Thinking about your birth junk

[Relish in Chaos]

So yeah, tell me if I'm being a dick with what I'm saying, because the reason I wanted to do this topic is it was something I was thinking about after a couple of lessons in Psychology about gender.

Why are some transgender folk fine with their birth genitalia, while others (I don't know if they're a majority in that group, but it seems like it) aren't? Would the ones wanting sex reassignment surgery, perhaps, be happy remaining with their birth genitalia if society didn't label penises and vaginas as male and female genitalia respectively (as that's not the case for individuals with androgen insensitivity syndrome, congenital adrenal hyperplasia, and a host of other intersex conditions that may present with ambiguous genitalia)?

Again, this is just me being curious, not wishing to pass judgement or anything like that. Just stuff I think about.

 

[sky14kemea]

I think that's definitely a unique thing from person to person. Everyone has a different level of comfort with their body as it is, so it's hard to find any set reasons for why some transgender people are okay with their birth genitalia.

It could be because they're used to it by now. Or that they know it doesn't actually define their gender, so they're willing to live with it. It could be because they're scared/can't afford the surgery or hormones.

I can't really speak for any transgender people, but I am gender fluid. So I do tend to lean more towards being male or female on certain days. I'm not comfortable with my birth "bits", but I don't see myself ever having surgery or hormones because it doesn't affect my day to day life that much. Basically, even though I'm not fully happy with my body, I know that I probably won't be anyway for a long time, so I might as well focus on things that I consider more important to me right now.

Plus I wouldn't want to take any spots on the waiting list away from any people that genuinely need the hormones and treatment in order to actually feel more like themselves.

[sub][sub]I may have rambled off topic here...[/sub][/sub]

 

[Relish in Chaos]

Yeah, that is pretty much the answer I expected - that it's up to the individual for any variety of reasons. Some may even embrace that aspect of themselves.

I've always found it kind of sadly interesting that the person who apparently popularised the modern distinction between gender and sex (although, of course, psychologists have since tweaked with and amended said definition because of what I'll mention next), Dr. John Money, was the same person who basically passed off the case of David Reimer as "a success".

But yeah, I guess even some cisgender (non-transgender) people are unhappy with their body, and while some choose to get plastic surgery and whatnot to increase their level of contentment (which is fine), some don't and just get through each day in their own way. Neither is better or worse than the other.

 

[Angelowl]

Eh, I do not particularly care about my birth genitalia either way. But I really would like to have a vagina. This seem to be the general views amongst trans women my age. Those who are comfortable enough to use their birth genitalia actually have something to lose.

The whole operation ordeal is a risk/reward assesment. I have little to lose and pretty decent circumstances so I intend to do it. Others make their own decisions and I am not going to judge. The hormones are way more important than the operation for emotional well being either way. A lot of the operations in the west are due to it being mandated by the state to be recognized as one's identifued gender.

 

[Vault101]

Why are some transgender folk fine with their birth genitalia, while others (I don't know if they're a majority in that group, but it seems like it) aren't? Would the ones wanting sex reassignment surgery, perhaps, be happy remaining with their birth genitalia if society didn't label penises and vaginas as male and female genitalia respectively (as that's not the case for individuals with androgen insensitivity syndrome, congenital adrenal hyperplasia, and a host of other intersex conditions that may present with ambiguous genitalia)?
.

because people are different and will feel differently about some things

some trans people don't feel the *need* to have surgery or don't think that surgery will bring them closer to a body they feel comfortable in, some do [footnote/]perhaps they would feel different if we had the ability to *do* more things or do them differently[/footnote]

there was a really nice chapter on this in the book "your nearest exit might be behind you" if youre interested in what its like to be trans/gay I'd recommend it

 

[Thaluikhain]

Is this not true of cisgender people as well? Some are happy with their bodies, including genitals, and some aren't?

Would seem to follow that this would be true of trans folk as well.

 

[Lieju]

Yeah, depends on a person, really.
Also the matter of gender isn't black-and-white.

I was unsure at one point if I was transman, since it's not like I feel like a female and would prefer not to look like one.

But I don't really have any major desire to be male either. (If I could be male for a while just to try it I'd love to, because at least then I'd know how I'd feel about it.)

But I believe how strong your gender-identity is varies from person to person, no matter if it matches with your body or not. And how important it is as well.

 

[CymbaIine]

Don't prod and ask personal questions, because really, its kind of irrelevant to how exactly they expereince gender dysphoria. Thats prettty much rule #2 when it comes to talking to trans people.

It's a rule when talking to anybody. Surely there is only one rule when talking to trans people?

 

[Lieju]

Don't prod and ask personal questions, because really, its kind of irrelevant to how exactly they expereince gender dysphoria. Thats prettty much rule #2 when it comes to talking to trans people.

It's a rule when talking to anybody. Surely there is only one rule when talking to trans people?

Yeah, but a lot of people don't think that way.
If you differ from the norm people feel entitled to asking you inappropriate questions.

I mean, how often will a cisperson be put on the spot of explaining why they are cis and asked questions about their gender-identity?

 

[CymbaIine]

Don't prod and ask personal questions, because really, its kind of irrelevant to how exactly they expereince gender dysphoria. Thats prettty much rule #2 when it comes to talking to trans people.

It's a rule when talking to anybody. Surely there is only one rule when talking to trans people?

Yes, but see, because I'm an insensitive, entitled jerk, I get to ask everybody who isn't like me an unending barrage of extremely invasive questions, so its like, you know, totally fine to do all of that! Now, could you answer a few questions for me? What is your social security number, your deepest fear, your favourite flavour of ice cream, the colour of your underwear, and how many times in a day you use the restroom? Remember, if you don't let me dehumanize you and turn you into a life lesson for my children so I can get smug satisfication of feeling like a good person when I'm really not, I get to tell everybody that you're an asshole and don't deserve the basic rights that everybody else gets.

One person like that is already more people like that than there should be, but there's just so many people with that mindset of treating trans people, it gets really grating over the long run. I mean, have you been stopped by the drive thru window attendent at McDonalds' so that they can prod you with questions and humiliate you in front of their co-workers? It should go without saying, but most people are twats and need to be told that the basic rules of discussion etiquette apply to everybody, not "everybody who is like me". I've posted this image here before, and I'll keep doing it until its no longer the expectation.

Spoiler

I'd actually post a strip from another comic here too, but I can't seem to access the site today for some reason. Hope it didn't go down, I really liked it

Fucking bizarre, how does anybody excuse that behaviour? That "education/understanding" stuff is the most underhand bullshit I have ever heard.

 

[MoltenSilver]

Spoiler

Fucking bizarre, how does anybody excuse that behaviour? That "education/understanding" stuff is the most underhand bullshit I have ever heard.

A child doesn't know any better, so I don't get upset with them, and a teenager with such questions often have poor impulse control as well as extreme insecurities, so I typically pardon teenagers for prodding as well, but at a certain age you've got to realize that other people have their own lives and you don't have any right to disrupt it because of your curiousity - especially so when most of the answers to questions you're asking could be found via a ten second google search. Again, webcomics.

That comic might just be the greatest thing I've ever read in my life. I have a disability and I am literally tempted to print that out and staple it to my clothes.

On topic: My guess would be it's a matter of either
1)some trans people feeling they absolutely need the genitals that align with their perceived gender so their body will be perfectly aligned with their perception. or:
2)some trans people would like to surgically reassign their genitals but feel the downsides (we are talking about surgery here and all the recovery needs and lead-up and such that entails, not to mention the financial cost if you don't have it covered) outweigh the gain they feel they'd get from it, or:
3)some who only care (or at least far more) about being perceived and treated as their desired gender rather than their body itself.

 

[Shoggoth2588]

I don't think it has anything to do with what society wants. If you don't feel right as you are but believe that reassignment would make you into the person you are meant to be, that's your choice. Society as a whole doesn't really factor into it unless you happen to be in a particularly hostile society where such things are concerned.

 

[Vault101]

Spoiler

oh god the last one...

particularly in regards to gay women...its like....you're not the target audience, why do we need to know?