and boy howdy were some things right up there in the territory known as "awful".
It's certainly aged a bit and it's VA has been surpassed since, but I did and still just flipping love FFX.
It's heartfelt, it's emotional, it feels genuine and it strikes a chord. I think Tidus is great, a bit cheesy and OTT, but his positivity and honesty are just really warming.
The whole story and adventure is lush, it's falling in love on a summers night with beautiful woman, it's shooting a photon torpedo down a small shaft to save the rebellion, it's David & Goliath where Goliath is also someone you deep down are connected to etc.
I actually thrive on that laughing scene because, as horendously cheesy as it is, it's honest. It's two people falling for each other in the most innocent and fairy-tale type of way, and that for me - in a world full of DP's, meatholes, hoes in different area codes and goldiggers etc. - is just fricking inspiring.
FFX is pure and I love it for that. The ending is very powerful and the whole thing has a magic about it which utterly absorbed and wowed me when I first played, and still touches me today.
It's heartfelt, it's emotional, it feels genuine and it strikes a chord. I think Tidus is great, a bit cheesy and OTT, but his positivity and honesty are just really warming.
The whole story and adventure is lush, it's falling in love on a summers night with beautiful woman, it's shooting a photon torpedo down a small shaft to save the rebellion, it's David & Goliath where Goliath is also someone you deep down are connected to etc.
I actually thrive on that laughing scene because, as horendously cheesy as it is, it's honest. It's two people falling for each other in the most innocent and fairy-tale type of way, and that for me - in a world full of DP's, meatholes, hoes in different area codes and goldiggers etc. - is just fricking inspiring.
FFX is pure and I love it for that. The ending is very powerful and the whole thing has a magic about it which utterly absorbed and wowed me when I first played, and still touches me today.
I've played through FF2(on the GBA), really just to see where a lot of FF tropes originated, and the emulated version of NES FF3(which is only slightly less hard). I feel like a masochist for having done so.Nazulu said:
I guess I have a high pain tolerance, though I still haven't brought myself to start FF VIII.
Once you've noticed that they all say "you know" at the end of virtually every sentence, you'll never not notice it again. Also every time Tidus talks about his "old man".
The VA is terrible throughout. The absolute nadir for me is a bit (without spoilers) where Tidus finds out something significant that everyone else knows already. What should be a powerful moment is cringeworthy instead. The laughing scene gets a bad rap. It's annoying sure, but it's meant to be fake and awkward.
Still a great game though... I reckon I'm gonna go and play it now.
The VA is terrible throughout. The absolute nadir for me is a bit (without spoilers) where Tidus finds out something significant that everyone else knows already. What should be a powerful moment is cringeworthy instead. The laughing scene gets a bad rap. It's annoying sure, but it's meant to be fake and awkward.
Still a great game though... I reckon I'm gonna go and play it now.
Tidus DOES ask, pretty much every chance he gets for the first several hours of the game as a matter of fact. The problem is that up until he meets Auron everybody doesn't believe Tidus is who he claims to be and thus refuses to actually TELL HIM much of anything. Tidus is a guy that got basically got ripped out of a hyper advanced utopia and sent to something equivalent to medieval times, it would be hard to find somebody that wouldn't bumble around for the first few days at least and yes he does adapt and get better later on, even if he never stops pointing out how absurd and morally backward most everything in Spira is. I can't think of a single moment where Tidus has genuinely been an ass, not know about or care much for Spira's customs yes, but he's not a trained diplomat or anything, in fact he's one of the kinder and more morally upright characters in the game.Dalisclock said:
Now, about the voice acting, it's pretty good. It's not the best voice acting I've ever seen (you'd have to go play most of the Tales series of RPGs for that) but it's pretty good. The characters voices sound properly emotional to the scene, however most of their expressions do not emote properly, it's rare that they have something other than the same exact expression for most scenes. If you don't like Tidus as a character that's another thing, but his voice acting isn't the problem in the least, nor is the voice acting of anyone else, it is done very well.
I agree with you in that he's a fish out of water for most of the game and wasn't really accepted by other characters as someone from another world until Auron shows up. Although, he did seem to be kind of an immature, full-of-himself jerk jock for the beginning of the game.immortalfrieza said:
There were a few points where he did outright act like what I'd call an ass. Just after being brought to a village that could help him after being washed up on a foreign shore, he did violate a holy doctrine (though with go intentions) of the village's temple and responded to the priest's protest with "like I care!" Tidus could have been a little nicer there and said something like "Sorry, but I gotta do what feels right." He also ripped a random guy's binoculars right out of the guy's hands to stare at the female party members for a bit before tossing (what could be very expensive) equipment back at his victim.Tidus does get better later; even apologizing and saying he'll be more careful when the acolyte girl told him he addressed an important person improperly.
I do also agree the voice acting being good for FF's first go at it. Most of Auron's lines alone are pretty good.
It does get a bit better. Tidus is supposed to be on a de-jocking story arc so he stops making silly and random statements further on.
The game just doesn't hold up in terms of voice acting compared to modern games though. You have to remember how few games had done voice acting with full facial animations at this point in history. It was a necessary transition. Just like how sketchy the PS1 3D graphics looked. This is the audio and animation version of that.
The game just doesn't hold up in terms of voice acting compared to modern games though. You have to remember how few games had done voice acting with full facial animations at this point in history. It was a necessary transition. Just like how sketchy the PS1 3D graphics looked. This is the audio and animation version of that.
I've played every main series (non-MMO) Final Fantasy game and I maintain that Vanille is the WORST character in the entire series.Estarc said:
Aww, now I feel sad for you. Vanille's a sweetie pie. How can you not love her? Ah well.remnant_phoenix said:
I don't think there's a character I'd say is the worst in all of Final Fantasy. Some I really loved, some I was ambivalent towards and others grated on me. But in those instances I just put it down to personal preference, not the character being objectively bad.
Dalisclock said:
Tidus seemed to be considered annoying almost since his inception and I believe even the Japanese said so at the time the game came out. I'm sure different people have different reactions of course, but your complaints are not unusual, people really slammed him when the game was new and relevant.
It was suspected that part of the problem was they wanted to have a character that wasn't all "Emo" like Cloud and Squall beforehand, without going as cutesy as Zidane, and they simply went too far with it as Japan has a tendency to do. As a result his voice, the lines, etc... they all just kind of grate. As far as enduring character love goes the two that wound up being popular were Rikku and Auron. Wakka was kind of mocked for the way he not only acted but the fact that he was doing his whole "Mr. Volleyball" thing as a legitimate combat technique and he kind of seemed out of place a lot of the time, mostly being a tie in to one majorly promoted mini-game (Blitzball) which could be turned into a whole sideline. Lulu was literally (if I remember correctly from what the artist said) done as a fan-joke about characters with too many straps and buckles, given that her dress is made out of them.
He was, and that's part of his character arc. He realises how badly he was spoilt and grows up.Hairless Mammoth said: