They need "middle" conversation options

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LWS666

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Nov 5, 2009
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in mass effect 2 thre's a paragon option, a renegade option a neutral option that everyone can use.

what if you had a bar, and it starts in neutral and it moves from side to side depending on your actions, and there were neutral options only for those who do a bit of both? meaning you could do some renegade and some paragon and still get conversation options.

what do you think? is this a good idea? pointless? something else? discuss.
 

TheNumber1Zero

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Jul 23, 2009
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Neutral options?

Like sitting in the corner eating cheetos while everyone else starts yelling at each-other?

I like it.
 

Woodsey

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Aug 9, 2009
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What?

They have that already - if you've got the paragon/renegade meters equivalent to each other, you're morally grey. The further apart they are, the less morally neutral.
 

Shock and Awe

Winter is Coming
Sep 6, 2008
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Bioware intentionally axed that idea, they didn't want a few good actions to make the renegade past magically go away, or vise versa.
 

LWS666

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Nov 5, 2009
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Woodsey said:
What?

They have that already - if you've got the paragon/renegade meters equivalent to each other, you're morally grey. The further apart they are, the less morally neutral.
yes, but there's no special options for that. only for achieving a certain amount of paragon/renegade points. the neutral options are always there even if you have max points.
 

Wolfram23

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Mar 23, 2004
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It would be neat if the early part of the game it's pretty clear cut - good, neutral, bad options. Then depending on your choices later on if you choose good ones, it will open up different "good" options and mostly remove all "bad" ones and vise-versa.
 

RatRace123

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Dec 1, 2009
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Bioware felt that past badass options should not be negated by past selfless professional ones. I agree with them on this, it makes it more realistic. Unlike KotOR where you could've murdered everyone you've met, and then when you got to a specific point in the game where you could repent and embrace the light side... the galaxy at large forgot what a relatively evil bastard you were.
 

Danny Ocean

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Jun 28, 2008
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Wolfram01 said:
It would be neat if the early part of the game it's pretty clear cut - good, neutral, bad options. Then depending on your choices later on if you choose good ones, it will open up different "good" options and mostly remove all "bad" ones and vise-versa.
That's basically what happens. You earn good points for performing good conversation options in a cyclic manner. As you get more points more good conversation options open up. The problem is that, really, you need to pick one path and stick to it if you want to unlock the highest-level choices and avoid some of the bad things that could happen without enough investment in either path.
 

reg42

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Mar 18, 2009
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I think I know what you mean... though you could have worded it a bit better.
Having a middle option would kind of defeat the point.
 

Ace of Spades

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Jul 12, 2008
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Woodsey said:
What?

They have that already - if you've got the paragon/renegade meters equivalent to each other, you're morally grey. The further apart they are, the less morally neutral.
Though it would be nice if you had a bonus options in dialogue comparable to the ones you gain access to if you pick paragon or renegade, so moral choices actually become choices.
 

Woodsey

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Aug 9, 2009
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Ace of Spades said:
Woodsey said:
What?

They have that already - if you've got the paragon/renegade meters equivalent to each other, you're morally grey. The further apart they are, the less morally neutral.
Though it would be nice if you had a bonus options in dialogue comparable to the ones you gain access to if you pick paragon or renegade, so moral choices actually become choices.
I still don't get it; there are neutral responses during conversations and there is representation of a morally neutral viewpoint on the paragon/renegade scale.
 
Jan 11, 2009
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I think he means like the "Charm" and "Intimidate" options let you get things you want, but give you paragon/renegade points.

If so, yes it would be quite a good idea to have a neutral option similar to this but you have to wonder what bonus you would get at shops.
 

Sir Kemper

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Jan 21, 2010
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TheNumber1Zero said:
Neutral options?

Like sitting in the corner eating cheetos while everyone else starts yelling at each-other?

I like it.
Sounds good, i mean, it's what i useually do in arguments!
 

Ace of Spades

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Jul 12, 2008
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Woodsey said:
Ace of Spades said:
Woodsey said:
What?

They have that already - if you've got the paragon/renegade meters equivalent to each other, you're morally grey. The further apart they are, the less morally neutral.
Though it would be nice if you had a bonus options in dialogue comparable to the ones you gain access to if you pick paragon or renegade, so moral choices actually become choices.
I still don't get it; there are neutral responses during conversations and there is representation of a morally neutral viewpoint on the paragon/renegade scale.
There is, but occasionally you get extra dialogue options based on your alignment, allowing you to increase your rewards, or get out of a mission entirely, and the higher level options require more points put into either one to choose, so if you do a neutral game, you don't fill up either meter all the way, cutting you off from certain dialogue options. This could be fixed if there were unlockable dialogue options that require a certain number of both renegade and paragon points.
 

Spacewolf

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May 21, 2008
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i think they need more complex choices rather than such clear cut ones that affect the game rather than some bar
 

Woodsey

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Ace of Spades said:
Woodsey said:
Ace of Spades said:
Woodsey said:
What?

They have that already - if you've got the paragon/renegade meters equivalent to each other, you're morally grey. The further apart they are, the less morally neutral.
Though it would be nice if you had a bonus options in dialogue comparable to the ones you gain access to if you pick paragon or renegade, so moral choices actually become choices.
I still don't get it; there are neutral responses during conversations and there is representation of a morally neutral viewpoint on the paragon/renegade scale.
There is, but occasionally you get extra dialogue options based on your alignment, allowing you to increase your rewards, or get out of a mission entirely, and the higher level options require more points put into either one to choose, so if you do a neutral game, you don't fill up either meter all the way, cutting you off from certain dialogue options. This could be fixed if there were unlockable dialogue options that require a certain number of both renegade and paragon points.
Yes, but those situations arise when you need to push someone through intimidating or charming them - you can't do anything if someone's answered neutral the entire game, and even then they'll still have points through do or don't choices that they've had to make.

You can try and persuade a person to do something by refining your neutralness on them.
 

Axeli

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Jun 16, 2004
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Woodsey said:
Ace of Spades said:
Woodsey said:
Ace of Spades said:
Woodsey said:
What?

They have that already - if you've got the paragon/renegade meters equivalent to each other, you're morally grey. The further apart they are, the less morally neutral.
Though it would be nice if you had a bonus options in dialogue comparable to the ones you gain access to if you pick paragon or renegade, so moral choices actually become choices.
I still don't get it; there are neutral responses during conversations and there is representation of a morally neutral viewpoint on the paragon/renegade scale.
There is, but occasionally you get extra dialogue options based on your alignment, allowing you to increase your rewards, or get out of a mission entirely, and the higher level options require more points put into either one to choose, so if you do a neutral game, you don't fill up either meter all the way, cutting you off from certain dialogue options. This could be fixed if there were unlockable dialogue options that require a certain number of both renegade and paragon points.
Yes, but those situations arise when you need to push someone through intimidating or charming them - you can't do anything if someone's answered neutral the entire game, and even then they'll still have points through do or don't choices that they've had to make.

You can try and persuade a person to do something by refining your neutralness on them.
It's still stupid, as the system punishes for neutrality... And for picking the preferred options.

Instead of actually picking the options I like the best, I bounce around between the paragon and renegade ones like bipolar multiple-personality identity problem ridden puppy, just so that I can get as many Paragon/Renegade as is needed to not screw up key points of the plot.

And how does it make sense that practicing diplomatic neutrality and not being an extreme personality actually makes you worse at solving things peacefully? Take the scenes with Jack and Miranda or Tali and Legion for example - if you have been neutral and diplomatic the whole game, you probably aren't capable of actually solving the situation diplomatically.
That makes no sense - I mean I can see how you might not be able to do it the Renegade way (basically telling everyone to shut the fuck up and stay in line on your ship) but I honestly don't see how the Paragon option is unusable for a neutral Shepard.

I mean at least the Tali/Legion scene with Paragon option is all about making both see the other side of things - something you'd think a person who rarely takes an extreme stance either way would point out.
 

Lullabye

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Oct 23, 2008
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Amnestic said:
Stop being a pussy, pick a side.
Pussy? Last time I picked the "meh" option I had to fight off not only the bad guys, but the good guys as well! Good guys that I personally power leveled!
"Apathy means death!"-KOTOR

I love being neutral. It literally means less responsibility in games(usually). It's similar to being evil, but less caring about what happens.
This does end up putting me in odd situations in gamed like Heavy Rain(I played the demo, and just let me day, I hate QTE's a little less.)