dscross said:
It's getting panned by reviewers at the moment. It saddens me to see Sonic get this treatment after the success of Mania (I'm a long time casual fan).
Ditto.
I haven't played a Sonic game since Unleashed/Rush Adventure (one of them, forget which was the last one), but I'd like to see him do better than he's currently doing.
CritialGaming said:
Sonic does not, and will never, fit into a 3D system.
Except Sonic Adventure 1/2, Heroes, reportedly Generations and Colours, etc. (do isometric entries count as 3D?)
I'm not disputing that there's some absolute Sonic turds (Secret Rings for instance, at least in gameplay), but 3D in of itself isn't the problem. It's easy to find 2D stinkers as well (e.g. Sonic Blast).
dscross said:
I don't understand how Sonic still has fans,
Speaking as a casual fan:
*Old games were part of my childhood, so there's that.
*Sonic's remained very much alive in comics, cartoons, etc. I ended up quitting the Archie comics series for various reasons, but the cartoons have always been fun to varying extents. Boom is arguably a microcosm, in that we have a pretty good cartoon stemming from a reportedly mediocre game.
*Very much a third tier reason, but as someone who writes fanfiction, Sonic as a multiverse is very easy to write for. How and why could fill a topic in of its own (note: it's not slash, so don't get any ideas), but that is arguably part of the reason for me.
As I said, very much a casual fan, and I can't see myself getting Forces anytime soon given how it's been panned, but let's just say my interest isn't completely dead.
CritialGaming said:
I hated the Adventure games. I don't like any of Sonic's weird fucking friends. (Big the CAT!)
No-one likes Big, but that's like shooting fish in a barrel.
CritialGaming said:
Look at the list of 3D Sonic games. Then set them aside into a good or bad pile, and then look at the good pile. How many of the "good" ones are actually good, and not just better then the really shitty ones. The answer is none imo.
Do isometric ones count? Assuming they do, and confining this to "good" or "bad," and limiting them to the ones I've played:
THE GOOD
-Sonic 3D
-Sonic Adventure
-Sonic Adventure 2
-Sonic Heroes
-Sonic Battle
THE BAD
-Sonic Labyrinth
-Shadow the Hedgehog
-Sonic 06
-Sonic and the Secret Rings
I'd have preferred an "average" option as well, (I've played some of Unleashed, but I can't honestly put it in "good" or "bad") but if I'm left with those ones, that leaves me at around 50/50 as far as 3D entries go. If you cut out the isometric entries, that has me at 3 good, 3 bad.
So, yeah. I don't buy the idea that Sonic in 3D is inherently a bad thing.
Xsjadoblayde said:
As a person who quite enjoyed sonic adventure 1 & 2...though 2 aged better...i believe they started giving up after then. It's something I've accepted long ago.
I don't think they gave up per se. I mean, looking at the mainstream Sonic entries, it seems to me like there's a flow:
-Adventure 1 & 2 are congruent. 2 has changes for better and worse, but it's still basically the core ideas.
-Heroes is an oddball that I'm mixed on. Different gameplay, different tone, different everything (well, almost). I can't see it being an evolution of the Adventure formula.
-Shadow and 06 are the 3D entries' 'grimdark' phase, and the point where the 3D entries went downhill. Even if 06 played perfectly, there's some choices in there that are just bizzare (e.g. Elise). 06 is more in sync with Adventure than Heroes, but it's flawed at its core.
-Storybook games aren't mainline entries (arguably Shadow isn't either, so...)
-Unleashed strikes me as a reaction to 06 - more kiddy tone, a more basic approach. Then we go into Colors, which strips things down even further (no Werehog), even in plot (an even more kiddy tone).
-Generations and Forces are congruent in that we're in the realm of really leaning on nostalgia. Lost World is the odd one out in this series - not sure how it fits in.
Honestly, it strikes me that as of Shadow, the 3D games have been chasing their tail. Adventure 1, 2, and Heroes knew what they wanted to be, but after that, we're either going down the 'dark and gritty' route, then going to 'back to basics,' then going to nostalgia.
immortalfrieza said:
The last Sonic game I really played was Shadow the Hedgehog. I love both the game and the character himself immensely and I can't understand all the freaking hatred (well, I agree about the motorcycle controls but the rest of the vehicles worked just fine and the cycle was only in like 1 or 2 levels) it gets. So much innovation, the story, the gameplay, the different objectives that changed the way the story went that gave it so much replay value (and is really still the only "Good or Evil choices" game that actually changes the story depending on what you do in a real fashion,) so much of it just worked so brilliantly and the complaints seem to boil down to Shadow being too "edgy" as though that was a bad thing or even really true (dark maybe, but edgy, not really and if so so what?)
Shadow the Hedgehog has a good idea in it (the branching pathways), but I can't say I'm fond of it. Looking back at the 3D games, Heroes felt like a step down from the Adventure games for me, but I still enjoyed it. But playing Shadow...that was where things just felt wrong. And I can say I don't like it for the following reasons:
-The branching paths is a nice idea in theory, but it's just so tedious (for me) to go through all of those paths to get the true ending, especially when there's often no congruence between them. As in, Shadow might be a jackass in one path, then go paragon the next second, and go on what feels like an unrelated sub-plot. It also means I have to play Westopolis over and over. I'd have much preferred it if there were just three paths (good/evil/neutral) that allowed for more refined experiences.
-Didn't affect me at the time, but looking back, Shadow pushed the 'dark and edgy' route too far. This partly stems from my issues with Shadow as a character post-SA2 (which is another matter), but, yeah.
-Don't find it fun to play. Guns are tedious, and the controls feel slippery. Heroes had this problem as well, but not nearly as bad.
Overall, just found Shadow tedious. And eventually I got 06 afterwards and...well, I don't think it's the worst game in the world, but like Shadow, it's more dull than anything.
