the "Why didn't they just shoot Voldemort?" thread

[Treblaine]

yes, muggle train station, however it wouldn't need to be there if wizards never left the wizardry world in the first place, right? look at the weaslys, they live in the wizardry world yet we first meet them in the muggle world, so the idea of there being a secret apartied between muggles and wizards is right out the window and falls down a million foot drop on to sharp pointy rocks resulting in instant painful death.

You may just have been fortunate never to have experienced racial segregation, or not been fortunate enough to be educated on it, but apartheid/segregation is not that they NEVER come in contact. The segregated groups walk the same streets and may use the same large municipalities, but they are de-facto divided in opportunities and ability to interact. For example in a black-white racially segregated society, Whites would have their own station platform and only whites would be allowed on there, their own train. I think even you must have heard how in the Deep South of Antebellum America black people were forced to sit at the back of the bus. Muggle's can't even get on the platform let alone the train!

ah, but you see the muggles aren't aware of wizards existence, so everyone's the same to them. in a real de-facto segregation, people would be all like "oh hey, that's persons black, use the back of the bus please"
but for muggles it's like "oh hey, you're wearing a suit just like me, we're not that different"
"indeed...what are the odds"

so if the muggles aren't aware, no hard feelings right? besides, it's not so much of a secret segregation as it is a government contrived cover-up to protect national interests. blacks had a glorius civil rights movement while wizards have a memory removal spell.

Homer (on being discovered of bringing a gun into the family home): "I swear to god Marge, you have to understand! You were never supposed to find out!"

Deception is no excuse. People are still dying and suffering in the NHS when they could spare millions. Our schools are floundering and billions are being wasted of scientific research that isn't factoring the effect of magic.

UK government spends hundreds of millions of pounds on overseas aid, even in the middle of this crippling financial crisis, even to countries like India where their government is arguably in a better position to provide aid to their citizens. Wizards seem to do NOTHING! They have explicit non-involvement practices and even laws.

 

[mega48man]

Homer (on being discovered of bringing a gun into the family home): "I swear to god Marge, you have to understand! You were never supposed to find out!"

Deception is no excuse. People are still dying and suffering in the NHS when they could spare millions. Our schools are floundering and billions are being wasted of scientific research that isn't factoring the effect of magic.

UK government spends hundreds of millions of pounds on overseas aid, even in the middle of this crippling financial crisis, even to countries like India where their government is arguably in a better position to provide aid to their citizens. Wizards seem to do NOTHING! They have explicit non-involvement practices and even laws.

did you ever watch men in black? the first one, not the second one.

IMAGINE HOW THE WORLD WILL REACT WHEN THEY DISCOVER AN UNDERGROUND SOCIETY OF MAGIC PEOPLEz

it's just like E.T., if they're found out then the world's governments and militarys will want to abduct them, research on them, test them, exploit them, kill them out of fear, etc.

as K once easily put it;
taken out of context, he could be talking about wizards. wizards could potentially help the world towards world peace, but look at bad eggs like voldemort who believe the two worlds should never coexist. there would be magical acts of terrorism so impacting that the world would see all wizards as a threat and a menace, just look at the wrap muslims got after 9/11!

 

[Smithburg]

Can't... stop... laughing... at gun weilding harry gif...

 

[Treblaine]

Homer (on being discovered of bringing a gun into the family home): "I swear to god Marge, you have to understand! You were never supposed to find out!"

Deception is no excuse. People are still dying and suffering in the NHS when they could spare millions. Our schools are floundering and billions are being wasted of scientific research that isn't factoring the effect of magic.

UK government spends hundreds of millions of pounds on overseas aid, even in the middle of this crippling financial crisis, even to countries like India where their government is arguably in a better position to provide aid to their citizens. Wizards seem to do NOTHING! They have explicit non-involvement practices and even laws.

did you ever watch men in black? the first one, not the second one.

IMAGINE HOW THE WORLD WILL REACT WHEN THEY DISCOVER AN UNDERGROUND SOCIETY OF MAGIC PEOPLEz

it's just like E.T., if they're found out then the world's governments and militarys will want to abduct them, research on them, test them, exploit them, kill them out of fear, etc.

as K once easily put it;
taken out of context, he could be talking about wizards. wizards could potentially help the world towards world peace, but look at bad eggs like voldemort who believe the two worlds should never coexist. there would be magical acts of terrorism so impacting that the world would see all wizards as a threat and a menace, just look at the wrap muslims got after 9/11!

Well the popular reaction to our world (that is used as the basis of the Muggle world in Harry Potter books) LOVES the Wizarding world and probably would be excited as crap at interacting with them... till they realise how racist and segregationist they are forbidding any wizards from curing and helping all the sick and poor muggles. We only see the books from Harry Potter's perspective, privileged enough to enter this world, they'll get mad when it's becomes self evident what I have so far described.

Wizards keep their world secret not for the muggle's benefit... but for THEIR OWN SELFISH BENEFIT!

"just look at the wrap muslims got after 9/11!"

Not very bad to be honest. In America there are far less hate crimes against Muslims than there are against Jews and Homosexuals! Everyone but the most racist make the distinction between extremist Islam and Muslim individuals, and those who don't make the distinction are more violent against gays/jews/blacks/etc. There was a net increase in Muslims in New York post-9/11 from s many white Americans willingly converting to Islam.

 

[mega48man]

did you ever watch men in black? the first one, not the second one.

IMAGINE HOW THE WORLD WILL REACT WHEN THEY DISCOVER AN UNDERGROUND SOCIETY OF MAGIC PEOPLEz

it's just like E.T., if they're found out then the world's governments and militarys will want to abduct them, research on them, test them, exploit them, kill them out of fear, etc.

as K once easily put it;
taken out of context, he could be talking about wizards. wizards could potentially help the world towards world peace, but look at bad eggs like voldemort who believe the two worlds should never coexist. there would be magical acts of terrorism so impacting that the world would see all wizards as a threat and a menace, just look at the wrap muslims got after 9/11!

Well the popular reaction to our world (that is used as the basis of the Muggle world in Harry Potter books) LOVES the Wizarding world and probably would be excited as crap at interacting with them... till they realise how racist and segregationist they are forbidding any wizards from curing and helping all the sick and poor muggles. We only see the books from Harry Potter's perspective, privileged enough to enter this world, they'll get mad when it's becomes self evident what I have so far described.

Wizards keep their world secret not for the muggle's benefit... but for THEIR OWN SELFISH BENEFIT!

"just look at the wrap muslims got after 9/11!"

Not very bad to be honest. In America there are far less hate crimes against Muslims than there are against Jews and Homosexuals! Everyone but the most racist make the distinction between extremist Islam and Muslim individuals, and those who don't make the distinction are more violent against gays/jews/blacks/etc. There was a net increase in Muslims in New York post-9/11 from s many white Americans willingly converting to Islam.

god dammit treblaine, you're turning into rush limbaugh, THINK OF THE BIG PICTURE!!!

by their own selfish benefit i'm sure you mean self protection. mankind over thousands of years have developed and perfected the art of mass and even systematic killing. whether it be through war or genocide, mankind are masters of death. if the world witnessed a magical act of terror, the world would panic and immediately crack down on anything related to magic. thousands of wizards would die b/c one evil wizard terrorist, aka voldemort.

you must not live in america. after 9/11, EVERY muslim american was seen as a walking bomb. at the airports when they do "random selective screenings" every name they call is muslim +1 pretty white girl. they got a REALLY bad wrap, you must not live in a diverse area. i'm from metro detroit, HUGE muslim population in detroit.

the wizarding world is held separate from the muggle world by de jure, nor de facto. there is no hate for muggles except from the death eaters, just look at mr. weasly! he's fascinated by them! they're only kept secret for each other's protection, that's it. you know how when you REALLY want something that everyone else had but your parents say no? no hard feelings, it's just in your best interests despite how much you may disagree.

now if you insist on keeping this argument going, i won't know why. this started out as a playful argument but now i'm at the point where i'm repeating myself which means i'm not getting through. now i've got college stuff to do, SO GOOD DAY SIR!

 

[Treblaine]

did you ever watch men in black? the first one, not the second one.

IMAGINE HOW THE WORLD WILL REACT WHEN THEY DISCOVER AN UNDERGROUND SOCIETY OF MAGIC PEOPLEz

it's just like E.T., if they're found out then the world's governments and militarys will want to abduct them, research on them, test them, exploit them, kill them out of fear, etc.

as K once easily put it;
taken out of context, he could be talking about wizards. wizards could potentially help the world towards world peace, but look at bad eggs like voldemort who believe the two worlds should never coexist. there would be magical acts of terrorism so impacting that the world would see all wizards as a threat and a menace, just look at the wrap muslims got after 9/11!

Well the popular reaction to our world (that is used as the basis of the Muggle world in Harry Potter books) LOVES the Wizarding world and probably would be excited as crap at interacting with them... till they realise how racist and segregationist they are forbidding any wizards from curing and helping all the sick and poor muggles. We only see the books from Harry Potter's perspective, privileged enough to enter this world, they'll get mad when it's becomes self evident what I have so far described.

Wizards keep their world secret not for the muggle's benefit... but for THEIR OWN SELFISH BENEFIT!

"just look at the wrap muslims got after 9/11!"

Not very bad to be honest. In America there are far less hate crimes against Muslims than there are against Jews and Homosexuals! Everyone but the most racist make the distinction between extremist Islam and Muslim individuals, and those who don't make the distinction are more violent against gays/jews/blacks/etc. There was a net increase in Muslims in New York post-9/11 from s many white Americans willingly converting to Islam.

god dammit treblaine, you're turning into rush limbaugh, THINK OF THE BIG PICTURE!!!

by their own selfish benefit i'm sure you mean self protection. mankind over thousands of years have developed and perfected the art of mass and even systematic killing. whether it be through war or genocide, mankind are masters of death. if the world witnessed a magical act of terror, the world would panic and immediately crack down on anything related to magic. thousands of wizards would die b/c one evil wizard terrorist, aka voldemort.

you must not live in america. after 9/11, EVERY muslim american was seen as a walking bomb. at the airports when they do "random selective screenings" every name they call is muslim +1 pretty white girl. they got a REALLY bad wrap, you must not live in a diverse area. i'm from metro detroit, HUGE muslim population in detroit.

the wizarding world is held separate from the muggle world by de jure, nor de facto. there is no hate for muggles except from the death eaters, just look at mr. weasly! he's fascinated by them! they're only kept secret for each other's protection, that's it. you know how when you REALLY want something that everyone else had but your parents say no? no hard feelings, it's just in your best interests despite how much you may disagree.

now if you insist on keeping this argument going, i won't know why. this started out as a playful argument but now i'm at the point where i'm repeating myself which means i'm not getting through. now i've got college stuff to do, SO GOOD DAY SIR!

You call me Rush Limbaugh then immediately trot out the fallacy of "look at the big picture"... which is a fallacy as it asks to ignore the small and IMPORTANT details!

Magical act of terrorism? Why would all wizards been rounded up for that when we have lived with terrorism for decades now and haven't resorted to that. This is paranoia. Why would we commit genocide against wizards who could cure world hunger... if they could be bloody well bothered to.

"you must not live in america. after 9/11, EVERY muslim american was seen as a walking bomb. at the airports when they do "random selective screenings" every name they call is muslim +1 pretty white girl. they got a REALLY bad wrap, you must not live in a diverse area. i'm from metro detroit, HUGE muslim population in detroit."

I work on proof. Where is your proof that "every Muslim was seen as a walking bomb", how do I know that is not just your personal prejudice? In practice they lost no particular civil liberties, all of use (both sides of atlantic) came under higher security precautions. Where is the proof that they were excessively targeted by random searches? If you mean actual questioning it's not unreasonable to actually investigate someone for terrorist indoctrination from where they have been. It's as bad as some frat guy travelling back from Thailand to being searched for smuggling drugs!
It's pretty obvious they are not thorough enough as with several Muslim bombers who almost succeeded in detonating a bomb on a plane, the Shoe-bomber then the underpants bomber. Now EVERYONE has to have their shoes x-rayed, EVERYONE gets deep frisked. Those bombings were only foiled by the excessive security measures (that everyone endured) that made the bombs so small and impractical that they were too hard to properly detonate.

"just look at mr. weasly! he's fascinated by them (muggles)!"

Never once used his awesome magical powers to save the millions of muggles in need. Though he easily could have. He's fascinated by them like exotica animals, not as people, not as equals. He sees them as quaint.

TLR If you insist on ignoring all of my uncomfortable points that every wizard in Harry Potter is a total jerk then I suggest you don't take part in this debate. Because Rowling has through naivete created a horribly unjust world, but tried to present it in a whimsical and extremely one sided way.

I don't think you realise how much I and so many others wish you could just wave a magic wand and make these horrible things of the world end. Only someone who has lived an extremely sheltered life in the west could see muggles as being lazy and exploitative to want wizard magic... and what do you know, the main target market for Harry Potter.

 

[rayen020]

My argument is that it seems to me all wizards/witches are racist motherfuckers who who look at muggles the same way they did 1000 years ago. Simplistic, dumb, and to be protected like children at best(oh i'm sorry you got tortured by wizards, here let me make it better by erasing you're memory of it.) or vermin to be exterminated at worst (Wizard might makes wizards right). Of course they wouldn't think of shooting Voldemort, "muggles don't have anything that could kill the most evil wizard of all time. Plus they aren't destroying the earth and environment through pollution and global climate change, if they were we'd know it and fix it."

This has been my problem with the wizarding world for awhile. They take children with magical talent at a young age, before they can realize or understand any of the real world problems, and indoctrinate them to believe that wizards have the best lives and as long as it doesn't affect wizards it doesn't matter. And in the process they've given science, technology, engineering, education (non-magic education), equality, and progress. And even worse anyone who has any muggle knowledge from they're childhood, or displays even the slightest interest in muggles beyond the casual "oh hey they exist", is labeled badly (mudblood and blood traitor respectively).

No, they wouldn't think of killing voldemort with a gun because god forbid the muggles have something that approaches magic. I kinda played out the HP world as a thought experiment, and came to realize unless wizards start to drop their preconceived notions about muggles and help out in a constructive way, eventually muggles will have technology that outstrips magic and will insulate themselves from wizards. Sad really.

TLR; Wizards are racist so they wouldn't think of using guns.

 

[mega48man]

You call me Rush Limbaugh then immediately trot out the fallacy of "look at the big picture"... which is a fallacy as it asks to ignore the small and IMPORTANT details!

Magical act of terrorism? Why would all wizards been rounded up for that when we have lived with terrorism for decades now and haven't resorted to that. This is paranoia. Why would we commit genocide against wizards who could cure world hunger... if they could be bloody well bothered to.

"you must not live in america. after 9/11, EVERY muslim american was seen as a walking bomb. at the airports when they do "random selective screenings" every name they call is muslim +1 pretty white girl. they got a REALLY bad wrap, you must not live in a diverse area. i'm from metro detroit, HUGE muslim population in detroit."

I work on proof. Where is your proof that "every Muslim was seen as a walking bomb", how do I know that is not just your personal prejudice? In practice they lost no particular civil liberties, all of use (both sides of atlantic) came under higher security precautions. Where is the proof that they were excessively targeted by random searches? If you mean actual questioning it's not unreasonable to actually investigate someone for terrorist indoctrination from where they have been. It's as bad as some frat guy travelling back from Thailand to being searched for smuggling drugs!
It's pretty obvious they are not thorough enough as with several Muslim bombers who almost succeeded in detonating a bomb on a plane, the Shoe-bomber then the underpants bomber. Now EVERYONE has to have their shoes x-rayed, EVERYONE gets deep frisked. Those bombings were only foiled by the excessive security measures (that everyone endured) that made the bombs so small and impractical that they were too hard to properly detonate.

"just look at mr. weasly! he's fascinated by them (muggles)!"

Never once used his awesome magical powers to save the millions of muggles in need. Though he easily could have. He's fascinated by them like exotica animals, not as people, not as equals. He sees them as quaint.

TLR If you insist on ignoring all of my uncomfortable points that every wizard in Harry Potter is a total jerk then I suggest you don't take part in this debate. Because Rowling has through naivete created a horribly unjust world, but tried to present it in a whimsical and extremely one sided way.

I don't think you realise how much I and so many others wish you could just wave a magic wand and make these horrible things of the world end. Only someone who has lived an extremely sheltered life in the west could see muggles as being lazy and exploitative to want wizard magic... and what do you know, the main target market for Harry Potter.

oh my fucking GOD

[HEADING=1]REMEMBER DISTRICT 9? DID YOU SEE THAT MOVIE? OK, SAME THING BUT WITH WIZARDS, THAT'S WHY THEY STAY IN HIDING. GOD DAMMIT.[/HEADING]

"just look at mr. weasly! he's fascinated by them (muggles)!"

you stare at animals in a zoo and go "WOW THAT'S AWESOME!" but do you help them by freeing them into the wild? no because that's AGAINST THE FUCKING RULES

you work on proof eh? well you know what? IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME i don't need to pull up an article about it because most people in america have heard about those dumb selective screenings they do on airplanes and in airports that started years ago. and when i said every Muslim was seen as a walking bomb, i didn't mean the government began tracking them (although i bet they do) but i meant that most people starting holding a strong prejudice towards muslims after 9/11.

it's been over 10 years now and we've gotten over it. but back then there was this muslim kid in our social studies class who was talking about the strong prejudices held towards muslims following 9/11, and he felt a little condemed by all of it. as the class clown he said "if you type muslim in google it will say "did you mean bomb?" funny guy.

seriously, if you want to have a discussion about the hypothetical (what would happen if wizards reveal themselves) don't say "i work on proof" because everything is [HEADING=1]fucking hypothetical[/HEADING]

[HEADING=1]NOW I AM JUMPING OUT THIS WINDOW[/HEADING]

[HEADING=1]AND INTO A DIFFERENT THREAD[/HEADING]

 

[Biodeamon]

why exactly voldermort doesn't use a nuke on hogwarts is beyond me. The wizards can literally not ven recognize a cup of cappucino, what makes them think they'll recognize a nuke??

 

[Treblaine]

You call me Rush Limbaugh then immediately trot out the fallacy of "look at the big picture"... which is a fallacy as it asks to ignore the small and IMPORTANT details!

Magical act of terrorism? Why would all wizards been rounded up for that when we have lived with terrorism for decades now and haven't resorted to that. This is paranoia. Why would we commit genocide against wizards who could cure world hunger... if they could be bloody well bothered to.

"you must not live in america. after 9/11, EVERY muslim american was seen as a walking bomb. at the airports when they do "random selective screenings" every name they call is muslim +1 pretty white girl. they got a REALLY bad wrap, you must not live in a diverse area. i'm from metro detroit, HUGE muslim population in detroit."

I work on proof. Where is your proof that "every Muslim was seen as a walking bomb", how do I know that is not just your personal prejudice? In practice they lost no particular civil liberties, all of use (both sides of atlantic) came under higher security precautions. Where is the proof that they were excessively targeted by random searches? If you mean actual questioning it's not unreasonable to actually investigate someone for terrorist indoctrination from where they have been. It's as bad as some frat guy travelling back from Thailand to being searched for smuggling drugs!
It's pretty obvious they are not thorough enough as with several Muslim bombers who almost succeeded in detonating a bomb on a plane, the Shoe-bomber then the underpants bomber. Now EVERYONE has to have their shoes x-rayed, EVERYONE gets deep frisked. Those bombings were only foiled by the excessive security measures (that everyone endured) that made the bombs so small and impractical that they were too hard to properly detonate.

"just look at mr. weasly! he's fascinated by them (muggles)!"

Never once used his awesome magical powers to save the millions of muggles in need. Though he easily could have. He's fascinated by them like exotica animals, not as people, not as equals. He sees them as quaint.

TLR If you insist on ignoring all of my uncomfortable points that every wizard in Harry Potter is a total jerk then I suggest you don't take part in this debate. Because Rowling has through naivete created a horribly unjust world, but tried to present it in a whimsical and extremely one sided way.

I don't think you realise how much I and so many others wish you could just wave a magic wand and make these horrible things of the world end. Only someone who has lived an extremely sheltered life in the west could see muggles as being lazy and exploitative to want wizard magic... and what do you know, the main target market for Harry Potter.

oh my fucking GOD

[HEADING=1]REMEMBER DISTRICT 9? DID YOU SEE THAT MOVIE? OK, SAME THING BUT WITH WIZARDS, THAT'S WHY THEY STAY IN HIDING. GOD DAMMIT.[/HEADING]

"just look at mr. weasly! he's fascinated by them (muggles)!"

you stare at animals in a zoo and go "WOW THAT'S AWESOME!" but do you help them by freeing them into the wild? no because that's AGAINST THE FUCKING RULES

you work on proof eh? well you know what? IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME i don't need to pull up an article about it because most people in america have heard about those dumb selective screenings they do on airplanes and in airports that started years ago. and when i said every Muslim was seen as a walking bomb, i didn't mean the government began tracking them (although i bet they do) but i meant that most people starting holding a strong prejudice towards muslims after 9/11.

it's been over 10 years now and we've gotten over it. but back then there was this muslim kid in our social studies class who was talking about the strong prejudices held towards muslims following 9/11, and he felt a little condemed by all of it. as the class clown he said "if you type muslim in google it will say "did you mean bomb?" funny guy.

seriously, if you want to have a discussion about the hypothetical (what would happen if wizards reveal themselves) don't say "i work on proof" because everything is [HEADING=1]fucking hypothetical[/HEADING]

[HEADING=1]NOW I AM JUMPING OUT THIS WINDOW[/HEADING]

[HEADING=1]AND INTO A DIFFERENT THREAD[/HEADING]

Megaman... calm down. I know exactly the scenario you have been describing, but what you have never done is given any reason for why it would happen. District 9 the aliens were not hunted down and imprisoned, they were barely competent refugees that were fenced in and never made any serious attempt to break out.

"but do you help them by freeing them (Zoo animals) into the wild?"

I have in fact donated to Zoo-run programs that try to reintroduce wild animals back into the wild. Though the vast majority raised in captivity couldn't survive in the wild and were taken into zoos because they were too sick to survive in the wild. Also, these are ANIMALS! Wizards are people who CAN survive in their environment and are reasoning beings, no need nor excuse to lock them up and stare at them like zoo animals. They are just people with magical abilities. Why would there be any comparison to Zoo animals?

"everything is FUCKING HYPOTHETICAL"

First, Calm down. Second, everything isn't hypothetical. Even then, a hypothesis has to be based on some empirical facts. The thing is modern western society is far more tolerant and accepting than the Wizards have demonstrated, there is no reason for wizards to make this assumption of subjugation by the muggles.

 

[mega48man]

Megaman... calm down. I know exactly the scenario you have been describing, but what you have never done is given any reason for why it would happen. District 9 the aliens were not hunted down and imprisoned, they were barely competent refugees that were fenced in and never made any serious attempt to break out.

"but do you help them by freeing them (Zoo animals) into the wild?"

I have in fact donated to Zoo-run programs that try to reintroduce wild animals back into the wild. Though the vast majority raised in captivity couldn't survive in the wild and were taken into zoos because they were too sick to survive in the wild. Also, these are ANIMALS! Wizards are people who CAN survive in their environment and are reasoning beings, no need nor excuse to lock them up and stare at them like zoo animals. They are just people with magical abilities. Why would there be any comparison to Zoo animals?

"everything is FUCKING HYPOTHETICAL"

First, Calm down. Second, everything isn't hypothetical. Even then, a hypothesis has to be based on some empirical facts. The thing is modern western society is far more tolerant and accepting than the Wizards have demonstrated, there is no reason for wizards to make this assumption of subjugation by the muggles.

damn, i forgot about my gifs from photobucket, oh well. anyway;

Spoiler

[HEADING=1]SSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH[/HEADING]
[HEADING=2]this thread used to be about why harry didn't just shoot voldemort, now we're talking about district 9[/HEADING]

[HEADING=2]^this thread[/HEADING]

 

[Treblaine]

Megaman... calm down. I know exactly the scenario you have been describing, but what you have never done is given any reason for why it would happen. District 9 the aliens were not hunted down and imprisoned, they were barely competent refugees that were fenced in and never made any serious attempt to break out.

"but do you help them by freeing them (Zoo animals) into the wild?"

I have in fact donated to Zoo-run programs that try to reintroduce wild animals back into the wild. Though the vast majority raised in captivity couldn't survive in the wild and were taken into zoos because they were too sick to survive in the wild. Also, these are ANIMALS! Wizards are people who CAN survive in their environment and are reasoning beings, no need nor excuse to lock them up and stare at them like zoo animals. They are just people with magical abilities. Why would there be any comparison to Zoo animals?

"everything is FUCKING HYPOTHETICAL"

First, Calm down. Second, everything isn't hypothetical. Even then, a hypothesis has to be based on some empirical facts. The thing is modern western society is far more tolerant and accepting than the Wizards have demonstrated, there is no reason for wizards to make this assumption of subjugation by the muggles.

damn, i forgot about my gifs from photobucket, oh well. anyway;

Spoiler

[HEADING=1]SSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH[/HEADING]
[HEADING=2]this thread used to be about why harry didn't just shoot voldemort, now we're talking about district 9[/HEADING]

[HEADING=2]^this thread[/HEADING]

Dude... YOU(!) brought up district 9! Now you are complaining about how District 9 was mentioned when you are the one forcing discussion in that direction! You have derailed this thread and now think you can end this discussion by pointing that out?

Nope.avi

Back on the rails: Rowling is naive and lazy writer, has inadvertently made all her wizards racist/elitist jerks who you can have very little sympathy for. You can't argue against these points so you derail this thread with irrelevant District 9 comparisons. Stop it.

 

[mega48man]

Dude... YOU(!) brought up district 9! Now you are complaining about how District 9 was mentioned when you are the one forcing discussion in that direction! You have derailed this thread and now think you can end this discussion by pointing that out?

Nope.avi

Back on the rails: Rowling is naive and lazy writer, has inadvertently made all her wizards racist/elitist jerks who you can have very little sympathy for. You can't argue against these points so you derail this thread with irrelevant District 9 comparisons. Stop it.

and now i derail it with my slap happy cock

Spoiler

[HEADING=1]SEE WHAT I DID THAR?[/HEADING]

my ability to take this thread seriously any longer has grown tired, i hope you've enjoyed the gifs.

 

[C2Ultima]

Sorry, but this "Why didn't they shoot Voldemort" argument is just garbage. It's bewildering that anyone is so desperate to claim that "Harry Potter is crap" that they'll go to any ridiculous argument they can to try to validate their point. Even so, let me go through it here.

1. Muggle technology doesn't work around magic.

You tell me some sort of electronic device doesn't work, I get it. Theres no telling what a magical aura could do to electricity. However a gun is mechanical and chemical. I have to assume if a pully and rope can work in Harry's universe a revolver would work to. Maybe you could argue that the gun powder wouldn't combust... But an obvious solution to that would be just use the wizard-chemical-equalvelent of gun power. Then you got yourself a magic gun!

Let's ignore the argument of "Where the hell are they supposed to get a gun?"

First, you point out that the powder might not combust, which it probably wouldn't, to which you suggest "magic" powder. Even assuming that any of them knew how the inner workings of a gun operate, who's to say they could easily invent "magic gunpowder" that would work exactly the same as normal gunpowder and not destroy the gun? Hell, why can't they just send the bullet at him as quickly as a gun by magic? That brings me to the next point....

2. Voldemort would just be able to stop the bullet with magic

Bullshit. First off, most of the spells require either saying a two syllable word and making a motion with the wand and I doubt Volde could do that against a bullet. Secondly, Voldemort being the racist that he is wouldn't know what a gun is/does if he saw one so he wouldn't have anyway of anticipating the impending bullet.

Voldemort doesn't need to speak to perform magic. He can conjure a thick metal shield out of nothing in a fraction of a second, and since he is a Legilimens (he can read minds basically) he would instantly know what you were trying to do with it. By that, I assume the response would be "oh they could use a long range sniper rifle", but again even if you're assuming that they would know how to use a gun or could hire a muggle who did and erase his memory later (assuming they could find one that is), who's to say that he couldn't sense the bullet coming? Voldemort has improved his magical and mental capabilities at the cost of everything else, that he isn't even human anymore. Who's to say he couldn't see it coming?

I'll let you have this one, since I don't support this argument either. Voldemort wouldn't "regenerate" really, he'd just exist as a sort of spirit, a fraction of a soul, and he'd still need someone to make another body for him. At that point, you can only argue that someone would return for him someday.

4. If they did that there wouldn't be a story.

NO! I freaking hate this response, because all it is trying to cover up how poor the story really is. Hey, I get a kick out the series, but this is a glaring serious plot hole. The whole reason the stakes are high is because the magic world assumes that unless Harry stops volde the muggles wouldn't stand a chance... Truth of the matter is, and JK Rowling said so herself, that in a straight up war with the magical realm the muggles would win. We have vastly superior technology and armor, not to mention numbers.

Let's assume that none of the other arguments exist and this is the only one.

This argument is a lot more credible then you make it out to be. Sometimes, good stories require things to be overlooked.

There's the all too familiar Lord of The Rings plot hole (why didn't they take the eagle to Mordor instead of walking there). Is Lord Of The Rings a bad story?

Why couldn't they just throw an atom bomb onto Silent Hill?

Why couldn't the rebels build their own super gun to destroy the Death Star, or alternatively, create their own equivalent of an atom bomb to take care of it?

Why couldn't Chell, after escaping the test chambers, kick down any of the locked doors and make it out of the facility that way?


I have no problem admitting when something has flaws, but I hate to see people saying that a minuscule detail makes something bad. Harry Potter is a good story and even though it does have a few plot holes (I can think of several besides this nonexistent one) it's still enjoyable, so why not let it be?

 

[Orinon]

Here's my reason.
The story is about the Heroes Journey and guns don't fit in this kind of story,
Guns are very low skill, Yes I know many guns are dangerous and require practice but let me put it this way.
in some area's people are killed because some idiot got his hands on a gun, not even a large one a low caliber pistol. That's not as true with something like swords or even magic the power comes form the person using it. The Story of Harry Potter is about a person who is unique, they have the ability to do the impossible.
Guns ruin this, anyone who has a gun can do damage, Gun itself also tends to lack meaning, it's just a weapon, it's very rare (it happens in some stories but not many) that the gun used by the hero means anything more than a weapon, Harry's wand is highly meaning full it has a story it CHOSE him.

So yes if they used a gun it would be over, but then the story wouldn't be as interesting.

Another Point, Gun fights require something else to make them Dynamic, with swords or spells it's possible, Swords it a series of thrusts and parries, it's tense as you watch wondering who will win, same with magic they can blast at things but they can also block and counter each others spells.
Guns no such thing, you can't stop a bullet, yes there's armor but those tend to be reserved for fake outs. so instead there has to be a reason they keep missing, they move around a lot, There's lot of things to hide behind, oh and in many movies, the hero can get close, so they engage in hand to hand combat.

now some of this (Running ducking for cover) is done with spells, but on the other hand the fact that they can be blocked, and that the spells have a visible projectile they have a bit more effect then just some bullet holes.

So I accept that a gun would be possible but that would make the movie worse not better.

 

[klaynexas3]

Okay from the other topic, someone brought up the question about why they didn't just shoot Voldemort. Now I use to watch these movies with my ex and drive her up the wall with all my questions cause really a LOT of what the magic community does doesn't make sense and is overly pretentios, but this question I investigated in earnest.

Arguments the dim-witted harry potter fan gives as to why the gun wouldn't work...
1. Muggle technology doesn't work around magic.
2. Voldemort would just be able to stop the bullet with magic
3. Voldemort will keep regenerating until the horcruxes are destroyed
4. If they did that there wouldn't be a story.

well... heres my counter argument,

1. You tell me some sort of electronic device doesn't work, I get it. Theres no telling what a magical aura could do to electricity. However a gun is mechanical and chemical. I have to assume if a pully and rope can work in Harry's universe a revolver would work to. Maybe you could argue that the gun powder wouldn't combust... But an obvious solution to that would be just use the wizard-chemical-equalvelent of gun power. Then you got yourself a magic gun!

2. Bullshit. First off, most of the spells require either saying a two syllable word and making a motion with the wand and I doubt Volde could do that against a bullet. Secondly, Voldemort being the racist that he is wouldn't know what a gun is/does if he saw one so he wouldn't have anyway of anticipating the impending bullet.

3. So Voldemort comes back... Just keep shooting everytime he resurrects. It's not like it's instantaneous, and you could probably do it several times before he actually could come up with an effective counter... and even then, just have hermione snipe him from across the pond. The time granted (instead of being wasted fighting him with magic) would be invaluable in finding the remain horcruxes.

4. NO! I freaking hate this response, because all it is trying to cover up how poor the story really is. Hey, I get a kick out the series, but this is a glaring serious plot hole. The whole reason the stakes are high is because the magic world assumes that unless Harry stops volde the muggles wouldn't stand a chance... Truth of the matter is, and JK Rowling said so herself, that in a straight up war with the magical realm the muggles would win. We have vastly superior technology and armor, not to mention numbers.

The only reason, the only GOOD reason why they didn't shoot Voldemort is because Harry just plain didn't think of doing it... and seeing as how both he and hermione both came from the muggle world and never once even lampshaded it I see is a major flaw in the whole series.

Maybe Voldemort had himself charmed as he did his horcruxes. You had to use something magical to destroy those, you couldn't just shoot it. I doubt he's about to go around after he has already died without the utmost of protection as he can have. Also, while it wasn't said in the movies, in the books you could cast spells without saying anything, the saying stuff is just to help with concentration. And you can perform magic without a wand also, I bet Voldemort could have found something out within the 14 years as a ghost to that effect. It is a slightly big hole, but there is enough there to infer what might be the reasoning of it.

 

[DudeistBelieve]

Okay from the other topic, someone brought up the question about why they didn't just shoot Voldemort. Now I use to watch these movies with my ex and drive her up the wall with all my questions cause really a LOT of what the magic community does doesn't make sense and is overly pretentios, but this question I investigated in earnest.

Arguments the dim-witted harry potter fan gives as to why the gun wouldn't work...
1. Muggle technology doesn't work around magic.
2. Voldemort would just be able to stop the bullet with magic
3. Voldemort will keep regenerating until the horcruxes are destroyed
4. If they did that there wouldn't be a story.

well... heres my counter argument,

1. You tell me some sort of electronic device doesn't work, I get it. Theres no telling what a magical aura could do to electricity. However a gun is mechanical and chemical. I have to assume if a pully and rope can work in Harry's universe a revolver would work to. Maybe you could argue that the gun powder wouldn't combust... But an obvious solution to that would be just use the wizard-chemical-equalvelent of gun power. Then you got yourself a magic gun!

2. Bullshit. First off, most of the spells require either saying a two syllable word and making a motion with the wand and I doubt Volde could do that against a bullet. Secondly, Voldemort being the racist that he is wouldn't know what a gun is/does if he saw one so he wouldn't have anyway of anticipating the impending bullet.

3. So Voldemort comes back... Just keep shooting everytime he resurrects. It's not like it's instantaneous, and you could probably do it several times before he actually could come up with an effective counter... and even then, just have hermione snipe him from across the pond. The time granted (instead of being wasted fighting him with magic) would be invaluable in finding the remain horcruxes.

4. NO! I freaking hate this response, because all it is trying to cover up how poor the story really is. Hey, I get a kick out the series, but this is a glaring serious plot hole. The whole reason the stakes are high is because the magic world assumes that unless Harry stops volde the muggles wouldn't stand a chance... Truth of the matter is, and JK Rowling said so herself, that in a straight up war with the magical realm the muggles would win. We have vastly superior technology and armor, not to mention numbers.

The only reason, the only GOOD reason why they didn't shoot Voldemort is because Harry just plain didn't think of doing it... and seeing as how both he and hermione both came from the muggle world and never once even lampshaded it I see is a major flaw in the whole series.

Maybe Voldemort had himself charmed as he did his horcruxes. You had to use something magical to destroy those, you couldn't just shoot it. I doubt he's about to go around after he has already died without the utmost of protection as he can have. Also, while it wasn't said in the movies, in the books you could cast spells without saying anything, the saying stuff is just to help with concentration. And you can perform magic without a wand also, I bet Voldemort could have found something out within the 14 years as a ghost to that effect. It is a slightly big hole, but there is enough there to infer what might be the reasoning of it.

How can he charm himself against something he has absolutely no concept of?

The best argument I've heard against it is the fact that one can not get firearms in London.... However that does give me pause to wonder where the hell were all the AMERICAN Wizards during all this shit. I mean, they play other schools in the Quiditich game.

 

[2012 Wont Happen]

It takes place in England. Its not so easy to get a gun.

 

[Spade Lead]

Frankly, I say ole' Tom hates normal people because nothing he's got can amount to "I am death, destroyer of worlds." and never will.

Pretty much this in a nutshell. Once someone says, "Hey, Prime Minister, you need to launch a cruise missile attack on this spot, don't ask why, just do it!" the books are done.

"Hey, there is a standoff at Hogwarts which has shielding physical objects cannot penetrate? One nuclear armed aircraft inbound. Give it twenty minutes..."

Oh wait, the UK doesn't have Nuclear armed aircraft anymore. Better call up good ole 'Merica and get an ICBM or Cruise missile on it... Surely there is an American fleet, or at least an AEGIS cruiser, nearby.

 

[Spade Lead]

Let's ignore the argument of "Where the hell are they supposed to get a gun?"

First, you point out that the powder might not combust, which it probably wouldn't, to which you suggest "magic" powder. Even assuming that any of them knew how the inner workings of a gun operate, who's to say they could easily invent "magic gunpowder" that would work exactly the same as normal gunpowder and not destroy the gun? Hell, why can't they just send the bullet at him as quickly as a gun by magic? That brings me to the next point....

Fred and George make firecrackers, Magic Gunpowder or not, shit can be made to explode on command

Voldemort doesn't need to speak to perform magic. He can conjure a thick metal shield out of nothing in a fraction of a second, and since he is a Legilimens (he can read minds basically) he would instantly know what you were trying to do with it. By that, I assume the response would be "oh they could use a long range sniper rifle", but again even if you're assuming that they would know how to use a gun or could hire a muggle who did and erase his memory later (assuming they could find one that is), who's to say that he couldn't sense the bullet coming? Voldemort has improved his magical and mental capabilities at the cost of everything else, that he isn't even human anymore. Who's to say he couldn't see it coming?

That is a Bullshit answer. I already suggested earlier, CRUISE MISSILE!

Let's assume that none of the other arguments exist and this is the only one.

This argument is a lot more credible then you make it out to be. Sometimes, good stories require things to be overlooked.

There's the all too familiar Lord of The Rings plot hole (why didn't they take the eagle to Mordor instead of walking there). Is Lord Of The Rings a bad story?

Why couldn't they just throw an atom bomb onto Silent Hill?

Why couldn't the rebels build their own super gun to destroy the Death Star, or alternatively, create their own equivalent of an atom bomb to take care of it?

Why couldn't Chell, after escaping the test chambers, kick down any of the locked doors and make it out of the facility that way?

The Rebels on Star Wars HAD nuclear weapons of their own, what do you think a "Proton Torpedo" really is? A fission weapon.

I have no problem admitting when something has flaws, but I hate to see people saying that a minuscule detail makes something bad. Harry Potter is a good story and even though it does have a few plot holes (I can think of several besides this nonexistent one) it's still enjoyable, so why not let it be?

I don't recall him saying it was bad at all in the OP, but maybe he has since then, I missed out. Anyway, flaws make something harder to believe, and that makes something less enjoyable because it breaks the flow. I loved Harry Potter, but it isn't even in the top 6 lists of my favorite Non-Star Wars series (There are two Star Wars series that push it down even further). It was enjoyable, but there are other things that I enjoyed more because they had much less glaring plotholes.

This is what I would have done had I been a Muggle Minister.

"Hey, would you like some help? I have a team that can shoot something the size of a (insert small British coin then hold one up for emphasis) from nearly 2 kilometers away. Or, you know, we have giant mobile fortresses that shoot shells the size of your head 16 kilometers before exploding. How about I round up a bunch of them and we make this sodder pay?"

Maybe that is just the fact that I have been reading Tom Clancy novels since I was 13, but that sounds even more awesome...