The whole "PCs aren't that expensive compared to consoles" argument

[Tharwen]

You should be careful about getting 64-bit. There are a lot of (mostly old) applications that won't run (well) on it. Example: I can't play Rome - Total War any more because it crashes at the end of each turn on this PC. Apparently it's compatible with 32-bit.

It's also harder to find 64-bit drivers.

Are you running 64-bit XP, by chance? 64-bit Vista and 7 have perfect (or near-perfect) driver support, and Rome: TW runs fine for me on Vista x64.

Windows 7, and RTW is crashing every time I try to end year 237. What remedies the driver problem is the fantastically improved Windows Update (which is one of Microsoft's best ever creations, and they didn't steal it off someone else!).

 

[Horticulture]

Just curious then, is the fans being used the standard full case with that somewhat odd centrifugal fan? I've seen the 5850 cards with all sorts of different fan layouts from different companies. Also I think you're right that the reason is probably a little more related to the overall case and ambient temps than purely the card's fault. However, I passed up a really well cooled 5850 for the stock because it was an extra $70.

When my 260 was first having artifacting issues, I took off the plastic shroud from the heatsink and stuck on an 80mm fan with cable ties. It didn't ultimately save the card, but it did bring the temps down pretty far. You could try that if you're worried about your 5850 overheating due to fan issues.

Windows 7, and RTW is crashing every time I try to end year 237. What remedies the driver problem is the fantastically improved Windows Update (which is one of Microsoft's best ever creations, and they didn't steal it off someone else!).

Google-fu indicates that it's a bug in the game [http://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?59533-237-bc-bug].

 

[Twilightruler]

Another plus to PC gaming, you actually have to have at least a basic knowledge of PC's and PC hardware. And being a PC gamer can teach you that if you don't already know it. Thus making the fact that you're inevitably going to have to use a computer in life, at least a little bit easier. If your game doesn't work on PC, there are workarounds, there is some fiddling you have to learn to do etc. With a console game, if your game stops working, there's pretty much nothing you can do but complain and try to get another copy, or diagnose various flashing red lights appearing on your console. But inside that is also another plus for console gaming. You don't need to know anything about the insides. The most difficult part of setup is getting the plastic and stickers off the game box. 99% of the time, you're good to go right out of the box. Getting the best framerate and graphics that your console can achieve right off the bat.

 

[Requx]

My computer was only $500 and it can play any game, max graphics and max resolution with 25fps or more.

it also does a lot more shit too, that lot more shit too is what makes that extra 200 make my pc a lot better than the ps3 you bought.

Can you enlighten me on how you obtained a pc that can run Bad Company , Crysis and Modern Warfare 2 at max settings in 500$ ?

 

[Rezfon]

The way I see how PC gaming is cheaper is how much you save on games. A lot of gamers will buy on average 1 game a month. If you browse pretty much any store online and high street, PC titles will be on average £15 cheaper than their console counterpart for a brand new release game. Also take into account how many years you will be gaming on said platform. Sony and microsoft both seem to have long lifetime expectations for their consoles but a lot of PC users tend to upgrade their hardware after a 5 year period. Using what I said before, if you were to buy a game for the PC rather than the consoles, you could save £180 a year, £900 over 5 years. That £900 saving could then be used to upgrade again every 5 years. Obviously the saving would go up and down depending on how many games you buy and the other extra costs that get factored into console gaming but the idea still remains the same, the more games you buy for the PC than console, the greater the saving you make.

 

[Horticulture]

Can you enlighten me on how you obtained a pc that can run Bad Company , Crysis and Modern Warfare 2 at max settings in 500$ ?

You could probably get a Radeon 4850/Athlon II X2-based system with an OS for $500. That'd be enough to run those games maxed around 720p in DX9.

 

[TOGSolid]

Now, price. Here's what I'm getting (mostly from newegg.ca as they had the best prices and selection I could find):
Power: Rosewill Xtreme Series RX750-D-B 750W - $89.99 on sale
Motherboard: MSI P55-GD65 LGA 1156 Intel P55 ATX Intel Motherboard - $167.99
CPU: Intel Core i5-750 Lynnfield 2.66GHz LGA 1156 95W Quad-Core Processor - $208.99
RAM:
Video Card: Sapphire Radeon HD5850 1GB - $298.88
Mouse and keyboard: Logitech wireless keyboard and good 8 button (programmable) laser mouse - $108.88
OS: Windows 7 Home 64 bit - $108.99

Total: $1020.22

You're doing it wrong. If you're shooting for a budget gaming system, AMD will give you a solid punch at a lower price. X58 Motherboards are inherently expensive, so by doing the switch you'll shave some more money off there also. Besides, even if you plan on doing a processor upgrade to one of the top of the line processors down the road, you'd have to swap mobos anyway to get into the i7 line since the sockets are different, so hell, might as well save some duckets now, right? Also, you're recycling parts, why are you buying a new keyboard and mouse? What case/power supply are you rocking right now?


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103846 - $100 - AMD Phenom II X2 555 Black Edition Callisto 3.2GHz
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131603 - $85 - ASUS M4A77TD AM3 AMD 770 ATX AMD Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116754 - $100 - Windows 7 Home 64 bit OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231193 - $110 - G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102878 - $224 - Radeon 5830 1GB

Total $619 - Which is roughly the price of the original PS3. Booyah.


Potentially optional depending on what you've already got:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817171036&T - $80 - ProductCOOLER MASTER Silent Pro 600W (which is plenty for this rig)

Now, before you try to compare and compare this to a console, consider this:
A good number of console titles tend to have noticeable FPS slowdowns since the hardware is pushing a game it can't actually run well. They're straddling that 30FPS line and when it dives, anyone with a practiced eye will see everything go into the 20 FPS range. Also, the graphics on a console aren't as crisp as they are on a PC since they tend to use rendering tricks to make things work on the consoles due to the limited power a console can pump out. Also remember that consoles are sold at a loss save for the Wii. Microsoft and Sony make all their money off of peripheral and game sales. Over time as technology has progressed, they're able to offer the consoles cheaper because they're essentially pushing outdated tech that is a cake to produce now. Hence why the PS3 no longer costs 600 bucks (which is the rough price for a budget desktop). You'll also pay 10 dollars more per game than for a PC game, and that adds up fast.

A note about my going with AMD: I loves me some Intel, however, I can also afford me some Intel. If you go with the i3/i5, if he ever wants to upgrade to the i7, he'll have to do a mobo swap anyway and those X58 boards are not cheap. AMD's cpus are noticeably cheaper and pump out decent performance which makes them absolutely stellar for a budget gaming rig. Also, a lot of games these days still don't make full use of quad cores. A top notch dual core will still work great AND save you money.


Now, that was all done without having a clue as to what your current system specs are. It'd be very helpful if you'd post your current rig's specs so that we can see what you have and make more informed choices. It could be possible that you just got carried away and don't need to do a whole lot to your current rig to make it gaming worthy.

To whoever said NVIDIA is the best right now - you're smoking crack, right? Their 400 series cards are terrible. The 5870/5970 from Radeon are the current powerhouses for gaming cards.

Anyhoo, I'm a PC Gamer, but not a PC elitist. My console rig is just as well built up as my actual gaming rig (which is about to get a MASSIVE face lift into the dream system catagory). I'll soon own a Wii on top of my PS3 and 360, so I'm hardly biased.

Now if only the Radeon 5970 would stop being such a ***** to get.

 

[rees263]

I had a PC from long ago before I bought new parts for it, I salvaged the RAM, PSU, Monitor, Speakers, etc. etc. and all I ended up buying was a CPU, Motherboard, and Graphics Card. That costed me maybe $250 (I also got a new case for about 90$ but that was optional, I just stopped liking my old case. And I later got a 500GB Hard Drive for my birthday, and where the hell do you buy a 500GB Hard Drive for an XBox 360?)

I think it's pretty clear which is the better value. Not to mention I've had two 360 HDDs fail on me, whereas I've NEVER had a Western Digital hard drive fail on me, whether external or internal. Same thing applies to the PS3. If you want one with a bigger internal HDD, you'll be paying considerably more. One could argue that this is because you need to store a lot more data and a lot of different types of data on a PC, but that's just another reason they're superior. Because, as someone else mentioned, you NEED a PC for work documents, video editing, efficient internet browsing, and other various applications, but nobody NEEDS a console. So if you're going to build a PC for all of its necessary functions, you might as well spend a couple hundred extra to make it your primary gaming device as well. Looking at it that way, it actually saves you a LOT of money.

The same does not apply to a PS3. You can use regular USB external drives for data storage (ie, exactly the same price as a PC) and you can also replace the hard drive with a regular Laptop HD, again not overly expensive.

My newest computer, £400. A PS3, call it £250.

Now lets compare games, todays example will be Splinter Cell: Conviction.
PC: £34.99
Console: £49.99

If you're spending £50 on a game you're doing it wrong. I've never seen a game for more than £45 and I've never spent more than £40 on a brand new game (frequently less - I got MW2 at midnight release for £28!). If you know where to look games don't cost a fortune.

OT: I have considered getting a good gaming PC (my current one has been going since 2002 and the last performance upgrade was about 4 years ago), but it doesn't seem worth it at the moment. I already have a PS3 and Wii, and all my PC gaming interests are fulfilled by what I have. I'd have to upgrade so much it would probably cost almost as much as replacing everything. Aside from FPS and RTS I'm perfectly happy with a controller (and I'm pretty used to console FPS now as well). When the next generation of consoles comes around we'll see, but I'll probably still get consoles, if only for the exclusives.

 

[TOGSolid]

What a silly argument. But it's a varied one. This really is based on what games you want to play. If you want to play the best games, in the best graphics, I feel like upgrading PC's is even, if not more costly then buying a console and 4 of your favorite games. The medium point though is if you want to do the example above, minus the hardcore gamer aspect. If you know how to shop, and how to spot deals, you can easily build a really good computer for 500-700 dollars.

I personally feel that it really depends on the person, and the size of their wallet.

That's the other bit, is that a lot of time, when posting budget builds, we're just going off part lookups. Newegg and other sites constantly offer combo deals that will shave even more off of the price of your pc. And as I mentioned before, console games cost 10 more dollars a pop and all the accessories are overpriced. A PC pays for itself over time quite nicely.

The funny part is that in the argument, people often forget a HDTV will cost quite a chunk of change too. Often you'll be looking at the thousand dollar mark right there with the TV plus console. A pc monitor costs what...150 bucks? Give or take? PCs ARE cheaper, but nobody wants to take the time to research and build one.

 

[Horticulture]

Heh, I was reminded of the first panel:
http://art.penny-arcade.com/photos/215551739_g2Hwf-L-2.jpg

 

[lacktheknack]

I bought a computer for $2800, then figured out how to build computers myself and quadrupled its performance three years later for $750.

Really, it comes down to build or buy.

 

[Godhead]

I dumped about $2,000 into my gaming rig, and only spent $300 on my Xbox 360... do the math

You probably didn't research your sale which made you spend at least $800 more?

OT: PC's are more versatile. We can mod, upgrade, and do other shit without moving from one machine. We also spend about $10 less on new video games.

 

[UberNoodle]

Getting a kick ass PC is expensive. So is buying a kick ass console. But it is a grave exaggeration that a kick ass PC can be cheaper than a console. Same price: perhaps. However such a cheap PC is a gimped PC. I mean this in the sense that it has to be compromised. A PC is an investment, whereas a console is not. From building my PCs I agree that you can make a powerful one cheaply but what is sacrificed are many aspects that PCs benefit greatly from in the long term.

Also, one 'debating technique' that I don't like is the whole 'you paid THAT MUCH? I got the same/equivalent part for half that price!'. Really? link please! Share your source. I know very well that there are many great PC hardware deals to be found, but the operate word is 'found', and perhaps it's just me, but when examining the meaning of 'expense', I factor in the effort to compare prices, shop around, and click back and forth for hours on the Net.

The argument that a PC doesn't need to be a thousand dollars or more is entirely true. Such PCs are prebuilt, full of features you'll either uninstall or never use, and have a well known lable. The major issues that attract people to console and drive them away from PCs are less to do with price and more to do with convenience, simplicity and reliability.

When I say reliability, I am talking about performance. Ever PC gamer knows the feeling of installing a game and wishing that there was more juice under the hood. Recommended Settings options will usually give a smooth game, but every PC gamer tweaks. You tweak because the option is there, like the Fruit of KNowledge was there for Adam and Eve. You can't resist.

And that also encompasses the idea of simplicity and convenience, but also less common but still far too often mysterious errors for which only a few hours in the forums can fix. A PC is used for so many things clashes happen. Every PC user that uses their PC for more than just 'instruction manual' activities has had these experiences.

So, to buy a console or PC is a complicated issue, but many PC gamers imply that it is only the price. Perhaps this is because they are used to the extraneous, and often timeconsuming matters that surround their platform. MOst console players would rather not delve under the hood. They want relative ease, like turning on a TV and changing channels. Whereas on PC, every nth reboot, something strange occurs that requires some fiddling - famously, MS will update something that inadvertently shatters a fragile balance elsewhere, and you end up reinstalling some stuff. It's not common, but the console use mentality is the 'appliance user' mentality. They want to avoid the possibility of such problems as best they can.

Sadly though, even consoles are losing these traits of convenience, simplicity, consistancy and reliabilty.

 

[Godhead]

Suggestion noted!

I secretly hoped that you'd give a one-word answer

I saw what you did there.

 

[PrimoThePro]

Whhoooo that is expensive. TBH, I am not really a PC gamer, mostly consoles, and I'm quite devoted there, but my brother is a huge fan of PC and PC games. So I know what's what. Like it cost him upwards of $1200 to build his amazing black monolith from space computer. It really is amazing, and when I hear people go, "Oh you know I spend more because I own a console." Now, granted, you are more likely to download games with a PC, and buy them with a console, but still. $1200

... ... ... ...

$1200

... ...

Ridiculous.

 

[Phoenix Arrow]

My laptop was free and runs everything I've thrown at it in max specs. Your move, consoles.
I'm not a PC gamer though, as a rule I play first person games on PC and third person on Xbox. I find keyboard and mouse better than a joypad, apart from for fighters of course, but I dunno. I guess I grew up playing third person games and I played them with a joypad.

 

[vazzaroth]

My PC is very comparable to the OP's but with a faster Dual Core (Quads are still not supported enough for me). It cost almost the same money, but I had mine assembled for me (Sans Graphics card, I bought my Nvidea off of newegg seperatly). The whole thing was pretty easy and fun. I also have a ps3. Here's some cost comparasons: (FYI Total estimates)

PS3: 500$ (Launch model, with ps2 backwards compatability. Oh how I miss that... See below T_T)
PC: 1050$

PS3 Games: 50-60$ each
PC games: 10-50$, some free. (lots of beta and free ware, and honestly we can't discount Pirating when it comes to these things... I know I will Pirate a game I'm interested in if I might not like it, especially if there's no demo)

My personal Repair expenditures (Including upgrades)
PS3: First broke. 3 weeks Console-less for repair process. Shipped back inferior model and smaller HD. Bought better HD for about 100$. PS3 total about 600 now.
2nd broke out of warranty. Eventually bought new one for about 350. That puts me at about 950$.

PC: Added old HD for free with about an hour's work. Occasional dust out, about 30 mins. Might upgrade graphics card soon for about 150$.

5 games each:
PC: Aprox 180 bucks assuming some are 20$, most are 30-50.
Ps3: Aprox. 250. Maybe 200 if you get some used.

In my book, PC wins at overall cost. If a console breaks, most of the time you need a new one, or have to deal with shitty service (Including downgrades like I got). A PC breaks, you replace the broken part for usually less than 100$. Not to mention the PC outdate timeline is slower than the console lifespan historically. Or at the very least, you can upgrade incrementally, which is totally impossible for consoles.

Consoles are cool if you want an Apple-like experience: Simplified, less knowledge required, less entertainment and usefulness returned. But the way I see it, if PC gaming is an option, it's always better.

 

[HvD]

I'm a PC gamer, for many reasons.
1. I use my computer for a lot more than gaming so the expensive hardware is well used anyway.
2. I HATE the controllers on consoles(dunno why just never liked em)
3. Games are generally cheaper
4. While I have to put up with the glitches that occasionally crop up I like to fiddle with settings and Mods so...
5. I can play a 20 year old game on my current PC if I want
I'm not being an elitist or anything I just enjoy PC gaming more than console gaming. And before you all jump down my throat, I do own a console as well, a glorious old NES, on which I play duck hunt.