Thief's Possible Saving Grace!

[josemlopes]

and dont even start that a game like thief wouldnt sell well today since rise of the triad, Shadow warrior,brutal doom and others have shown that this claim is complete bullcrap.

Actually those games didnt sell that much, they just had a budget that was right for the type of game that they made. The problem with Thief and Hitman Absolution is that they are trying to make AAA games out of what are niche games and the things that they use to atract the mainstream audience is probably what makes the budget skyrocket in the first place (over blown marketing to make sure that people that werent aware of the franchise are now, a lot of dialog and cutscenes because of that movie experience that the mainstream likes so much, big set pieces that are very expensive to make, working on features that are most of the times disabled by the fans of the series to help newcomers that want to play the game like if it was something entirely different from the rest of the series).

The Dark Mod kept it simple and it already is better then Thief (the reboot at least), stealth is a niche genre and in no fucking way should they try to change it up for the purpose of selling more copies if it means that at the end of the day it really needs to sell more copies to make profit.

By trying to be a game for everyone it ends up being a game for no one, very few game can be for everyone and make profit and anyone with a brain could see that a niche game series certainly wouldnt be one of those (all I can think up are The Sims and Minecraft).

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

By trying to be a game for everyone it ends up being a game for no one, very few game can be for everyone and make profit and anyone with a brain could see that a niche game series certainly wouldnt be one of those (all I can think up are The Sims and Minecraft).

However, the stealth genre has a pretty large following, especially those games that mix up stealth with the chance to go a more aggressive route. Metal Gear Solid (starting with 3), Dishonored and Deus Ex: Human Revolution are all stealth games at heart, but have solid action elements and allows for less subtle, more aggressive play styles and all three are considered successful both commercially and by fans.

There's nothing really wrong with that unless you are a stealth genre purist, at which point your contention is no longer with the game itself but with the gaming industry no longer catering to your very specific desires.

 

[josemlopes]

By trying to be a game for everyone it ends up being a game for no one, very few game can be for everyone and make profit and anyone with a brain could see that a niche game series certainly wouldnt be one of those (all I can think up are The Sims and Minecraft).

However, the stealth genre has a pretty large following, especially those games that mix up stealth with the chance to go a more aggressive route. Metal Gear Solid (starting with 3), Dishonored and Deus Ex: Human Revolution are all stealth games at heart, but have solid action elements and allows for less subtle, more aggressive play styles and all three are considered successful both commercially and by fans.

There's nothing really wrong with that unless you are a stealth genre purist, at which point your contention is no longer with the game itself but with the gaming industry no longer catering to your very specific desires.

But thats the thing, Thief and Hitman Absolution are reboot/sequel to series that are basicly all about stealth (and with that had a niche audience). DE:HR isnt even stealth, it has a lot more with a tipical RPG set in the future.

Dishonored did its own thing and thats fine, it had focus and knew what it was supposed to be, the same with Metal Gear, this Thief and Hitman Abs simply tried to please both sides without being anything in the end instead of keeping the focused direction that the previous games had for the purpose of trying to appeal to more people.

Its like if the next Arma tried to be the next Call of Duty, having all those actions moments and big action stars while at the same time trying to keep the same level of simulation that it has.

Thief even had that thing during a preview build where they awarded XP for killing enemies instead of stealing things, that right there showed the huge lack of notion of what the game was trying to be, is it about stealing things or assassinate people? Am I supposed to enter in conflicts with the enemy? Everything about the game is telling me no but its mechanics do seem to point out that killing is the right way.

In Hitman Abs the default suit is the best suit because of how retarded the disguise mechanics are, in a game series about blending with the crowd it sure as hell missed the point.

 

[tokae]

I cant play this reboot anymore. Finished 3 chapters and cant stomach any more of this mess. It plays like Assassins Creed light instead of Thief. The story is a terrible so is gameplay with loading 30 seconds of loading for every 90 seconds of gameplay.

Plays like like AC-light you say? sure doesn't look like it in gameplay videos, but okay I'll take your word for it I guess.
Story shambles? Eh, kinda expected though wouldn't you say? I mean, it's Thief after all.
Oh, loading issues? Really? Not according to people with working press-releases..
OOOOH! It's because you're playing a broken, half-cracked, pirate version... Soo, yeah. You have no right what so ever to complain about the game as if you had paid for it, none whatsoever.

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

But thats the thing, Thief and Hitman Absolution are reboot/sequel to series that are basicly all about stealth (and with that had a niche audience). DE:HR isnt even stealth, it has a lot more with a tipical RPG set in the future.

The path for optimal rewards in DE:HR is to do a ghost run (the 750 extra EXP for each section awarded for not being seen and not triggering alarms far outstrips the exp you get for killing everyone in open assault, not to mention that alternative sneaking routes tend to give out extra exp). On top of that there are about twice the amount of stealth augs compared to combat augs and the scarcity of ammunition makes open combat a less viable route than sneaking. DE:HR clearly allows for a more guns blazing approach, but it is also one that is less rewarded by the game game than sneaking is.

You should also note that Hitman was moving more towards action ever since Contracts, with Blood Money pretty much allowing for killing spree-style mission clearing. All the Hitman games also tended to feature finale mission that were pretty much only shooting galleries. Codename 47 and Blood Money are particularly notorious for this. As someone who recent replayed Absolution I can also tell you that your analysis of Absolution is bullshit. On any of the "professional" difficulties, that game is nigh unbeatable with a combat approach and much time will be spent figuring out how to remain out of sight since you can't just focus-hide your way past enemies (since focus doesn't refill).

As for the Thief reboot, every review I've read yet seems to suggest that going balls-to-the-wall and trying to attack guards head on is a good way to see the game over screen. In fact, the criticism against it seems more to be about the fact that it is inconsistent, a bit too railroaded and contains some unnecessary QTE sections, with praise going to the great stealth mechanics and the "nerve" of the stealth game play. So yeah, it definitely seems to be a stealth game at its' core, albeit one that allows for the occasional departure from stealth.

 

[ResonanceGames]

Well apparently the game is/was released today in America. Anybody can confirm Thief needs, in fact, to be saved in the first place?

Well...yes and no. The fact of the matter is, there is no amount of modding that could be done to this game to make it "more like" the old games. Between the loading zones and the contextual controls, the game would need almost a complete redesign. Not to mention the stealth mechanics themselves, which are very different. If you want more old school Thief (and god dammit, I do) stick to the Dark Mod.

This game overall suffers from comparison with the previous games in almost every way I can think of: plot, characters, mechanics, even A.I.

However, as a huge fan of first person sneakers in general, I'm still having enough fun to easily justify the $33 I spent on it. The game has a lot of problems, and the controls are abysmal, but it is not completely without charm. The re-imagined City feels like stepping into an Edgar Allan Poe story, and some of the areas are pretty well designed (others are NOT). YMMV.

 

[The Artificially Prolonged]

From what I've seen and read about the new Thief it seems like it has the potential to be a truly good or even great game that is let down by some other poor decisions. The game looks amazing, with some good level design in places and good focus on stealth by removing sword play. Plus the modular difficulty is something more games should really look into for providing a balance between catering to accessible and challenge players and everyone in between for that matter. Although the positives are let down by contextual jumping, climbing and ropes arrows which look quite limiting, especially since you have large hubs to explore. Plus the AI appears quite spotty which is shame because for me the appeal of stealth games is the feeling of outsmarting the enemies, hard to feel like that when guards seem to have blinker vision.

I don't know how moddable this new Thief game will turn out to be. Speaking as a fan of the Thief series I hope modders can make some improvements, if not though I've still got the original trilogy and The Dark Mod.

That said I have to say after being originally excited for a new Thief, then wishing it never sees the light of day after the awful previews, I have to say Eidos Montreal have pulled something decent from the mess. I'll probably now pick this game up at some point, now that it appears it won't be the Thief equivalent of Invisible War. Although I still think the lack of taffers is inexcusable

 

[sageoftruth]

Not worth the bother to fix that mess. None of the old factions, a different garret and as some friends reported, a completely braindead AI and the new thief's ability to crush every encounter like a tank.

Just play the old games: the original, the sequel and even #3 isn't all bad.

There is a Classic settings feature that allows you to up the difficulty and switch of pretty much everything. Crutches like waypoint, navigation, interaction prompts to name a few. That should make it much more interesting.

EDIT: I also like the 'Iron Man' option which will never touch =P, if you get killed its permanent..if you get seen you die.

That last one sounds a bit extreme. One thing I loved about the Thief games, aside from the heavy emphasis on being ghost-like, was that I could be forgiven for occasionally being spotted. Unlike games like Splinter Cell, where you're gunned down the moment a guard sees you, in Thief you had a chance to run away, and running away was usually pretty fun. I love the satisfaction of running, jumping obstacles, and then slipping into the shadows and watching as the frustrated guard tries to find me. It made also it much easier to play without having to quicksave all the time.

 

[teh_gunslinger]

I never needed mods to love original 'Thief' (all of them), so I don't see why people (not publisher) should bear the burden of enriching the game if the developers/publishers didn't do sufficient work to make the game enticing at the first place (from my perspective, of course).

TB's WTF on this game actually fortified my decision not to buy it until it is on 75% sale or something.
I also liked both DmC and Tomb Raider reboots a lot but this Thief just looks like Deus Ex: HR + Tomb Raider hybrid with badly-written, badly voiced Garret knockoff, not a 'Thief' game (from my perspective). Although I greatly welcome the absence of experience for headshots, the absence of free jumping and takedowns kill this goodwill entirely.

Dishonored or original 'Thieves' are my game plan for nearest future.

You should give The Dark Mod a spin. It's brilliant. And standalone these days.

The William Steele missions are splendid!

 

[MrHide-Patten]

From the reviews it seems to be hitting the 'ho-hum' pretty hard. If I wanted to play a shoddy Assassin's Creed, I'll just play Assassin's Creed, or Dishonored.

It's just one of those games playing off the name and not capitalizing on what made the originals good in favor of swanky graphics and eye liner, and I say that as a 3D Artist.

Frankly this generation is very sad indeed, that the game that's getting the most use out of my PS4 is a free to play game that came out for the PC yonks ago and is still in BETA. If Sucker Punch fail me with Second Son (and I'm getting a terrible feeling about it) consider me officially jaded towards modern gaming. Fuck I'll just go back to drawing tits on things.

 

[TheSteeleStrap]

I think it's worth looking into because it looks good...

 

[Spushkin]

I never played the original Thief games due to not having a proper PC back in the day, for which I am very sorry.

I did, however, get a PS4 review version which I played for the last couple of days. I'd link a review, but it wouldn't do much good to you, since it is in Serbian

Now, I'm pretty sure that I'm not allowed to talk about it anywhere else due to the NDA, however, I can say that as a newcomer in the world of Thief I enjoyed it and I think the best part is the freedom of choice as to how to play it, and the tinkering you can do. The whole "customize your experience" might not be everyone's cup of tea, but it's there and kudoz to the developers for not dumbing it down.