Thoughts on Mirrors Edge: Catalyst?

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Lightknight

Mugwamp Supreme
Nov 26, 2008
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kris40k said:
Mirror's Edge Catalyst is going to kill me.

Not hyperbole, when they find me dead, avenge me by burning down EA. You see. I fucking loved Mirror's Edge. LOVED. Like, in the ways only a man can love a disc with a hole in it. Anyhoo, years ago EA pissed me off so much I became one of those "Boycott EA!!!" types. You know the ones.

And I've stuck to it. And its pretty damn hard, EA puts out a ton of shit.

Still sticking to it...

...gonna have a fucking embolism over this game and drop dead.

If people said "its more of the same with prettier graphics," my response would be "GOOD!". Glad some of you bastards are enjoying it.
I'll generally only buy used copies of their games and only ones that don't require an origin account. For example, I've never played Mass Effect 3 though I loved the series.

That's how I get to enjoy some of their games without putting money into their pockets.
 

Andy Shandy

Fucked if I know
Jun 7, 2010
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Lightknight said:
Andy Shandy said:
Oh, I can explain that one.
Thanks to a blog post [https://www.destructoid.com/blogs/Dwavenhobble/the-sarkeesian-the-dice-and-the-mirror--235992.phtml] on Destructoid with no sources in it whatsoever, people somehow believe that everyone's favourite, Anita Sarkeesian, is/was working on the game. It's a load of bollocks, naturally, but that's never stopped the idiots of the internet before.
Yeah, the games industry ran with that one: http://n4g.com/news/1640735/ea-replied-to-a-fan-petition-to-remove-anita-sarkeesian-from-mirrors-edge-2-game-development

It is quite funny how even the hint of Sarkeesian makes them mad.
Considering her volatile relationship with the average gamer (that even knows about her)
That'll be the one that started when she dared to run a Kickstarter for a video series that examined women in video games, and parts of the internet descended on her like a horde of locusts including shite like a game that revolved around beating her up?

Oh aye, that's her fault.

I'd understand people being concerned with her having any kind of significant role in designing a game actually intended for the average gamer. It's bad enough to have politics of any kind crammed in games without ones that are currently so controversial in the industry being slapped in everyone's faces.
So no politics in games then? No GTA? no Bioshock? No Fallout? etc. Bye bye to all of them then because they have politics in them (there are, of course, others, but I went with some of the more popular franchises).

This is ignoring the fact that creating a game for some imaginary average gamer is dumb in itself.

As for me, I guess it'd depend on what she actually brought to the table if it had happened (which it didn't). Would it be a fresh take on a heroine or some sort of insight? I doubt it but if so then hell yeah! More likely it'd be more in the vein of how there's "no such thing as sexism against men", we're all latent rapists, and violence against men is fine but not against women. Typical sexist Sarkeesian rhetoric. Shame because she does bring up some very valid points regarding society's sexism in general too.
So you'd write her off - despite having valid points - because she has said one daft thing (I can't find any sources for her saying that men are all latent rapists or the violence against men is fine)?

Anyway, it's dawned on me as I posted it, none of this is about Mirror's Edge (particularly since she isn't involved) so I'm going to draw a line under it here.
 

DoPo

"You're not cleared for that."
Jan 30, 2012
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Andy Shandy said:
Thanks to a blog post [https://www.destructoid.com/blogs/Dwavenhobble/the-sarkeesian-the-dice-and-the-mirror--235992.phtml] on Destructoid with no sources in it whatsoever, people somehow believe that everyone's favourite, Anita Sarkeesian, is/was working on the game. It's a load of bollocks, naturally, but that's never stopped the idiots of the internet before.
Funny that, isn't it. Some people would try to ignore any evidence to the contrary in order to justify things that aren't true and cannot be true, like "the world is flat". And there is a similar sort of willing self-delusion that picks up the tiniest of "evidences" for something, ignoring even checking if it's real, and choose to religiously follow it, like this or "Denuvo destroys SSDs".

They appear to be the two sides of the same coin.
 

Lightknight

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Nov 26, 2008
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Setec Astronomy said:
Lightknight said:
Andy Shandy said:
Oh, I can explain that one.
Thanks to a blog post [https://www.destructoid.com/blogs/Dwavenhobble/the-sarkeesian-the-dice-and-the-mirror--235992.phtml] on Destructoid with no sources in it whatsoever, people somehow believe that everyone's favourite, Anita Sarkeesian, is/was working on the game. It's a load of bollocks, naturally, but that's never stopped the idiots of the internet before.
Yeah, the games industry ran with that one: http://n4g.com/news/1640735/ea-replied-to-a-fan-petition-to-remove-anita-sarkeesian-from-mirrors-edge-2-game-development

It is quite funny how even the hint of Sarkeesian makes them mad.
Considering her volatile relationship with the average gamer (that even knows about her)
I know her as, "That person the neckbeards all can't stand." Does that count? For the record though, "The average gamer" at this point is probably Chinese 50% of the time, right?
The qualifier I included as the of average gamer that knows about her limits the scope more than you might think.
 

09philj

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Andy Shandy said:
I'm hoping to pick it up in a few weeks. I would get it immediately, but it's my birthday then, so I've been advised to wait. Very much enjoyed my time with the beta though, so I'm cautiously optimistic for the full game.

Sassafrass said:
Well I enjoyed the beta, so I'm looking forward to the full game when it unlocks on the 9th.

Metacritic user reviews seem to be hitting it hard though. Currently sat there at a 1.5 rating. 100+ negative reviews, but yet I can only read 3 of them.
Oh, I can explain that one.



Thanks to a blog post [https://www.destructoid.com/blogs/Dwavenhobble/the-sarkeesian-the-dice-and-the-mirror--235992.phtml] on Destructoid with no sources in it whatsoever, people somehow believe that everyone's favourite, Anita Sarkeesian, is/was working on the game. It's a load of bollocks, naturally, but that's never stopped the idiots of the internet before.

It is quite funny how even the hint of Sarkeesian makes them mad.
I'm the right's idea of a filthy SJW and I could spend a fun packed afternoon dangling her off a bridge.
 

DementedSheep

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Lightknight said:
Andy Shandy said:
Oh, I can explain that one.
Thanks to a blog post [https://www.destructoid.com/blogs/Dwavenhobble/the-sarkeesian-the-dice-and-the-mirror--235992.phtml] on Destructoid with no sources in it whatsoever, people somehow believe that everyone's favourite, Anita Sarkeesian, is/was working on the game. It's a load of bollocks, naturally, but that's never stopped the idiots of the internet before.
Yeah, the games industry ran with that one: http://n4g.com/news/1640735/ea-replied-to-a-fan-petition-to-remove-anita-sarkeesian-from-mirrors-edge-2-game-development

It is quite funny how even the hint of Sarkeesian makes them mad.
Considering her volatile relationship with the average gamer (that even knows about her), I'd understand people being concerned with her having any kind of significant role in designing a game actually intended for the average gamer. It's bad enough to have politics of any kind crammed in games without ones that are currently so controversial in the industry being slapped in everyone's faces.

As for me, I guess it'd depend on what she actually brought to the table if it had happened (which it didn't). Would it be a fresh take on a heroine or some sort of insight? I doubt it but if so then hell yeah! More likely it'd be more in the vein of how there's "no such thing as sexism against men", we're all latent rapists, and violence against men is fine but not against women. Typical sexist Sarkeesian rhetoric. Shame because she does bring up some very valid points regarding society's sexism in general too.
So being "concerned" = review bombing a game they haven't played because someone with politics they don't like is hinted to have been consulted for it (which is bullshit anyway).
That's the politically neutral for you, folks!
 

Hazy992

Why does this place still exist
Aug 1, 2010
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I probably won't end up playing it, unfortunately I tend to get a little motion sick with 1st person games unless it's a shooter or something. I think I need something substantial in the middle of the screen to focus on.
Andy Shandy said:
I'm hoping to pick it up in a few weeks. I would get it immediately, but it's my birthday then, so I've been advised to wait. Very much enjoyed my time with the beta though, so I'm cautiously optimistic for the full game.

Sassafrass said:
Well I enjoyed the beta, so I'm looking forward to the full game when it unlocks on the 9th.

Metacritic user reviews seem to be hitting it hard though. Currently sat there at a 1.5 rating. 100+ negative reviews, but yet I can only read 3 of them.
Oh, I can explain that one.



Thanks to a blog post [https://www.destructoid.com/blogs/Dwavenhobble/the-sarkeesian-the-dice-and-the-mirror--235992.phtml] on Destructoid with no sources in it whatsoever, people somehow believe that everyone's favourite, Anita Sarkeesian, is/was working on the game. It's a load of bollocks, naturally, but that's never stopped the idiots of the internet before.

It is quite funny how even the hint of Sarkeesian makes them mad.
WHAT HAVE YOU DONE
 

Lightknight

Mugwamp Supreme
Nov 26, 2008
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Andy Shandy said:
That'll be the one that started when she dared to run a Kickstarter for a video series that examined women in video games, and parts of the internet descended on her like a horde of locusts including shite like a game that revolved around beating her up?

Oh aye, that's her fault.
I don't think her merely starting an examination of women in games is the cause of it exploding so badly.

For example, I personally appreciate that she brought up the subject of how females are addressed in games. I, for one, grew tired of the trite portrayal of horribly written characters. Some dumb bimbo taking a keen interest in you is really illusion breaking in any setting but a bar or brothel. So I like the idea that writing for female characters will become less lazy now that the topic has been reached.

But I find her argument against damsels both flawed and at times sexist. For one the entire point of a damsel story is actually to paint the villain as an evil person who took away the agency of the damsel and the goal of the protagonist to return said agency. Anita erroneously paints it as though the protagonist is somehow objectifying them and instead inserts the definition of the word object as though it were objectification. I found this to be dishonest if not ignorant of the subject matter as it is a good thing to teach us that bad guys objectify and good guys take action from stopping the powerful from doing that to the weak. I found it offensive/sexist when she then began to make the argument that, after she did all the footwork to make it out to be evil, it is somehow ok if it happens to male characters because they're not females.

So I find many of her arguments flawed and misandrist in nature even if I approve of the intention behind it. I do not want a person who is ignorant/dishonest and misandrist in charge of pretty much any product I consume for the same reason I avoid buying goods from a known racist. It bothers me that I continue to see good points sprinkled in with deceptive/sexist ones because other people are quoting her and believing her and they're not distinguishing the good ones from the bad.

So no politics in games then? No GTA? no Bioshock? No Fallout? etc. Bye bye to all of them then because they have politics in them (there are, of course, others, but I went with some of the more popular franchises).

This is ignoring the fact that creating a game for some imaginary average gamer is dumb in itself.
The best games convey a message subtly. They do not beat you over the head with the message until you can't see anything but it. Most of those games have philosophies or social commentaries rather than actual current political pandering.

There is a difference between a game that makes you think about politics and a game that is preaching politics at you. I'm not sure exactly how to word the point that I'm trying to convey but there does seem to be a major distinction. Imagine a game where at the end of it you learn that the protagonist never existed and the world died because the mother aborted the protagonist as a fetus such that the whole game turned out to be anti-choice grandstanding piece. That would be different than a game where certain genes were aborted (think GATTACA) but one slipped through the cracks and those genes somehow allowed the protagonist that had them to save humanity. The subtext becomes more think-heavy and less brow beaten into you. The game and sense of empowerment remains intact.

Hmm, perhaps it's the feeling of sacrificing enjoyment for the politics that I'm trying to express?

So you'd write her off - despite having valid points - because she has said one daft thing (I can't find any sources for her saying that men are all latent rapists or the violence against men is fine)?
She has routinely expressed sexism. Is that not something that would discredit/undermine her ability to adequately portray women in contrast with men? If she produced quality work then I'd praise it and I do like some of the points she makes when valid and well researched. But in the absence of such examples I am forced to remain skeptical of her ability to produce such works.

She has said on multiple occasions that certain things happening to male characters are not equivalent to the same things happening to female characters. The justification being that the latter perpetuates stereotypes that women are weaker than males (Another point of dishonesty since females in the human species are significantly weaker on average than males). These kinds of comments justify actions she had just demonized as being objectifying of females. So she's trying to have it both ways, that it's only bad when it happens to women and that the action is intrinsically evil. It shouldn't be both unless the speaker is sexist and does not value harm directed at men at the same rate as being directed at women.

Her sex negative feminism also only gets extended to women for the same reason as before where a sexy woman is perpetuating the myth of female objectification while male sexuality is somehow a non-issue. I mean, she's not as extreme as Dworkin or anything but she borrows a heck of a lot from her and the refusal to allow her claims to be extended to attack all forms against sexism is a significant criticism if you're only willing to accept my claim that sexism in any form is wrong. Her claims on men providing goods (like dinner) in return for sex is an exchange women currently have to rely on because of it (male entitlement) being a persistent backdrop of society. This makes the incredible leap that women are obligated to have sex even when they do not wish to as a social construct. Ergo, men are rapists because patriarchy is rape by making women reliant on men and sex being a viable currency. In reality, women are in control of their relationships far more than men are and only actual rape is rape. But she keeps relying on Dwokin's philosophies without explicitly acknowledging her influence and actual conclusions of sex as military occupation. How much of Dwokin's work does she have to mirror in her own work before we accept that she ascribes to her work?

I also object to her and anyone's appropriation of the term sexism as requiring power. Not only is that used in scholarship as a provisional definition (a shorter term than having to say institutional sexism every time), but she somehow holds that just because men are the dominant gender with power in society that women do not hold or exercise power in obviously sexist manners. So it both trivializes male victims of sexism + power and trivializes the many accomplishments of women in today's society when Anita says, "There's no such thing as sexism against men. That's because sexism is prejudice + power". This comment literally serves NO purpose except to disenfranchise male victims of sexism. It's a hell of a double standard and not one we should have to take lightly. I also take issue to the diminishing of non-powered sexism. I think a white hobo spitting on a black businessman in the street while calling him the N-Word is still being a racist and committing racism. It does not benefit anyone to eradicate racism as race-based prejudice. It's all vile and wrong.

Of course, none of these things warrant any kind of threats or violence. But being against her as a person just like I'd be against a clan leader getting a position of leadership in a civil war game shouldn't be somehow controversial.

Anyway, it's dawned on me as I posted it, none of this is about Mirror's Edge (particularly since she isn't involved) so I'm going to draw a line under it here.
Currently Mirror's Edge 2 is getting unfairly nuked in the user score department. The reason pertains to people believing she was given elevated access to the game's production.

We are merely discussing why such anger exists and why it isn't necessarily wrong of people to dislike a sexist bigot being part of production. Now, you know and I know that she didn't have anything to do with this game. Also, I am adamantly against reviewing a game you have not played, so I not only find the reviewers' actions ignorant but also dishonest.
 

Fallow

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Sassafrass said:
Well I enjoyed the beta, so I'm looking forward to the full game when it unlocks on the 9th.

Metacritic user reviews seem to be hitting it hard though. Currently sat there at a 1.5 rating. 100+ negative reviews, but yet I can only read 3 of them.
Check out OpenCritic [http://opencritic.com/] instead, it's much better. Remove the sources you don't like/distrust and check what the score is.
 

B-Cell_v1legacy

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Sheria said:
B-Cell said:
http://www.gamersnexus.net/news/2470-mirrors-edge-catalyst-drm-limits-activations-to-4-upgrades

What THE HELL DID i Just Read??!

Never thought a Company is that Anti Customer!!. EA is taking to the New Level.
PC gaming in general is quite off-putting. My PC is only for the odd exclusive these days. As with most things, Mirrors Edge I was always going to get on console. That is quite bad though.
my friend, its company like EA that is treating PC gamers like second class citizen. almost every multiplat game is better on PC. games like Doom I cant imagine playing anything other than PC.

Mirrors Edge or EA games in general are not good at all.

also when was the last time DICE made a good SP game. im not surprised that game is failing. it has lowest user score on metacritic. if they released on steam. game would bombed so hard by steam reviewers.
 

Skatalite

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B-Cell said:
Mirrors Edge or EA games in general are not good at all.

also when was the last time DICE made a good SP game. im not surprised that game is failing. it has lowest user score on metacritic. if they released on steam. game would bombed so hard by steam reviewers.
In 2011, Dead Space 2.

Edit: Oh just Dice, not EA as a whole. 2008 then.
 

Bob_McMillan

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Skatalite said:
B-Cell said:
Mirrors Edge or EA games in general are not good at all.

also when was the last time DICE made a good SP game. im not surprised that game is failing. it has lowest user score on metacritic. if they released on steam. game would bombed so hard by steam reviewers.
In 2011, Dead Space 2.

Edit: Oh just Dice, not EA as a whole. 2008 then.
No love for Bad Company 2?

I just say that, I never actually finished it. I hear it's good, or at least better than the average multiplayer FPS campaign these days.
 

Sharia

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B-Cell said:
Sheria said:
B-Cell said:
http://www.gamersnexus.net/news/2470-mirrors-edge-catalyst-drm-limits-activations-to-4-upgrades

What THE HELL DID i Just Read??!

Never thought a Company is that Anti Customer!!. EA is taking to the New Level.
PC gaming in general is quite off-putting. My PC is only for the odd exclusive these days. As with most things, Mirrors Edge I was always going to get on console. That is quite bad though.
Doom I cant imagine playing anything other than PC.
Its actually really good on PS4, plays like a dream. Looks just as good as well in my opinion.

I actually saw Hard Reset has just landed on console now as well. I have the original version on PC but I might just pick this new Redux version up for PS4.

As for Mirrors Edge, I'm sorry but I'm not going to judge it based on what some other people think. I'll play it first before writing it off thank you :) The original was really good.
 

B-Cell_v1legacy

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Sheria said:
B-Cell said:
Sheria said:
B-Cell said:
http://www.gamersnexus.net/news/2470-mirrors-edge-catalyst-drm-limits-activations-to-4-upgrades

What THE HELL DID i Just Read??!

Never thought a Company is that Anti Customer!!. EA is taking to the New Level.
PC gaming in general is quite off-putting. My PC is only for the odd exclusive these days. As with most things, Mirrors Edge I was always going to get on console. That is quite bad though.
Doom I cant imagine playing anything other than PC.
Its actually really good on PS4, plays like a dream. Looks just as good as well in my opinion.

I actually saw Hard Reset has just landed on console now as well. I have the original version on PC but I might just pick this new Redux version up for PS4.

As for Mirrors Edge, I'm sorry but I'm not going to judge it based on what some other people think. I'll play it first before writing it off thank you :) The original was really good.

so basically you are still playing PC oriented games on console sheria.. if I buy console in future it would be for few exclusive like Uncharted 4.

I hated the first game and could not play more than hour. it was imo very repetetive and get boring very fast.
 

Sharia

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For the most part, yeah. There's the odd thing I wont buy on console, RPG's like Divinity: OS or maybe some RTS games, but for almost all other multiplatform games, I go console.

You? Uncharted 4? Are you serious?
 

B-Cell_v1legacy

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Sheria said:
.

You? Uncharted 4? Are you serious?
I mean IF i would be interested in consoles. UC4 is only slightly interesting thing compare to stuff like last guardian and others.