The War Z Controversy Depresses DayZ Creator

[TAGM]

"i cant come to work since a employee of our competitor in new zealand broke his shinbone and i can only work if i hear that he feels better or can walk again."

"you're fired!"

"whaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?"

Yep, that's pretty bullshit there.
But, with a little research into the thing, we can come up with a much more viable excuse:

"Someone seems to have, accidentally or otherwise, stolen my idea and re-branded it for profit. He remade or stole it badly, lied about key features, said that people were simply misreading his claims after people called him out on the outright lies, tried to silence vocal dissent on his product and basically acted like a raging jackass.
and this man belongs in the same industry as me.
And, for some reason, this and other things stress me out to the point where the army medical has told me I have high blood pressure."
I think that last line more then any is the important bit. If something is stressing you out to the point where it may be the cause of health problems, it's not bullshit to pull back until it's less stressful. Not to mention that working in the indie game industry, where in general the creator sets their own fluid deadlines and aren't bound by bosses, is different to a job where you are. As in, the job you theoretically would have to be in to have the situation you presented above.

 

[Abomination]

It seems you are incapable of grasping the clear and obvious links between several ZOMBIE SURVIVAL pieces of media. And it's not Dayz or Warz. It's Day Z and War Z.

War Z is most obviously an attempt to shoe-horn in on the success of Day Z.

lets look on the response of Abomination

If you can't see the potential attempted links between Day Z, WarZ and World War Z there's little hope for you.

It is a master-stroke of parasitic marketing in naming conventions but it is also a master-stroke in failing customers and somehow managing to make a developer's already rock-bottom reputation sink further.

lets look at the three you pointed out.

World War Z: An Oral History of the Zombie War is a 2006 post-apocalyptic horror novel by Max Brooks
World War Z (film): Plan B Entertainment secured the film rights in 2007 and it stayed in developement limbo until 2011
DayZ is a 2012 multiplayer open world survival horror mod designed by Dean Hall.
The War Z is an open world zombie survival horror video game developed by Hammerpoint Interactive released in 2012.(allergedly years in developement)

only the War Z MMO is trying to be parasitic.
the links of these tree pieces of media is zombies, survival horror and that they end with the letter z.

but by that logic you should also mention that resident evil, zombiU and Project Zomboid is " a master stroke of parasitic marketing" since these also have zombies in it and are survival horror games.

and i was making fun of his "connection" between the 3 because the names end with a Z
(he also pities me..).

It appears you do not understand the concept of parasitic marketing.

War Z had next to NO marketing. But its similarity in name, genre and time of release meant people who were interested in the genre saw it as comparative to Day Z. A hefty portion of War Z's sales were because of Day Z's success.

Day Z creator has seen the incredible flop that War Z, the complete bashing by the gaming public, the title being torn from the Steam library, the countless refunds given... if you screw it up. He has seen what could happen to HIS attempts with Day Z. That wouldn't stress you out?

As for the, Resident Evil, ZombiU and Project Zomboid - yes they have a similar genre but you will also notice their release dates, strikingly different gameplay and their names have very little familiarity with each other. There is a bit of marketing spillover as is the nature of games that share a genre, but it is -nothing- compared to the similarities between War Z and Day Z.

War Z is parasitic, as in it fed off another game, not killing but weakening that game in the marketplace.

 

[Monsterfurby]

Okay, after reading this thread I am even more confused.

Could someone please explain to me how DayZ and War Z are connected? I mean, how would the failure of one personally affect the private well-being of the other's main developer?

 

[TAdamson]

I once found a copy of Sergey Titov's other game, Big Rigs: Over the Road Racing in a bargain bin at Walmart. I spent a total of about five dollars and thirty minutes on that game (including installation and uninstallation) and I still feel like he personally owes me compensation for that, to the tune of at least thirty dollars. Until I get that, I will not purchase any game that he had anything to do with, even in the most periphery manner.

P.S. Thanks

What?!!! He was involved in that debacle as well? Who is this guy? The Uwe Boll of videogames?

 

[TAdamson]

snip

There is no "lets learn" in making games.

You either have the ability, or don't. Using the game as a learning tool for your abilities only means a cobbled together project. A project that will become an incoherent mess later on when nasty bugs come up.

Secondly, why would Bohemia help Day Z? Not their game, not their project.

They would have to carry the entire development because all the modders did was a script and put it on online servers. Not exactly hard when compared to the stuff people normally do to online servers.

Minecraft, Dwarf Fortress, Project Zomboid all have one thing in common:

The creators knew what they were doing. They knew code.

These guys don't as far as I know. They have a reason to be fearful of a stand alone release. You don't just take a huge idea with no coding experience and say "ill make it."

Because that's how you end up with disasters. Game stages have nothing to do with it.

Unless they bring someone on who has an idea what they are doing, it will fail.

why bohemia would help them?

because it started as a mod for Arma 2 and just the nearly exploding expanding fanbase and the mostly positive reviews of the mod alone should make bohemia consider to bring the project on their boat.

there are dozens of games that started as a mod and turned into stand alone games:
-Team Fortress
-Aliens TC
-Defense of the Ancients
-Red Orchestra
-Killing Floor
....
the most popular one is counter strike.

and valve was clever enough to bring the project into their I.P. pool and is still making profits from that decision.
it would be foolish for bohemia for not even try anything to get that I.P.

i listed the stages to clarify how Day Z can easily bypass the desaster that The War Z turned out to be by just releasing a version and declare it alpha instead of finished/gold so the people who purchse it KNOW what they are getting into and what they should expect.

and if they have problems with programming, they should just get someone who knows how to do it.
i am sure some people in their fanbase might be willing to help them out for almost no charge and in return to be featured in the credits (and gain some notoriety).

the whole point of this long and tiresome conversation on this thread(for me at least) is that for me, deans statement is some kind of catch 22

they will continue on their game when it all has settled,
but it wont settle now that one game caused another game to stop.

and again, this whole debacle on hammerpoints side will get more attention and it will take longer to settle down than it should.

Did they copyright it? No?

Then why deal with a bunch of modders who lack every resource to make a game?

Bohemia would have to carry the entire project. So why pay for the modders for ideas? Ideas are dime a dozen, and so are mods.

The difference between Counter Strike and Day Z is that Counter strike formed its own IP. Even DOTA formed its own identity as an IP.

Almost completely custom. That's what makes an IP an IP and not just a script mod with a few extra items.

Team Fortress isn't team fortress if its 5 classes with the same weapons and skins as Half Life and using Half Life maps. Its a multiplayer mode at that point.

Day Z is just zombies added to ARMA. No art style, very few custom models, and just pretty much 90% scripting. The same as Oblivion's 28 days later mod. No difference. It stops being an IP and becomes a concept if it cant form its own distinct identity without reusing all the assets of an actual IP.

Day Z is an IP the same way "shooter" is an IP. It isn't, its a concept. Other modders went above and beyond and created their own identity. Day Z did none of that besides create a gameplay concept.

So why should bohemia help the modders or pay them for a concept the modders can't see through? Bohemia are doing 99-100% of the work anyway. Ideas are cheap in the gaming industry, and rarely worth anything. Its like walking up to a developer and saying "make an online zombie game, but give me money for my idea!" You will laughed right out of the building.

You either do it yourself or don't do it at all. Developers only do commissions if they get money up front. Especially when Bohemia is already swamped with work for ARMA III.

And relying on the community is about the worst thing you can do. Community "helpers" often just abandon the project if something comes up (after all, no pay).

if its a programmer, you are surely screwed. Asking community help is a pitfall many indie games fall into.

You do know that Dean Hall is an employee of Bohemia? That he was told by Bohemia to make a stand alone version of the game? That the stand alone version is owned and funded by Bohemia?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dean_Hall_(game_designer)#Video_game_industry

He later created DayZ, a zombie survival horror mod for the ArmA 2 tactical shooter game by Bohemia Interactive. Hall briefly left the industry to return to the army before returning for a contract at Bohemia Interactive on ArmA 3. After the success of the mod, Hall started work at Bohemia as an employee in the position of Project Lead of the standalone version of DayZ.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DayZ

On August 7, 2012, Dean Hall announced at the game's development blog that the mod was going to be made into its own game, with Bohemia Interactive as the developer, and himself as the project leader.

 

[TAGM]

if he cant handle to work in a industry with people who constantly shaft, outright lie to their customers and steal others ideas constantly(example: Zynga), than i have very bad news for him..

again, he shouldn't had comented on the War z debacle. WHY?

because he is unintentionally steering things up further into chaos.

if he has health issues he should had said "guys i have some health issues that interfere with the developement of the stand alone version of my game. Please be understandable" or "people, we are facing some unexpected problems and we have to announce that we need more time than expected"

<color=blue>this way he would "act as a gentlemen" and be discreet

but now he has (unwittingly) made hammerpoint interactive some sort of scapegoat by shifting the problem to them.

now people will see that they wont see any updates for their game, not because dean and his team need more time or because dean has health issues but because hammerpoint fucked it up to eleven.

and this whole situation will last longer than it should.

You have a point there - commenting on it does keep it going.
but the thing is, the fans were already bringing it up - this was a comment in response to people asking about War Z. As he said, he was depressed by the whole situation, and it was pretty much being dumped on his doorstep. That, and health issues, and everything else, adds up to a very busy mind.
I'm not saying it wouldn't have been more gentlemanly to just be discreet about it. What I am going to say, though, is that to expect that sort of response from nearly anyone in this situation seems just a touch too far-fetched.
P.S. thanks for putting the main points in bold, but I don't think it's 100% necessary - I'm totally ready to read all of the comment, instead of using the "tldr" cop out. (Thinking about it, it's sort of a pot and kettle situation on that front...)

 

[TAGM]

i put my main point in bold since i was pretty pissed that a lot of people started to accuse me to sympathise with Sergey Titov, even when i didnt write anything of that sort in my statements.

but thank god for you(!)
finally someone gets what i am trying to say.

Well, I didn't really see any sort of mention of anything to do with Sergey Titov myself, just the scandal surrounding the game. But, you know how it is - sometimes, we forget that issues aren't all black and white, and we end up making false dichotomies.

Anyway, I get your point now, but your original point seemed to be more along the lines of "this is a terrible excuse" then "this isn't the best way to go about it." The first I had an issue with, the second not so much.

Still, glad I could help you feel a bit better, at least. :3

 

[RicoADF]

thats bullshit.

what does the competitor of day z, war z, have to do with day z developement?

its just a stupid excuse to anounce that it may take even more for them to release a standalone version of the game.
even though he asked for more time and the playerbase gave them their blessing.

imagine i would pull that off.

"i cant come to work since a employee of our competitor in new zealand broke his shinbone and i can only work if i hear that he feels better or can walk again."

"you're fired!"

"whaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?"

It's because a lot of people have gotten them mixed up, he's probably trying to avoid more confusion and being caught up in the WarZ crap. Thank the WarZ con artists for that.