This is How The World Ends...

[DkSeraph]

I'm going to start this by asking two things. First, I'd like anyone reading and responding to this to approach it academically. This thread isn't meant to pick at scabs of simmering Anti-American hatred. I'm not looking for a long series of soapboxes for either fervent hatred or blind patriotism to be presented and the rhetoric to commence. If you do, so be it, but you're missing my point entirely. Second, I'm legitimately curious; this isn't a trolling attempt or anything so base. I've given this much thought and would like some perspective.

That being said, heres the gist of my thread. Obviously, America is in some curious times. We're embroiled in a war that will be hard for us to extricate ourselves satisfactorily from. Our popularity in the world is pretty low. We currently are having some serious fiscal problems. To top that, the sitting President is making some truly Machiavellian moves: warrantless wiretaps, government seizures of private property, the abridgement of Geneva Convention rules (for right or wrong) based upon technicalities, and an ever-increasing inclusion and reliance on a ever-growing and increasingly unrepresentative goverment.

Now, I believe things like this are cyclic and -in time- issues like this will most likely resolve themselves. but, I'm also something of a fantasist and an aspiring novelist (damn my soul) and all these dire portents make something inside me salivate and chomp at the literary bit.

So, I ask you -you legion of avid gamers and intellectuals- were America to fall, how would you see it falling? Would we descend into a stark, gray Orwellian regime? Our vocabulary is being rewritten as we speak it, so it's not inconceivable... OR, would America the Apathetic instead demand amusement and fall slowly and gradually -a la the great Roman Empire- into decadence and dissolution. This could also be true, for Americans are slowly allowing their voices to be absorbed by the din of Reality TV and -as long as we are amused (ARE YOU NOT AMUSED?!?!)- we will let others rules us.. err.. for us...

So, tell me how you think America will expire? Or, alternately, tell me how you think we'd recover. Be thoughtful please. If you're going to say something like "Hillary/Obama/McCain/Huckabee/Ron Paul/Kermit/Darth Vader/Muah'dib will save us", please back that up with *why*.

 

[GenHellspawn]

The war will last so long that oil reserves will run dry, and you know what that means.

 

[propertyofcobra]

The US of A will become an Orwellian nightmare where no crime is allowed (but crime rates are still at an all-time high), and being "anti-american" (read: disagreeing) means you will conveniently disappear, as even the most grievous of government crimes are either ignored, lied about, glorified or explained away as necessary (water torture of "enemy combatants" is just the beginning. You'll see.).
The only political belief allowed is that America is right, and if you're not WITH us, you're AGAINST us and should be treated as the TERRORIST you are.
And even then, most people won't even notice any of it, they'll be too busy eating big macs and watching reality TV.
Slowly, crime rates will skyrocket because guns are almost a must to protect yourself from criminals and terrorists (the second term being anyone who disagrees with Big Uncle Sam), and personal disagreements will turn into violence, and the survivor will brand the victim a terrorist.
Slowly over time, thus, America will kill itself down to the point where only an extreme minority of people survive either the gross obesity or the gun violence or the totalitarian government.
At that point, the USA will be a third world country.

 

[tiredinnuendo]

... not with a bang but with a whimper.

- J

 

[DkSeraph]

The US of A will become an Orwellian nightmare where no crime is allowed (but crime rates are still at an all-time high), and being "anti-american" (read: disagreeing) means you will conveniently disappear, as even the most grievous of government crimes are either ignored, lied about, glorified or explained away as necessary (water torture of "enemy combatants" is just the beginning. You'll see.).
The only political belief allowed is that America is right, and if you're not WITH us, you're AGAINST us and should be treated as the TERRORIST you are.
And even then, most people won't even notice any of it, they'll be too busy eating big macs and watching reality TV.

So, essentially a mixture of apathy and despotism. I'd have to concur. I look at America right now as akin to a frog in a slowly warming pot. As long as we are comfortable and do not perceive ourselves as being in danger, we'll blindly allow ourselves to boil.

I was at the doctor's with my wife one day a month ago and started paging through an issue of Time. In the reader's comments section, a reader was responding negatively to a feature Time ran on Vladimir Putin's ability to bring stability to Russia, albeit at the expense of personal freedoms. The reader lamented a return to Stalinism and condemned Time for endorsing Putin's methods.

What struck me as odd is that I don't see us Americans as being too far from this. We accept the notion that the government is 'protecting us from terrorists' despite that we are eroding our constitutional laws to accomplish this. Now, let is be said that it's HIGHLY doubtful that tomorrow you or I will have the FBI wiretapping our homes or browsing our internet logs (unless we are already engaging in felonious activities), but once a door has been opened, even for very specific reasons, it's nearly impossible to close it.

Americans -much to my dismay- seem content to live in a passive accepting state. As long as our prosperity and comfort are assured, we really cease to care about higher level concerns. On the whole, we seem only truly concerned about what affects us. Granted, our demands might benefit others, but that's peripheral to our own self-centered desires. Truly -unless you are innately altruistic or charitable- espousing concern for the environment, health care, the economy, mortgage rates is usually just being concerned about how these things will affect you: will my life be impacted by all the bad weather? Will I have adequate healthcare? Will I keep my job or get a raise this year? Can I buy a new house?

While self-concern (or even filial concern) is natural and ultimately a hardwired instinctual requirement for survival, I think we stop caring once these concerns are met, on the whole. And I think that condition -of being increasingly self-absorbed- has allowed and will allow our leaders to increasing hobble the intentions of our society and marginalize the People by glorifying the Government.

Oh my god.. am I waxing Marxist all of a sudden? *sigh* I hope not.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

We'll be right back after this commercial!

 

[sammyfreak]

First of all, 1984 is a novel; dont let it scare you.

I dont think the downfall of america is emminent, the country will face and survive many challenges i believe. But i doubt any of us will live to se its end, unless by nuclear device (witch is extremely unlikly).

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

The next step will be nationwide acceptance of homosexuality. Now, I'm not going to get biblical, but does ANYONE remember the tales of Sodom and Gamora? They were just like Rome, and they fell aswell. That's how I see it comming.

....I'm sorry...are you seriously suggesting that accepting "The Gay" is going to kill America?

 

[SilentHunter7]

....I'm sorry...are you seriously suggesting that accepting "The Gay" is going to kill America?

Wow, that's just about the funniest thing I've read all week.

Back on topic; I see a revolution sometime in the not too distant future. The presidency practically has dictatorial powers (Military Commission's act), and nationwide trust of the people in power is at an all time low. Of course, the american people have gotten so apathetic, I cant see a rebellion getting enough support to succeed.

 

[KypFisto]

Back on topic; I see a revolution sometime in the not too distant future. The presidency practically has dictatorial powers (Military Commission's act), and nationwide trust of the people in power is at an all time low. Of course, the american people have gotten so apathetic, I cant see a rebellion getting enough support to succeed.

Now now, don't count out all the gun toting crazy white guys and the free thinking youngsters that might actually give two sh*ts about what's going on in the country these days...either they'll help change things for the better or move to Canada

 

[DkSeraph]

First of all, 1984 is a novel; dont let it scare you.

True, but I believe literature -at least in the past- has been a reflecting glass through which to view society. George Orwell certainly intended his books (specifically 1984 and Animal Farm) to hypothesize about a society he felt was forming. But then again, I'm biased: I want to believe that words have power.

I'm just concerned that we're evolving into a society that no longer in concerned about the power of words, unless they suit our own preconceptions. And when they don't, we seek to manipulate, edit or censor them. We change the meaning of words, the intentions of phrases to new things, thing they were never intended to mean. How long till we create words for the purpose of disguising truth. Orwell wrote about that too.

...Russia once owned half of Europe, now it's a shadow of its' former self...

Don't be so sure of that. Russian Democracy may have failed on the anvil of corruption, but sometimes terrible things are borne from the best of intentions. I'm not sure Russia is completely out of the 'world power' club yet....

 

[Geoffrey42]

The next step will be nationwide acceptance of homosexuality. Now, I'm not going to get biblical, but does ANYONE remember the tales of Sodom and Gamora? They were just like Rome, and they fell aswell. That's how I see it comming.

....I'm sorry...are you seriously suggesting that accepting "The Gay" is going to kill America?

Yes, yes... tolerance will be the downfall of our society. I can see it now...

I am familiar with the "tales" of Sodom and Gomorrah. But, any reason I should actually give them weight in my rational evaluation of the state of the US, or any idea how they're relevant to the decline of the Roman empire? I'm at a loss. Also, at what point does invoking Sodom and Gomorrah NOT get biblical?

...become overdependent on oil and the Saudi royals who control it...

Not that I think we aren't overly dependent on petroleum products as a society, or that I don't think Saudi Arabia has too much influence, but I just wanted to point out that both Mexico and Canada are larger suppliers of crude oil and petroleum to the US than Saudi Arabia is. (Depending on the month, Mexico is sometimes the same, or less, than Saudi Arabia; Canada is always more. See [a href=http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/company_level_imports/current/import.html]here.[/a])

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

That so far, that's one of the few remaining things Rome acheived that America has not yet.

And what have the Romans ever done for us? (Must not go into Python again)

EDIT: And BTW Gamora fell due to incest.

Are you now saying America has or hasn't achieved this? Just so I'm clear on what you're meaning; because I've read your post a few times and I really can't decipher it.

 

[Geoffrey42]

Didn't mean it in a Biblical way, mostly in such in an examplary fasion. The cities may not have exhisted at all, but what do myths and legends do if not make us think?

Well, they make me think that there were towns called Sodom and Gomorrah, and that something bad happened there (as simple as an earthquake, perhaps), but that neighboring towns rationalized away the possibility that they might be at risk by saying "[Deity of choice] must have hated them. That would never happen to us. We're good, [Deity of choice] loving/fearing people."

So, if your string of sentences surrounding homosexuality, Sodom&Gomorrah, Rome, and the US, weren't some sort of attempt to string them together logically, then what does homosexuality have to do with it in the first place?

On-topic: Personally, I find propertyofcobra's version pretty compelling/believable. Mostly because I've encountered way too many people that would be content in that world. "They came first for the _______..."

 

[Sylocat]

America is on the verge of collapse mostly because of the Ralph Nickleby effect, by which I mean that our economy is so driven by debt and credit that the money-lenders no longer have any money to lend because they've lent it all and nobody's given any of it back. Something along the lines of the stock market crash of 1929 is about to happen again, and this time the effect will be even worse since America is unwilling to elect any leader with common sense anymore.

Now, we are not, nor have we ever been, facing ANY problem that could not be easily solved were the American people willing to get off their lazy asses and work for change, but the American people are more concerned about who's going to get voted off American Idol next than they are about things that actually AFFECT their lives. I've long been marvelling at the astonishing lengths the public at large is willing to go to just to avoid having to think for themselves or make decisions, and retreating into the comfort of Big Macs and Reality TV is just one way to shirk that responsibility. The public wants quick, simple answers to all their problems, and they will only vote for a candidate who tells them what they want to hear.