Thoughts on Brutal Legend

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TPiddy

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Aug 28, 2009
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So, I've just recently finished up everything I wanted to do on Brutal Legend, and I must admit, I was fairly impressed by the game.

The quirky characters and excellent art design couple with a bangin' soundtrack and decent controls. Many of the 'units' in the RTS portions of the game were fun and the combination of being an RTS with the ability to get down and dirty with your troops or just drive the deuce around the battlefield gave it a unique feel.

I loved the solos and the guitar-based attacks, riding the animals, finding the jumps and they had some neat collection quests.

While I won't venture into the multiplayer at this point I thought this game was fun, unique and genuine, everything we've come to expect from Tim Schafer. So my question to you is, why does everyone think this was such a big disappointment?
 

Doc Theta Sigma

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Jan 5, 2009
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I completed it a while back. While it wasn't the best game ever made, I did enjoy it. The guitar based attacks were fun, it had a great cast of characters and a fairly good story. I found some of the RTS portions fiddly but I'd always played RTS's on PC before Brutal Legend.
 

reg42

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Mar 18, 2009
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I enjoyed the idea of it more than the actual game, but that's not to say it's bad. I haven't beaten it, but I plan to get back to it some day.
The soundtrack is fucking awesome though. It's probably my favourite part of the game, the soundtrack and the metal influences.
 

Meggiepants

Not a pigeon roost
Jan 19, 2010
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Okay, I'm working through this game now, it says I am 60% finished. And I love RTS games, and generally enjoy hack and slash, which Brutal Legend seems to be a melding of.

And you are right, the design, the characters, the soundtrack, the jokes... all of these things are awesome and totally Tim Schafer. The problem comes in the gameplay.

While I am enjoying the game for the most part, it is frustrating that the two parts, RTS and hack & slash, don't meld well. For instance, when I fly around in the air trying to determine where my troops need to rally, I need to land to play the solo that will place the rally flag. I shouldn't have to do this. Or when I am killing people up close and personal, I'll find myself suddenly surrounded by enemies without any aid, because I was too busy hack and slashing to notice my army of head bangers was decimated.

I'm not saying I haven't been enjoying the game, I have. But if you are someone who doesn't play RTS games regularly, I can see how you might have been disappointed by the game. An RTS on a console is difficult to pull off. There are so many different buttons you need to know and memorize. And Brutal Legend isn't just trying to be an RTS. I just don't think the controls were all that intuitive to people, which made the game overly complicated.

Personally, I think the game could have used a little simplification, then I think people would have loved it.
 

ironduke88

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Mar 20, 2010
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I only got to play the beginning couple of hours. What I played of it was very entertaining however the RTS really was very fiddly. However this was more than made up for by the fatastical characters and cast. I don't know whether the characters would have gotten boring after longer playing and the annoying controls would have started to frustrate me, so I won't comment on them. My mate said he thought the game was too short though...
 

The Real Sandman

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Oct 12, 2009
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While the story, characters, art direction, and the soundtrack were pretty cool, the gameplay bogged the whole experience down to mediocritiy. The axe combat felt clunky and unnatural, and the guitar attacks (while awesome) completely broke the game's difficulty. I didn't have a problem playing the RTS segments, but I didn't think it was the best idea to have them in the first place. Tell you what Double Fine, make the combat controls more natural, have more story missions that utilize The Deuce, and take the RTS segments and make them more like the siege battles from Viking Battle for Asgard(below), and I'd buy a Brutal Legend 2.

For best results:
Imagine vikings to actually be the characters from BL and play some Brocas Helm in the background.
 

Ranorak

Tamer of the Coffee mug!
Feb 17, 2010
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Found the game loads of fun.

Except for that bit where you have to drive around some beast to capture it while spewing fire.
That part was so annoying.
 

Sephychu

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Dec 13, 2009
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Fucking love that game. The only bit I didn't like was the dry ice caves. On Brütal difficulty, they're NAILS.

Funny, because a mate of mine found them easy, but the Sea of Black Tears impossible, which I found easy.
 

TPiddy

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Aug 28, 2009
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Yeah I didn't bother trying it on Brutal because I'm not that good at RTS's, but I had a bit of a tough time with some of the later battles, so I had to go back and earn some more upgrades. Getting the rally flag, call of the wild and summon solos really helped.

I suppose I didn't have as much difficulty with the controls as many people have, but I have to say it was one of the most refreshing experiences I've had in a long time. Varied gameplay FTW!
 

Altorin

Jack of No Trades
May 16, 2008
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Brutal Legend is the newest game from game designer Tim Schafer, maker of sleeper hits Grim Fandango and Psychonauts. It focuses on Eddie Riggs, a Heavy Metal Roadie who's swept away to a magical land where all of the mythology of heavy metal is fully realized. Along the way he must save his Metalhead companions, thwart the minions of Gothic Metal, and eradicate the demonic forces of the Tainted Coil.

Brutal Legend is primarily a real time strategy game, with a lot of driving segments, and a side-mission structure much like Assassin's Creed. The true nature of the game is probably a surprise to most people who haven't played it, as the game shows itself off as a hack and slash platformer game, but that really couldn't be further from the actuality of the game. Brutal Legends is an RTS. Playing the game like a Hack and Slash Platformer, particularly in the RTS segments is a good way to die - and it's not a platformer, as Eddie Riggs cannot jump, other then leaping tremendous heights into or out of his car, and flying in the RTS segments.

So that's out of the way, it's an RTS, but is it a good RTS? I'm not sure, I'm not a very good judge of RTS's, as I'm not very good at them, but one thing Brutal Legend suffers from is a lack of mouse controls, or a decent minimap. Instead, your Avatar (Eddie Riggs in the single player campaign, but there are two others - Diviculous and Drowned Ophelia (spoiler warning, woops)) has the ability to fly at ridiculous speeds. Selecting units for specific tasks can be difficult, mainly because it's done by holding down the Y button, and dragging a tiny reticle over the individual units you want to select. It's really clunky.

Speaking of Clunky, I'll get back to controlling your Avatar Directly in combat now. The actual fighting techniques that your character gets are awkward to use in the heat of battle, and mostly don't do very much. Where eddie shines is his ability to use magical solos (creating varied effects from creating a rally point to dropping a huge flaming lead zeppelin down on your enemies), and double teaming with your units. Each double team ability has its own uses, and almost all of them are used at some point during the game's single player campaign. These are all very powerful and quite useful, although some are situational.

The game has 3 factions, but only one campaign. Besides Eddie's band, Ironheade (With an E on the end, so people know they mean business), there are the the Drowned Doom and the Tainted Coil. The Drowned Doom have many units who's sole purpose is to debuff their enemies, and the tainted coil have weaker units but have some ability to summon them right to the battlefield. I haven't had much time to play with these factions, but they seem just as deep as Ironheade, even considering their sole role as opposition in the campaign.

Now we get to the game's allure (to me at least), the single player Campaign. Brutal Legend is one of the most fully realized Heavy Metal themed worlds anyone could possibly imagine. Several gods of the genre have terrific cameos - Ozzy Osbourne plays himself as the Guardian of Metal, a dark man in a lava pit who sells you upgrades. Lemmy "Kill Master" Kilmeister from Motorhead is the story's healer - using the music of his bass strings to heal the wounded. Brian Posehn playing himself as a hunter of wild Beasts of Heavy Metal. Rob Halford from Judas Priest has several cameo roles in the game, including the game's first villain, General Lionwhyte, a character based glam rock hair bands of the 80s. The names of the Main Characters are also references to Metal Legends - Lars and Lita Halford (Lars Ulrich, Lita Ford and Rob halford) and Eddie Riggs (Eddie Van Halen, and Eddie the Head, mascot for Iron Maiden).

The game bleeds metal from every oriface, then makes some new ones to bleed more metal from. The games characters, units, areas, landmarks are all based on Heavy Metal Imagery, Iconography, and Myth. The Creation Myth for the world of Brutal Legend is like something out of Metallocalypse, and could be sang by any of the great classic heavy metal bands. The game includes a playlist of over 100 songs from every subgenre of metal, to fit the different factions and locales.

The game is very funny, although it doesn't lose itself or its message for the sake of humor. Jack Black's voice acting is topnotch, although occasionally the tone in his voice is off from one line to the next. Almost every punchline in the game is delivered by Jack Black himself or Alex Fernandez playing the role of Mangus - Ironheade's Impromptu Sound Engineer.

This review is getting really long winded so I think I need to wrap it up. Should you check out Brutal Legend? Do you like Metal? If the answer is yes, and you play video games, then it's a no brainer. It'll turn off non-metal fans, and the game might be a little hard to get used to for some, but it's a pretty deep multiplayer game with a pretty damn good Single Player campaign ontop of that.

A few problems I have is the game feels rushed near the end - there isn't really a third act. The Second Act ends, and almost immediately the game ends. The game's difficulty seems to jump up and down.. Some of the side-missions are repeated too many times, and others, which were interesting, are never seen again. Eddie controls like a drunk beaver when he's not in his car or flying in the RTS segments.

I think I covered the rest of my issues. I'm going to give this a tenative recommendation. I really enjoyed it myself, but it's definitely a niche market they're going for with this one - Metal fans who like a decent strategy game.
 

Kavonde

Usually Neutral Good
Feb 8, 2010
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I loved the game, man. The hack and slash was solid (not exceptional, but solid), and the RTS, while intimidating as hell to a non-strategist like myself, was balanced by the ability to plow the Deuce through a horde of emo zombies or melt the faces off everyone in the vicinity with a quick solo. And the music, the atmosphere, the characters, the writing...I think that the critics did the game a disservice. It did something new, and it did it well, and I just don't understand how those 8's out of 10 weren't 9's.

I mean, sure, there was the fire breathing tiger training bit, and my first attempt at the Sea of Black Tears nearly made me throw my controller out the window, but on the other hand, there was the scene where

Drowned Ophelia shows up to collapse the bridge, and later the "Mr. Crowley" one that's been mentioned above.

So damn epic.
 

MiracleOfSound

Fight like a Krogan
Jan 3, 2009
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I loved the soundtrack, the characters, the set pieces, the metal...

But I absolutely hated the battles. They were so fucking fiddly to control and required way too much trial and error to find out what countered what.

If it had stayed a set piece driven hack n slash (like the lying bastard of a demo promised it would be)it would be one of my all time Top 10, but I hated the RTS bits so much that they pretty much ruined the game for me.
 

Altorin

Jack of No Trades
May 16, 2008
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I didn't like how the ending was spoiled by finding all of the secrets before beating the game.
 

wgreer25

Good news everyone!
Jun 9, 2008
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The problem I found with BL is that it can't decide what it wants to be. I applaud it for trying to break into some "new" ground with a new IP and creating something a little different, but over all it tried to do too many things and did none of them very well.

It had poor action/combat mechanics.
It was an average RTS.
It was a poor racer.
It was an average open world experience.
And throw in some rythm game mechanics to boot.

It was a jack of all trades and master of none. I would have been happier if they fine tuned the action/combat in the open world environment and forget the clunky RTS stuff. It's like you tried to make a soup out of the random crap in your fridge. It may be classified as food, but the thing as a whole doesn't taste very good.

On a positive note, it had the best soundtrack of any game... ever.
 

NickCaligo42

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Oct 7, 2007
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TPiddy said:
So, I've just recently finished up everything I wanted to do on Brutal Legend, and I must admit, I was fairly impressed by the game.

The quirky characters and excellent art design couple with a bangin' soundtrack and decent controls. Many of the 'units' in the RTS portions of the game were fun and the combination of being an RTS with the ability to get down and dirty with your troops or just drive the deuce around the battlefield gave it a unique feel.

I loved the solos and the guitar-based attacks, riding the animals, finding the jumps and they had some neat collection quests.

While I won't venture into the multiplayer at this point I thought this game was fun, unique and genuine, everything we've come to expect from Tim Schafer. So my question to you is, why does everyone think this was such a big disappointment?
First, in a way it's all the worst parts of modern gaming made manifest. I can sum it up for you ENTIRELY in genre lingo: it's an open-world third-person God of War-style hack-and-slash-RTS sandbox game. Between that description and a screenshot you'd be able to imagine exactly what playing this game is like with no need to actually go out and purchase it. Ordinarily you'd expect such a game to throw a curveball later on, but all of Brutal Legend's curveballs come right at the beginning as it transitions from the action-adventure into the RTS. After that it just stays that way and becomes brutally repetitive for the other 80% of the game. It's just a very underwhelming experience, particularly at the point of transition: that first mission when you've just built that first stage and are expecting it to be some kind of superweapon, but it's really one of the weakest things in the game. You're expecting a huge onslaught from Lionwhyte's army to come over the hill, but it's really about five guys.

Second, as RTSes go it's not really that good. The resources and dynamics between the players' bases are extremely one-dimensional, not giving the player a whole lot of room for strategy outside of choice of units and choice of static objectives. It's this aspect that bogs it down and makes it so repetetive; whereas a straight-up action-adventure like Zelda or a platformer like Mario finds something new to do in every stage, dungeon, or locale, the fundamental game design of Brutal Legend denies it any aspirations to variety, save perhaps its final battle sequence--which even then isn't all that different from the rest of the game, just harder and with a couple of hoops to jump through.

There's also a myriad of user interface problems that come with having an avatar in the middle of an RTS sequence. You just can't see what's going on. If there were a mini-map or something that could help you keep track of your army it might not be so bad, but as it stands you can send an army off to do something, go off and try to manage some other objective, and then when you check back on them you realize that all your troops went AWOL off-camera. It's an interface that's REALLY unfriendly towards multitasking, which is essential for playing this game well.

What's worse, though, is just the fact that you have an avatar. You can die in the middle of managing troops. Forget about the fact that you can also fight; let's just take it as an RTS for a minute, because that's the dominating mechanic here. You don't win by wading into a fight, you win by playing it like an RTS. Imagine if in a game of Warcraft one of the orcs were able to huck a boulder into the camera and kill you while you were giving orders to your army. That's what this is like, and there's a reason RTS-makers never, ever do this. It literally serves no purpose except to frustrate; well, and to keep the player from doing more damage in combat. Know what's a great answer to that problem? DON'T HAVE AN AVATAR IN AN RTS! Yes, half the point here is that it's an RTS with an avatar, but it's also a textbook example of why that's a really, really bad idea. It TRIES to mitigate these problems by adding a lot of tools to the player's arsenal--the stage, the buddy-up attacks (which were a REALLY good idea), the Deuce, the guitar--but the fact that the player will die almost instantly in any respectable battle--with or without their own troops as backup--is a pretty strong testament to the bad balance that these genres leave once mixed.

It's just... bad. It can be fun with all the stuff that you can actually interact with, and the units and armies themselves are genuinely well thought-out (even if it's incredibly fiddly to try and find a proper balance with them), but the gameplay is fundamentally flawed and overly complicated, and it drags on so much that it just serves to distract from the story that Schafer was trying to develop.
 

Megalodon

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May 14, 2010
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The biggest problem with the game was wasted potential. Make it about 1/3 longer (the length was really its biggest letdown), change the stage battles. My preference would have been for you to be leading your army of headbangers to purge the enemy force while the other major characters (who werte pretty much a band anyway), played on the stage and gave you supprt powers, healing from Lemmy, sonic destruction from Rob Halford's high pitched scream of death. If this had happened the game would have challenged the output of bioware as the best game ever imo.

But as it stands, it was just good.
 

socialmenace42

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May 8, 2010
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I didn't care for the RTS portions of the game, I feel they kind of hashed it a bit. But that didn't piss me off, since the raw concept and idea behind the game would have been enough. In fact, it WAS enough, then factioning in the gimmicks, the characters, the bizzarely wonderfull story and the design of the Sandbox (which i agree was a little bewildering but pretty and rather funny in places) I seriously enjoyed Brutal Legend.
 

nick n stuff

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Nov 19, 2009
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liked the RTS twist although all you had to do was gather and destroy. the soundtrack was amazing and the comedy was good too. however, the ending killed me. not a spoiler but it was crap and when it ended all you though was 'where's the rest of it'
 

TPiddy

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Aug 28, 2009
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wgreer25 said:
The problem I found with BL is that it can't decide what it wants to be. I applaud it for trying to break into some "new" ground with a new IP and creating something a little different, but over all it tried to do too many things and did none of them very well.

It had poor action/combat mechanics.
It was an average RTS.
It was a poor racer.
It was an average open world experience.
And throw in some rythm game mechanics to boot.

It was a jack of all trades and master of none. I would have been happier if they fine tuned the action/combat in the open world environment and forget the clunky RTS stuff. It's like you tried to make a soup out of the random crap in your fridge. It may be classified as food, but the thing as a whole doesn't taste very good.

On a positive note, it had the best soundtrack of any game... ever.
See, I thought this was exactly part of it's charm.... if you try to classify it as a platformer, an RTS, an open world game, or anything else, and compare it to the best in those categories, of course it will fail. But one thing I really enjoyed about Brutal Legend was the ever changing game play. I was never bored rolling around the world.