Mechanical and chemical machinery work just fine in Hogwarts. The locks on the doors all work without magical help, which is on par with the mechanics of most guns. There is also the train, which appears to run on steam and not on magic, which requires combustion to be possible. Also, if chemical machines don't work, which our entire body is made of, would mean students would drop dead as soon as they take a step into the castle.HentMas said:It is stated in the books that muggle technology doesnt work as it is supposed to with too much magic around it, in the sense that it can become erratic, as in a gun could explode in the hand of the wielder or it could just not fire, "magic in the air" makes things like that volatile and random in the chemical sense
The problem isn't ability, it is reaction time. Your average round can go anywhere from 800 to 1400 feet per SECOND, which takes less time to cross the room than you have to think a single letter, or even to comprehend that a gun has been fired. Also hitting a super sonic tiny piece of lead with a glowing piece of energy that has been shown slow enough to dodge from only feet away is not that easy.it is stated in the books that by the mere thought of the word and a slight motion in the wand, the most experienced and powerfull wizards can cast spells without utering a single word, take for instance "sectusempra" which can be cast withouth saying the words and works best that way because it was intended to be used as a surprise attack, also, Voldemort knew several things about the muggle world because he was muggle born himself, if anyone tryed to get near him with a gun, a simple "protego" would keep him from harm
Well, how would he know what killed him? The bullet got to him even before the SOUND of the bullet did. When he returns YEARS later, confused as to how a lowly muggle killed him, he may find out but doesn't mean he will instantly know how to counter it? You expect him to have a shield charm on ALL the time. While raised in an orphanage, we have no idea how much he learned about guns, or if he remembers any of it. How much do you remember from the classes you took before you were eleven?lets say you shot him the first time and miraculously the gun worked fine and the bullet "killed" him, when he gets back he will know what a gun does, and as stated before a simple protego would avoid him further injury, even more your reasoning doesnt makes sense in the world they live because it is highly doubtful that hermionie would be able to perform a sniper shot, let alone any being that hasnt being trained in the military... also to note is the fact that the only one that knew about the horcruxes Voldemort made was Dumbledore and Harry, that knowledge required a lot of investigation in the past memories of severall people to string together (it was supposed to be a forbidden AND forgotten magic) and even then they had no proof or evidence that he actually made any, so it would again be the duty of Harry to find them and destroy them given that most of the people that gave them that information where afraid of being framed and placed under arrest for severall reasons and the info had to be bullyed from them.
No, it is simply because they are from a society that shuns muggle tech and weapons, which is in a nation that makes it impossible for a citizen to own a gun. As three minors in the U.K., where are they going to get a gun? Neither Harry nor Hermione have any reason to know a gun runner, nor is Hermione going to let them steal one from the police over the Statue of Magical Secrecy.the main reason the magic world is against being discovered by the muggle world is that same thing you are saying, the muggles would erradicate all kinds and forms of magic killing thoudsands of wizards and other magical beings, something no one wanted and voldemort was too... stupid to think a simple muggle could be a treat to him, Harry wasnt protecting so much the muggle world, he was protecting the wizard world from being destroyed.
also, dont get so mad about being wrong, you like the series, cool, but there is logic in the world of Rowling, and that last response is just the polite way of saying "i know no matter what i say you will keep trying to find something to ruin the story so i will just give you something to stop arguing with me by accepting you are right but i dont care"
any more inquiries feel free to write them to me, i have read the whole set of books over 10 times and know every single aspect from them, i hated the movies because they left things unexplained (like that exact gun question you are pondering)
This.FalloutJack said:Another good explanation is that the wizarding community just puts too much faith IN magic, believing that technology is really just a thing, a parlor trick (rather ironic mode of thinking that it is). In short, hubris! They live in a world of dragons, hexes, and flying brooms! The comfort and safety of a well-armed fighter jet with machine guns and missles would be lost upon them.
Frankly, I say ole' Tom hates normal people because nothing he's got can amount to "I am death, destroyer of worlds." and never will.
You may be forgetting the fact Harry's a fucking wizard.Mr.Mattress said:I think the Reason Harry doesn't get a Gun and shoot Voldemort is because... He's in England! How easy is it to get a gun in England? From what I've heard, it's rather hard. Heck, How easy is it for a 17-18 year old to get a gun in England? I would imagine its harder!
And how much money does he have to go to America to buy one, then use his wizard powers to bring it back to London without him getting in a ton of trouble? It's more of a burden then it is a benefit.
Saving the Potters might have undone Voldermourts death. Something which the ministry would not have risked. People are unlikely to use the time turners to go back long periods of time. Undoing events that you went back to undo would result in the events taking place anyway as you would have forgotten to go back in time to undo the events.caviar1 said:goodpoint, they still couldve saved the potters though and stopped voldemort the first time, right?
This. It's freaking magic - not even the wizards know all the spells, the whole thing is completely open and undefined. Here's a spell that will blow up a street, here's an hour-glass that turns back time, here's an instant teleportation spell, here's a spell that pulls whatever you called for towards you, here's a spell that instantly kills, here's a blast of energy that can punch through stone summoned with a flick of a wand, here's a potion that allows you to transform into anyone else, here's one that instantly brainwashes your target, here's shields against perception, here's a trick to fit an extra house in a terrace, here's a spell of flight, here's a powder that lets you walk out of fireplaces.Kendarik said:Not really, because the would wipe it all away and in fact stop the detonation in the first place.Matthew94 said:They are fans who take a book too seriously. There is no way to argue with stupidity. Imagining scenarios is fun but any actual arguments just makes me face palm.
All you would need is a nuke and bye bye hogwarts, even if you stop the blast the radiation will be there for years.
You can't stop magic with science because you can handwave the science away with more magic if you want.
Counter: For most magics, technology suffers minor chaotic effects (See Dresden), firing a gun would be more likely to blow your own hand off. Not to mention a gun would glow like crazy to a real wizard.SaneAmongInsane said:1. You tell me some sort of electronic device doesn't work, I get it. Theres no telling what a magical aura could do to electricity. However a gun is mechanical and chemical. I have to assume if a pully and rope can work in Harry's universe a revolver would work to. Maybe you could argue that the gun powder wouldn't combust... But an obvious solution to that would be just use the wizard-chemical-equalvelent of gun power. Then you got yourself a magic gun!
1. Most, not all.2. Bullshit. First off, most of the spells require either saying a two syllable word and making a motion with the wand and I doubt Volde could do that against a bullet. Secondly, Voldemort being the racist that he is wouldn't know what a gun is/does if he saw one so he wouldn't have anyway of anticipating the impending bullet.
1. Ammo3. So Voldemort comes back... Just keep shooting everytime he resurrects. It's not like it's instantaneous, and you could probably do it several times before he actually could come up with an effective counter... and even then, just have hermione snipe him from across the pond. The time granted (instead of being wasted fighting him with magic) would be invaluable in finding the remain horcruxes.
And technology works on a set of hugely specific rules. If I increase your body temperature by 2 degrees, you go into instant collapse. If I warp metal by a millimetre, your gun/car/tank is just a useless hunk of metal. If I absorb kinetic energy from the area, your bullet has just given me enough force to shatter you.4. NO! I freaking hate this response, because all it is trying to cover up how poor the story really is. Hey, I get a kick out the series, but this is a glaring serious plot hole. The whole reason the stakes are high is because the magic world assumes that unless Harry stops volde the muggles wouldn't stand a chance... Truth of the matter is, and JK Rowling said so herself, that in a straight up war with the magical realm the muggles would win. We have vastly superior technology and armor, not to mention numbers.
Time travel : Temporal Science also doesn't work in normal physics : You only saw the one iteration where it succeeded - how do you know there wasn't another 15 or so times where they tried what you were saying and it failed, so they had to go back?The only reason, the only GOOD reason why they didn't shoot Voldemort is because Harry just plain didn't think of doing it... and seeing as how both he and hermione both came from the muggle world and never once even lampshaded it I see is a major flaw in the whole series.
Harry's meeting with Neville is not one of love and friendship, that's a pact of vengeance, both to avenge their parents. The trio of Harry, Ron and Hermione break up many times but what always drives them forward is their antagonism/hate for Voldemort.SnakeoilSage said:Harry's love for his friends is what drives him. When he's facing Voldemort in battle, he's able to hold his own against a vastly superior wizard because he fights for people he cares about, and isn't afraid of dying to protect them. Rowling establishes those kinds of emotions as having power.Treblaine said:How does Harry's exceptional love for his friends help vanquish Voldemort than if he had an entirely functional relationship with his companions? Neville killed the final Horcrux and he had an impersonal relationship with Harry.
As for Neville, he was touched more by Harry's goodness than you think. It's barely touched on in the movies, but the books has Neville joining the Defense Association, gaining friends and confidence from their support. He and Harry meet in the hospital in The Order of the Phoenix, when Neville is visiting his mind-broken parents, and the two make a personal vow, as "orphans" of Voldemort and his evil, to make their parents proud. That strength drives Neville to hold his own against a Snape-run Hogwarts and, when he sees Harry has sacrificed all against Voldemort, he finds the courage to break Voldemort's paralysis, draw Griffyndor's sword from the Sorting Hat, and slay Nagini.
The "somehow" you mention is love. Lily was willing to die defending her son, and when Voldemort killed her, her sacrifice created a powerful ward on Harry. When Voldemort turned his killing curse on Harry, that ward repelled the magic that destroyed Voldemort's body. Even Voldemort mentions this, calling it "old magic" that he didn't consider when he tried to kill Harry, and goes so far to use Harry's blood to rebuild his new body thinking that it would circumvent the protection her love provided (and it did, to a small extent).Harry survived as a baby because his mother acted as a human shield... magically. Somehow this Killing Curse killed both her AND reversed it back on Voldemort to kill him, and the final part of his Horcrux go into Harry. Actually, this sacrifice-spell makes the killing-curse a hugely impractical mode of killing. Of all the ways you could kill someone, be it with a spear, crossbow, gun, flamethrower, chainsaw... what could they possibly do to make such an attack kill themselves but ALSO kill the dealer? Short of a suicide-bomber's vest which kills everyone within a 20 meter radius.
Magic sometimes has an odd effect on technology built during or after the Industrial Revolution. This is most obvious when Arthur Weasley's car spontaneously "goes feral" and drives itself off into the woods, where it presumably remained.And killing curse is apparently the only spell which is SPECIFICALLY designed to kill. The question shouldn't be why don't they shoot Voldemort but rather why doesn't Voldemort use a gun himself!?!? Guns WITH magic would be a HIGHLY effective combination. Like combining laser guidance systems with high-explosive air-dropped bombs, to give the Laser Guided Bomb that can deliver several tons of high explosives right through a ventilation shaft... or some "Force" guide a proton torpedo down a thermal exhaust port:
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For that matter... why would Voldemort, an insane wizard-supremacist, even consider touching a "filthy muggle" artifact? They very idea would make his skin crawl, and to borrow from your own example "the ability to destroy a planet is insignificant, next to the power of the Force."
Yes, they do. I believe Rowling herself admitted as much. Magic exists outside of physical laws, so it stands to reason that it can be easily convoluted.All the magic in Harry Potter just seems so arbitrary and open to abuse it's meaningless even within a work of fiction. It's not like a new set of rules, it's rules change all the time.
In the Elder Wand's case it's an example of Voldemort's evil destroying himself. He seeks it out, believing it would prove more powerful than Harry's wand (since his own wand is it's "equal" and when he used Malfoy's wand, it blew up), never imagining that it was Harry's mindset: his courage and willingness to fight and die for his friends, that was making Harry the "better man" in this duels. Voldemort can't even conceive of love so he just kept seeking "stronger" wands, believing that the Elder Wand, as the strongest, would turn the tied.And the Elder Wand thing. That's not love, that's providence. Or in this case where we know it is a book, plot contrivance. JK Rowling conveniently made the random events of wands exchanging hands means the Elder Wand was Harry's and then introduce the element of obedience in wands so refuse to cast a Killing Curse on the owner... even though it did so minutes earlier, where Harry was again saved by convenience beyond his plan or will, did the wand "know" that?
I admit, how it switched hands is very convoluted, but I would imagine it understood what was happening as Voldemort cast the killing curse on Harry: first it sensed its true target was the fragment of Voldemort's soul inside Harry, and second it knew it was being used against its master. Ollivander suggests that wands can choose their allegiances, and the wand doubtless felt that Harry was the more worthy wielder.
I won't say it's not convoluted, but this is how the books play out.
Larceny, betrayal, and ignorance seem to have a lot to do with the absence of love, however, don't they? Voldemort stole, Voldemort betrayed, Voldemort refused to consider the power of love in Harry, and it cost him dearly.This has nothing to do with love and compassion. This has to do with Harry stealing Draco's wand after he betrayed Dumbledor and Voldemort not understanding the rules of magic that Rowling is clearly making up as she goes along. So larceny on top of betrayal depending on ignorance...
Obviously he set out to kill Harry as a matter of practicality: we can't have a boy destined to destroy me lurking about. He read his Evil Overlord List. But as Voldemort's efforts continued to fail and backfire, it quickly turned to hate, with a little fear and desperation mixed in.PS: first you say Voldemort is motivated to kill Harry by hatred. Then suddenly you say he is motivated by practicality, that he thinks he must do it to survive. Which is it? Is it both? It's not unreasonable to hate someone that is going to cost you your life, even if a delusional opinion that makes him insane, not evil. Insane to kill a baby at a time when it clearly posed no threat nor ability to even indicate threat.
Think of it this way: you're playing a multi-player game, and someone kills you. Fair enough. But then you spawn in, and he kills you again. Now you've got a grudge to settle. You seek him out, hoping to get even, but in the ensuing battle he kills you a THIRD time. You start actively hunting him, intent to make him pay. You start making mistakes; maybe you let your teammates die so you can chase this guy around the map, maybe you leave yourself open to being killed by your new enemy's own teammates. But it goes on and on and you can't land a single kill, and even worse, he kills you a few more times. Tell me you wouldn't start getting pissed off as this point.
Again, the "Love = individuals more destructively powerful" idea. That's a conflict in terms.The "somehow the spell is reversed" you mention is love.
Well, Voldemort is already a hypocrite and I thought he wanted power above all else. Why have we never seen any "stop bullet forcefield" magic? Indicates these isn't such a spell.why would Voldemort, an insane wizard-supremacist, even consider touching a "filthy muggle" artifact?
That is precisely my point. The planet-destroying Death Star was destroyed by a force-guided bomb! Hitting an impossible target."the ability to destroy a planet is insignificant, next to the power of the Force."
It's no excuse to say "outside physical laws". You can't get to the final chapter of the final book of such a long series and STILL be changing the rules. You need to lay the ground rules and STICK TO THEM otherwise there is no tension as you know some solution can always be concocted from thin air.I believe Rowling herself admitted as much. Magic exists outside of physical laws, so it stands to reason that it can be easily convoluted.
That's a double standard. Dumbledor gets the Elder Wand and he's good, but Voldemort is bad for getting it. I'm sorry, but are wands so reliable as to make decisions of good and evil that the average Witch/Wizard aren't able to decide on, with so many being loyal to Voldemort.In the Elder Wand's case it's an example of Voldemort's evil destroying himself. He seeks it out... that was making Harry the "better man" in this duels.
SO you admit, Love had nothing to do with Voldemort losing the final duel.Larceny, betrayal, and ignorance seem to have a lot to do with the absence of love, however, don't they? Voldemort stole, Voldemort betrayed, Voldemort refused to consider the power of love in Harry, and it cost him dearly.
Sorry, this is "evil"? To want retribution on those who REPEATEDLY wronged you? Harry wants THE SAME! Vengeance for the death of his family. By this standard Harry and Voldemort are no different, no wand could make any moral decision to "reverse" (rather than nullify) a killing curse based on that.Obviously he set out to kill Harry as a matter of practicality... he kills you a THIRD time. You start actively hunting him, intent to make him pay.
Goddamn ninjas. Stealing mah posts everytimeclaymoreguy18 said:This is why I like the Dresden files better. It takes into account the "normal" point of view. Nothing against harry potter though I just think Dresden is way better.
Yeah, a wand that only you can use, only if you have "the right blood", after years of training before you can do ANYTHING with it, and requires tongue-twisting incantations with all but very few being very weak in capability. That and it's not really clear how powerful and flexible it is.mooncalf said:Wand ≥ Gun.
Quite simple really.
Rowling belabors the "wizarding world" as so uninterested in "muggle" technologies that they can't even get the names right, so why carry a firearm when they're already issued one and all with a lightweight supernatural swiss army knife of does-practically-everything which requires no ammunition?