Its absolutely vile. Not only was shooting that dog completely wrong but there was no reason to arrest that man either. Sure he was being rude and obnoxious and shouldnt have been there but they shouldve taken a more tactful approach with him
Thoughts on Hawthorne, Ca Police Kill Dog
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Tasers, truncheons, pepperspray, tranquillisers, falling back on armed police officers if needs be.PatrickXD said:
Generally they will still shoot a dog if a firearms team gets there before it's restrained and it's seen as a significant threat.
In the situation from the video, in the absence of an armed officer, I'd imagine they'd probably use what they had until it backed off or lock it in a garden or shed or something until it calmed down.
I mean come on, 4 people versus a dog is pretty good odds. About 90% of a dog's aggression is bluster. And it was quite clearly just trying to follow its owner. It's confused, stops to sniff something on the floor before the officer tries to grab the collar, which is when it kicks off.
They could have at least tried something else.
Off the top of my head, and in order of preference:
1. Step away from the owner for a few seconds. Don't even need to un-handcuff him, just step away. Let dog chill out a bit, get owner to lead it back to car.
2. Just follow through and immobilise it properly. Dogs aren't actually that bad once you've got control of the head. It had a collar, all you need is one person to pin it's head, another to grab the back legs. Chuck it in the back of any available car and shut the door.
3. Fire weapon once into conveniently placed grass verge. Most dogs don't like loud noise, will most likely run away or at least cower - enabling two of your colleagues to sit on it.
4. If you really do have to shoot it, do it properly and actually kill it quickly. Don't leave the poor thing spasming.
I agree the owner was being a jackass, and caused the situation that led to the dog being killed, but that dog really wasn't a threat.
In his response video, Leon admitted that his dog Max, was lunging at the Police officer. So that should settle this matter there. Even the owner believes that the dog was going to attack the officer.
Even with that though, their are still better ways this could have been done in my eyes. Leon could've closed the windows, the officers who had him cuffed could have given him the chance to stop Max, the third officer could've used pepper spray or a tazor, but ultimately everyone --even the owner-- believe the dog was going for the third officer, so with that it sounds like self defense.
Even with that though, their are still better ways this could have been done in my eyes. Leon could've closed the windows, the officers who had him cuffed could have given him the chance to stop Max, the third officer could've used pepper spray or a tazor, but ultimately everyone --even the owner-- believe the dog was going for the third officer, so with that it sounds like self defense.
As someone who has suffered at the hands of corrupt police, the idea that we cannot record them is incredibly troubling to me. It's often said that "if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear," and this is obviously bad rhetoric from the perspective of ordinary citizens... but if you're representing The Law itself, then absolutely you shouldn't have anything to hide while you're in uniform. Every job I've ever worked has recorded me on the job, I would really like to understand why such a special rule is justified in the face of the people who are the most dangerous if corrupt.
The cop made the first move, when he could have as easily let the owner handle it. Unfortunately, provoking hostile action seems to be enough to justify lethal defense in this country, be it a dog or a human being.Glongpre said:
If you think an animal is "scary," then you don't make the first move.
I'm still confused as to the context of the arrest, but the dog saw people acting with hostility towards its owner and then towards itself. Also, as an ostensibly non-violent offender, it's not unreasonable to let him secure his animal first. This was just....dickish.
I understand that. And furthermore, in my experience you can be arrested for far, far less than even that, if they just decide they don't like you (hint: they never like you). However, none of that matters: the fact that he wasn't 'just' arrested for recording does nothing to alleviate my concern.Desert Punk said:
Dog dies because of dumbfuck owner. Dogs die like that, people get injured - sometimes killed - because of that all the time. No tears shed, though I agree the bullet should have gone to that yolonite.
Also, there is supposedly a longer video available that shows the shitsmear insult and disturb an ongoing... what was it.. hostage situation? or was the armed? burglar alone in that house.
Also, there is supposedly a longer video available that shows the shitsmear insult and disturb an ongoing... what was it.. hostage situation? or was the armed? burglar alone in that house.
Yes but I think instead of holding on to him and keeping him separate from the dog. They could have let him go and asked him to put the dog back in the car. The guy didn't look like he was resisting at all, and I don't think he was any real threat. The dog was potentially dangerous, but if they'd just let the owner deal with it or (heaven forbid) sort the dog out themselves. Then there was no need for the dog to get shot.Mimsofthedawg said:
In the UK that dog should be muzzled, its the law and a dog of that size can do a lot of damage really quickly. In the UK and probably USA as well people keep dogs as weapons and not as pets. The owner should keep it in check.
As for using non lethal methods. What? Pepper spray is good for humans, but that would just piss the dog off in a heart beat. I guess they could use a dart, but i guess there was no time to wait for an animal control person. An im sure the police have dealt with situations where dogs attack them and there was no way to know if that guy would set the dog on them. I would still say its the owners fault, just leave the area with your dog. Sometimes its better to make the judgement call.
But i agree, it sucks for the dog for having a dumb arse owner.
As for using non lethal methods. What? Pepper spray is good for humans, but that would just piss the dog off in a heart beat. I guess they could use a dart, but i guess there was no time to wait for an animal control person. An im sure the police have dealt with situations where dogs attack them and there was no way to know if that guy would set the dog on them. I would still say its the owners fault, just leave the area with your dog. Sometimes its better to make the judgement call.
But i agree, it sucks for the dog for having a dumb arse owner.
There are various cuts around, maybe check LL? I am still neither willing nor able to watch the video as I would EXPLODE WITH RAGE, and I just can't do that.somonels said:
Police were on site in the process of surrounding a house with a suspected hostage situation and an armed gunman inside the house. Police were trying to listen for any clues as to what was going on when Mr. Shitsmear Dumbfuck drove by, music blaring from his car. He stopped the car, officers asked him to turn off the music as it obviously messed with their ability to hear things in an unresolved situation. Mr. SD turned the music down 'a little', then proceeded to go walkies with his Rott on the leash in one hand and a camera/phone in the other hand.
He had no reason to stop there.
He had no reason to play loud music.
He had no reason harassing officers on the job.
He had no reason to take Max the now dead Rott out of the car.
He was given enough time to put Max away into the car, which he did prior to being arrested, but he left the windows wide open - wide enough for Max, a two-year-old Rottweiler, to jump out through.
Max got killed because his owner is a trolloping douche. The cops were just trying to do their job.
I know. Even a taser i wouldnt be confident if that would stop it or annoy it. In the UK there were people attacked by a pit bull, a guy stuck one of those two pronged meat fork things into its neck multiple times and it didnt even slow it down. It only let go when blood loss killed it. Even with a rottweiler, you get one of those pissed off with you then your in major trouble. An with the police, they have to worry about the people in the surrounding area as well as themselves.Yosharian said:
We took our Rott places - even when it involved paperwork, bakshish or other minor inconveniences. We had our Rott attacked by a police dog once, but the two cops knew it was their fault. both dogs had minor punctures but our bill was paid by the cops, so no hard feelings. Shit happens. In France, Italy and Germany, however, I would not want to rely on a muzzle saving your dogs life. I would expect cops or criminals to shoot on sight if you were to release your molossoid-type dog.SonOfVoorhees said:
You said it, and it's really what it is all about - the owner has to keep control on the dog at any and all times, be it through leash/muzzle for close quarters contact with police/strangers or through commands AND PROPER EDUCATION AND TRAINING. A dog that is told to stay put has to stay put. A dog that is told to come here, go there or sit down has to do just that, no matter whether it's a Chihuahua or a Rottweiler.
A strong-minded, wild, enraged, untrained or well trained dog will not care one bit about being hit with pepper spray - or bullets, for that matter.
In this particular situation, it absolutely has to be noted that the cops were smack in the middle of a stressful and tense situation already, without Mr. Cornholio pestering them and putting a beautiful young Rott in harm's way.
You are right, he should have left the area with the dog for the sake of the dog. Instead, he stopped his car to film police, he annoyed them with loud music from his car and he walked up and down with his dog on a leash, living the good life of trendy cop-spotting. When party was over and police had had enough, he was indeed allowed to put the dog inside the car, but he left the car windows open, so Max the dog decided to go help his owner and jumped out of the window.
Some people should just not be allowed to have pets.
I can't fault the cops for not noticing the window was open and the dog could escape, they're watching for people, maybe additional suspects possibly in the crowd, other nearby cars inside or the opposite side of the cordon, covering other officers, you can't control everything, people have dogs and they will escape every once in awhile.
I don't know what the cops were there for so maybe keeping people away wasn't the highest priority, till this guy stood closer than anyone recording them making them nervous, that being said they were close to the guy at the start of the video and could have told him to back off, however it is probably protocol to detain such people straight away to keep them out of the way, which is hard when they have a rottweiler.
I've been around dogs when they have to be moved or controlled by someone other than their owner and they freak the hell out, those cops had no chance of controlling it in that situation and so with regret i approve of the shooting.
I don't know what the cops were there for so maybe keeping people away wasn't the highest priority, till this guy stood closer than anyone recording them making them nervous, that being said they were close to the guy at the start of the video and could have told him to back off, however it is probably protocol to detain such people straight away to keep them out of the way, which is hard when they have a rottweiler.
I've been around dogs when they have to be moved or controlled by someone other than their owner and they freak the hell out, those cops had no chance of controlling it in that situation and so with regret i approve of the shooting.
Yet another reason why cops disgust me. They don't even bother trying to find the best solution to any problem, merely the easiest one. This is the end result. Worst yet, they won't face any consequences, seeing as how all they gotta do is say they were threatened and it's case closed.
It's not often I hear about four armed cops all getting killed by a playful dog. Or even one adult man being killed by a dog in north America.
I feel that the owner is ultimately to blame.
But the cops went too far in their response.
I feel that the owner is ultimately to blame.
But the cops went too far in their response.
"Hawthorne police Lt. Scott Swain said the shooting was in the interests of everyone's safety.
'I know it's the dog's master, and more than likely not going to attack him, (but) we've got a guy handcuffed that's kind of defenseless. We have a duty to defend him, too,' he said."
http://www.news.com.au/world-news/california-cops-shoot-rottweiler-dead-in-front-of-owner-leon-rosby/story-fndir2ev-1226673433471
Not much more needs to be said with regard to the cops' (lack of) thought process.
'I know it's the dog's master, and more than likely not going to attack him, (but) we've got a guy handcuffed that's kind of defenseless. We have a duty to defend him, too,' he said."
http://www.news.com.au/world-news/california-cops-shoot-rottweiler-dead-in-front-of-owner-leon-rosby/story-fndir2ev-1226673433471
Not much more needs to be said with regard to the cops' (lack of) thought process.