Thoughts on trilogies

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Beowulf DW

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[If this has been done already, I sincerely apologize; I just have some thoughts and had to share them. I apologize again because I've just realized that this is a really random little essay on a topic most people probably don't care about.]

Trilogies seem to have become rather popular over the past few years, as far as movies and novels are concerned.

Trilogies can be quite interesting when one examines their plot structures. Each part of the trilogy tells a third of the whole story and as such basic plot elements like rising action, climax and resolution must be present across the three movies/novels. However, each of the three parts of the trilogy must also have their own plot elements. Sometimes this can result in a climax within a climax. This usually seems to occur within the second part of the trilogy, and can have the unintentional effect of making the third and final part of the trilogy look bad.

Many trilogies hit their "peak" at the second part of the trilogy, and as a result the final part often looks as though it is the worst part of the trilogy. On one hand, this is a valid opinion because the final portion of any trilogy is supposed to contain the "grand finale" and one should expect such things to improve with time, as the actors/directors/writers gain more experience. However, the last part of any story is supposed to contain a "falling action" and resolution which means that the action and drama are supposed to return to the levels they were at in the first part of the trilogy. This can sometimes mean that even if the third part of a trilogy is actually just as good as the first part, it will be seen as inferior to the first part of the trilogy.

There seem to be two predominant ways to make a trilogy: an episode method and a unified method. The episode method uses the same characters and a common theme or focus, but the main story for each portion of the trilogy is different. An example of this would probably be the Shrek movies. Shrek, Shrek II, and Shrek the Third all had different stories, but in the end they were all centered on the development of Shrek's romance with Fiona. Trilogies which use the episode method also seem more susceptible to the dilemma mentioned in the last paragraph. Again, the Shrek movies can be used as an example of this because the first and second movies received great reviews (I certainly liked them), but the third one seemed to be the worst of the three.

[Note: I am well aware that there will be more Shrek movies, but at this point in time I can still consider them a trilogy.]

The other predominant method I mentioned, the unified method, refers to a trilogy that tells a single, grand story. These kinds of trilogies seem to be more resistant to the "reaching the peak in the second part" syndrome that I mentioned earlier. One shining example would undoubtedly be the original Star Wars trilogy; however even Star Wars was not totally immune to the second-part-peak syndrome. While Return of the Jedi is generally considered a damn good movie (especially by me), The Empire Strikes Back, the second film, is widely viewed as the best of the original trilogy, an opinion I don?t share.

I don?t know why I feel the need to type all of this. I suppose that I just noticed a bad trend in trilogies and wanted to point it out. What?s really frustrating me now is that I can?t seem to think of a trilogy in any medium that doesn?t follow this trend. Oh well.

P.S. Does anyone think I should have put this in the review section? Because this whole little essay looks almost like a review of trilogies in general, but that really wasn?t my purpose in writing this.
 

PedroSteckecilo

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Actually a story told in three parts is just that, a story in three parts. A "true trilogy" needs to have independent plots with interlacing threads.

Basically, Star Wars is a good trilogy, Lord of the Rings is a bad one... in very simple terms.
 

rossatdi

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Good trilogies:

Die Hard - droops in the middle
Indiana Jones - droops in the middle
Back To The Future - sags at the end
Star Wars - arguable starts a bit wonky
Lord of the Rings - definitely droops in the middle and then the end just keeps going.

Similarity? All of them started life as single films except Lord of the Rings. Yes, yes, but Star Wars wasn't fully conceived of as a trilogy in anyone's head but Lucas's.

Out of the actual good trilogies out there (Die Hard 4 and Indy 4 will be excluded as a matter of decency towards the respective franchises) tend naturally to sag in the middle. The initial set up for adventure and the first full time are completed, the sequel gets neither the satisfaction of completing an overarching story or breaking new ground. Which is why they often seem a little aimless.

(Disqualified Alien, Terminator & Godfather for their awful third films)
(Disqualified Night, Dawn, Day of the Dead for having no recurrent characters, or even time periods!)
 

Naeo

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If the trilogy is meant to be a trilogy from the beginning, and the people know the general plot of what they're going to be doing for all three parts, they usually turn into at least decent trilogies (or epic ones- see Lord of the Rings). But, as is usually the case, there's a successful first film and the people are like "WHOAH WE CAN MAKE MONEY OFF OF THIS" and just throw together sequels, then it's usually pretty bad.
 

Beowulf DW

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PedroSteckecilo said:
Actually a story told in three parts is just that, a story in three parts. A "true trilogy" needs to have independent plots with interlacing threads.

Basically, Star Wars is a good trilogy, Lord of the Rings is a bad one... in very simple terms.
Hmmm...

Well I suppose you're right, but I think that such a distinction is debatable. You call Star Wars a good trilogy, but the plots of each movie aren't independent of each other. Each movie implies that there's more to the story, assumes that the viewer has seen the previous movie, or both.
 

Melancholy_Ocelot

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I think that trilogies have become a trend lately. The Pirates trilogy seemed (to me) manufactured since the first was so successful. The last two didn't have much bearing on the first one.

The Matrix took a similar gambit by "Testing the waters". The first film could have remained, but it left the door open for a second or third. Non of the superhero movies count as trilogies IMO (Spiderman, X-Men, Batman...) They will keep making those until they run out of ideas (and them they'll make another).

I guess my opinion is that they are good, but only if they know when to quit. Indiana Jones didn't and Star Wars toed the line, but has recently crossed it with the latest CG abomination. Lord of the Rings was done well, but it had a pre-made path to follow.
 

rossatdi

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You know what, I ignored the four obvious ones. Most can be disregarded as 'not good' easily enough.

Matrix - Awesome -> Dodgy -> Awful
Spiderman - Fun -> Funnier -> Stupid
X-men - Good -> Great -> well at least it wasn't Catwoman
Pirates of the Caribbean - "Get off the screen Bloom!" -> "ah, much better" -> "argh, no, he's back!"
 

XJ-0461

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A lot of trilogies initially start as a single film, then once companies see how popular it is, events get set in motion for sequels.
 

Rusty Bucket

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In terms of books, i'm getting bored of trilogies now. I find the huge series like The Wheel of Time and The Malazan Book of the Fallen are much better. I like film trilogies though, so long as they're planned as trilogies or come from books that are. Unplanned sequels are generally bad.

On a slightly different note (which mildly contradicts my above point), I don't understand the hate towards Die Hard 4. I thought it was awesome, it everything a die hard film needs. Also, i thought the third X-men film was the best. The first was downright boring, not to mention stupid and the second didn't really make any sense. Personally, i thought the story and themes explored in The third film were more interesting and the film was generally more exciting. Plus, Cyclops died.
 

Melancholy_Ocelot

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PedroSteckecilo said:
Actually a story told in three parts is just that, a story in three parts. A "true trilogy" needs to have independent plots with interlacing threads.

Basically, Star Wars is a good trilogy, Lord of the Rings is a bad one... in very simple terms.
I always thought trilogies were supposed to be episodic. Without a finite ending point other crappier films can ride a successful trilogies coat tails (the christal skull, more Pirates movies ect...)

Do you guys feel the same way about prequels as you do trilogies?
 

crepesack

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id beg to differ on all you lotr haters, in my opinion lotr as a BOOK was great...and obviously most of you haven't read the series judging by the fact you are grouping it with movies... In my opinion no movie trilogy would ever be good, the public's attention span is too wavering for one, ever to be "good", producers always want to add pizazz to a movie to make a fresh, but end up sacrificing plot to appeal to the masses. In other words, the majority of people are just plain stupid.

and actually... Lotr did have interlacing plots? merry& pippin were focused most on book 2 while frodo and sam book 3 and the first book was just a beginning. Then again you couldn't really consider lotr a trilogy if you go all the way back to the Hobbit, so by your "take" on trilogies, Lotr would contain 5. Similarion the very begining, the Hobbit, how the ring came to the shire and then the three basic books...so in my opinion a trilogy isnt three separate plots. It is a story told in three parts.

Your view is idiotic in that it sounds like only taking into account MOVIE TRILOGIES like Indie Jones. Just because it isnt three separate stories doesn't mean its a trilogy, it's just a trilogy that wasn't intended for the idiotic masses.

excuse the lack of "," and "'" bad habit when I'm typing online.
 

Doitpow

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I have to get this off my chest, this seems as good a place as any.
I prefer the new trilogy of star wars films to the old ones.



There, you've had time to react as most people (idiots) do, by saying I'm wrong or sick or something... Now i go further. Not only do I prefer them, they are just flat out better, in every way.

The star wars films were always about spectacle, the story line is just about as generic as you can get. The spectacle in the new movies was far better than the old ones, the battles, spaceships, lightsaber fights, the whole works. On top of that the story in the newer star wars films is more clever, the politics of the rebuplic become a focal point, which was a brave move given that the films were generally aimed at manchildren. The music was far better, both in composition and timing. Before people point the finger at minor characters being used in bad comic relief, remember that r2d2 was basically that, and the ewoks...Jesus. Yes we all miss Han Solo and his sarcastic retorts but there is only so many times you can recycle that particular Indiana Jones/James Bond humour.
The fact is that people love the old star wars films because they are just that...old. People are afraid to be cynical of them because its like attacking an elderly relative. People believe they have something to offer, whereas the reality is that they will just sit there, old and ugly, filling your house with piss.

There I've said it
 

Melancholy_Ocelot

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crepesack said:
id beg to differ on all you lotr haters, in my opinion lotr as a BOOK was great...and obviously most of you haven't read the series judging by the fact you are grouping it with movies... In my opinion no movie trilogy would ever be good, the public's attention span is too wavering for one, ever to be "good", producers always want to add pizazz to a movie to make a fresh, but end up sacrificing plot to appeal to the masses. In other words, the majority of people are just plain stupid.

and actually... Lotr did have interlacing plots? merry& pippin were focused most on book 2 while frodo and sam book 3 and the first book was just a beginning. Then again you couldn't really consider lotr a trilogy if you go all the way back to the Hobbit, so by your "take" on trilogies, Lotr would contain 5. Similarion the very begining, the Hobbit, how the ring came to the shire and then the three basic books...so in my opinion a trilogy isnt three separate plots. It is a story told in three parts.

Your view is idiotic in that it sounds like only taking into account MOVIE TRILOGIES like Indie Jones. Just because it isnt three separate stories doesn't mean its a trilogy, it's just a trilogy that wasn't intended for the idiotic masses.

excuse the lack of "," and "'" bad habit when I'm typing online.
First off, don't troll by calling people idiots. The Indiana Jones movies were a trilogy, they had common characters/rolls and themes, they just weren't episodic.

LOTR was a very well done episodic trilogy. The Hobbit (published first) was a pretense to a greater story. It stands alone as a great novel, but if you focused on the LOTR the I suppose it would be a prequel (though I don't see it that way).

The Similarion was written almost biblacy. It covers thousands of years over several continents...hell, it covers creation itself.

I agree that most people are stupid and movies are dumbed down to the lowest common denominator. Just look at what happened to the Golden Compass. That was an amazing trilogy which translated onto film as a giant turd.

P.S. who hasn't read LOTR... or at least The Hobbit?? Elitist much?
 

Caimekaze

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Trilogies, when well done, can be an extremely good way to convey an over-arching story that needs to be focused on in separate parts.

On such example is The Fencer Trilogy I'm reading currently, by K.J. Parker. The characters become increasingly complex through each book, as their individual facades are slowly stripped away, giving you a clearer insight into who they are; this sometimes results in a feeling of discomfort, for example when you discover that the protagonist isn't quite as nice a person as you may think. This sort of character development seems extremely forced if pushed into one book, so a trilogy has an advantage when done in this way.

The individual stories, while tied due to the characters and the general concept, are completely different, and span over the course of about 10 years. The writing changes for each one, focusing on the theme of the title. So, in "The Colours in the Steel" metaphors regarding fencing and the creation of swords are a big focus, in "The Belly of the Bow" the idea of compression and extension, of humans being like a bow is heavily focused on and in "The Proof House" the idea of testing armour until it breaks, and armour in general, is the theme.

This breakdown into a trilogy makes the series as a whole more enjoyable, although it can make the individual books seem somewhat confusing occasionally.

... I really went off tangent there. I need to write a review of that series once I finish the third book.
 

thelaughingman

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To quote my hero Kevin Smith (Silent Bob for those of you who have been living in a cave since the mid 90s) "There's only one 'Return', and it ain't of the King, it's of the Jedi
 

CapnGod

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Silverwebsurfer said:
I have to get this off my chest, this seems as good a place as any.
I prefer the new trilogy of star wars films to the old ones.



There, you've had time to react as most people (idiots) do, by saying I'm wrong or sick or something... Now i go further. Not only do I prefer them, they are just flat out better, in every way.

The star wars films were always about spectacle, the story line is just about as generic as you can get. The spectacle in the new movies was far better than the old ones, the battles, spaceships, lightsaber fights, the whole works. On top of that the story in the newer star wars films is more clever, the politics of the rebuplic become a focal point, which was a brave move given that the films were generally aimed at manchildren. The music was far better, both in composition and timing. Before people point the finger at minor characters being used in bad comic relief, remember that r2d2 was basically that, and the ewoks...Jesus. Yes we all miss Han Solo and his sarcastic retorts but there is only so many times you can recycle that particular Indiana Jones/James Bond humour.
The fact is that people love the old star wars films because they are just that...old. People are afraid to be cynical of them because its like attacking an elderly relative. People believe they have something to offer, whereas the reality is that they will just sit there, old and ugly, filling your house with piss.

There I've said it
The whole encompassing story is supposed to be about the rise and fall of Anakin Skywalker. I get that. In the original trilogy, he's a fucking badass. I wanted to see how he got there. I think the new trilogy was lacking in developing that. I don't care about five year old Anakin. Ok, maybe (and this is iffy) a flashback, but we didn't see significant development in him until halfway through the third movie. And fucking hell, what a whiny little *****! Lord Vader is not emo. Lord Vader force chokes your ass for shits and giggles.

Also, the massacre of the Jedi Knights was encapsulated in a three minute montage. Weak. Fucking weak. And bullshit. The downfall of the guardians of peace? Three minute montage? That should have been an entire fucking movie, not a fucking weak montage.

And they went down like five dollar whores, too. These are motherfucking Jedi in control of the motherfucking Force, and they go down to a handful of clones.

No, the new trilogy is an abomination.
 

Melancholy_Ocelot

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CapnGod said:
No, the new trilogy is an abomination.
You summed it up pretty well. I would be much more interested in seeing how Vader I saw at the end of epIII became the biggest badass in the galaxy. All I saw was "NNOOOooooOOOOO!!"

And how did he gain 150lbs of mussel mass and 12 inches of height between III and IV?