Thread Topic - LGBT and Video Games

[mad825]

That's your problem not ours, why are you taking this out on society?

I truly have no idea what you're talking about. Taking what out on society? How?

I truly have no idea what you're talking about. I merely pointed out that grassgremlin made a mistake and is now taking it out everyone else.

 

[Danny Dowling]

I think I speak for every straight man on the planet when I say that I would love to see more hot lesbians in video games.

Then again, I think everyone likes hot lesbians.

you sir, are speaking my language.

 

[Blue C Jeffrey]

Although it begs the question of whether there should be some standard in writing gay characters, especially since writing in video games is considered a joke by some. Should the sexuality of gay characters be very transparent, quite subtle, or something in between?

Is it alright if gay characters have their sexuality outside the spotlight in favor of unrelated personality traits? Should there be a purpose to have a character be gay? Should game writers/developers make gay characters even if they rely on stereotypes? Does it even matter?

The trick is still diversity, I think. Some of one kind, some of another, just as with straight characters.

As long as they're gay, huh? Fair enough, I suppose.

 

[Silvanus]

I truly have no idea what you're talking about. I merely pointed out that grassgremlin made a mistake and is now taking it out everyone else.

Right. What "mistake" did he make? And how does a perfectly politely-worded discussion thread constitute "taking it out on everyone else"?

As long as they're gay, huh? Fair enough, I suppose.

Well, no, I did say, "just as with straight characters". I'm just saying that we can have some stories wherein sexuality/relationship is incidental, and others in which the romance/relationship is more fundamental to the plot.

 

[Alex1508]

I really really dont give a damn, i dont mind playing different characters, in fact i tend to play as females more often then males (and they tend to be lesbians, but thats just my dick doing the thinking for me from time to time), and if i have the option i never play as a boring human, im into games because either A they challenge me in some way (thats why i play strategy games) or they draw me in with their characters and story. The thing i am worried about is how the pressure a lot of gamers put on developers to have more "diverse" characters (give us gay dudes, give us women, give us trans people etc. in games) that the developers will cave in and indeed give us more diverse characters, that will have one characteristic. You know the "look at this, our game has a gay dude in it, LOOK HOW PROGRESIVE WE ARE". We all ready saw this in the last of us, they introduced a very well done gay dude. The gay part of him was mentioned and they did not dwell on it too much, he was a recherche who's being gay was part of him not all of him, on the other hand we had the add on where they pretty much said " OCH LOOK ELLIE IS A LESBIAN AND WITH A BLACK CHICK, WE ARE SO PROGERSIVE, WE ARE SO COOL, BUY OUR GAME OR YOU ARE A HOMOPHOBE", the whole lesbian plot felt very forced in and pointless (the game dose not expand on it what so ever, there is no recherche building on it, and it seems VERY out of place) so i dont give a damn, i just want well made characters, if they are gay/what ever i dont give a fuck, just make them believable and not nonsensical

Personally, i'd rather have tokenism than nothing at all, at least it's a start and it increases visiblity for minorities, and then we can work up from. Also i never understood the ideea that a character being a minority needs to have a well established reason within the story to even exist, especially since straight, white, cis, etc characters don't need to.

 

[Gestapo Hunter]

[quote/]Personally, i'd rather have tokenism then nothing at all, at least it's a start and it increases visiblity for minorities, and then we can work up from. Also i never understood the ideea that a character being a minority needs to have a well established reason within the story to even exist, especially since straight, white, cis, etc characters don't need to.[/quote]

Problem is when they do tokenism for gays or any minority i cant take them seriously. To me it would almost be a bad joke about like those 80-90's cartoon like captain planet (team with all ethnicity so not to hurt anyone's feelings.

 

[Duster]

This is good for both making everyone feel welcome by having everyone represented, which is a great thing, and by expanding the concepts that can be explored and how well they can be executed, also great!

Well right from the getgo, It only fits in several types of games like you said, such as persona or mass effect. Even then, it's hard to find reasons to put them in the game. Even in a video game where deaths take place due to dating drama, sexuality wouldn't make much of a difference. If somebody comes onto you and you aren't attracted to their sex, you tell them quickly and there really isn't a problem. Even if it where about some girl that's in love with a gay guy and behaves irrationally as a result, that's really hard to take seriously. A primary problem is that the narrative potential doesn't translate well into video games without being very inane, or the game basically being a movie(cutscenes and qtes), such as vns or something like heavy rain.

And I say this for all genres, because I feel rpgs should not be let off the hook for this. Compare neverwinter nights 1 to nwn 2 for a moment. I don't even believe sex with partners is possible in nwn2, or I just havn't gotten that far yet, but it's very clear that bioware spent much more time and energy on the companions of the game, and I would say that I am underwhelmed with the narrative in comparison to nwn 1 thus far. Focusing on relationships, even if non sexual, sort of takes me away from the bigger picture. I have to force myself to listen to these characters blah dialogue for the voice acting to get the full experience, and having a mary sue around to say puns in dire times is much more annoying and more expensive to develop than some mercenary you hired out of a bar. It actually got so bad in nwn2 that I stopped playing the campaign for a bit and spent an hour or so trying to get rid of or kill one of my companions just so I didn't have to listen to the dialogue the company spent money making.

A series like SMT has a nice window to work with, where anime has the ability to throw away standard reasoning and logic for some juicy poetic allegories, but if you want your video game to have immersive atmosphere or story and not just be entirely dependent on romanticized everyday concepts then good luck.

 

[Dizchu]

I want more gay characters in games (especially tastefully-done lesbians because I personally identify with them more than male characters or straight females) HOWEVER I am extremely nervous about their inclusion ending up being tokenism.

I want characters, not stereotypes. I don't want an LGBT version of The Village People (instead of cultural appropriation, the appropriation of sexual orientations). I want characters that are human first, gay/trans/bi/queer second. Or third. Or something that is relatively irrelevant. If the time ever comes where homosexuality is treated as such a non-issue as heterosexuality, it'll be one more thing to help me sleep easier at night.

 

[mad825]

I truly have no idea what you're talking about. I merely pointed out that grassgremlin made a mistake and is now taking it out everyone else.

Right. What "mistake" did he make? And how does a perfectly politely-worded discussion thread constitute "taking it out on everyone else"?

Multi-accounts? Stay classy.

You seem to take a note worthy point of saying "what I did was wrong and it needs to be corrected". A militant and if not a heterophobia attitude. Both sides need to be defended from themselves to prevent one-sided arguments like yours.

 

[Gestapo Hunter]

I want more gay characters in games (especially tastefully-done lesbians because I personally identify with them more than male characters or straight females) HOWEVER I am extremely nervous about their inclusion ending up being tokenism.

I want characters, not stereotypes. I don't want an LGBT version of The Village People (instead of cultural appropriation, the appropriation of sexual orientations). I want characters that are human first, gay/trans/bi/queer second. Or third. Or something that is relatively irrelevant. If the time ever comes where homosexuality is treated as such a non-issue as heterosexuality, it'll be one more thing to help me sleep easier at night.

I think that's a problem the new Dragon Age game will face somewhat the token Village People party they put waaaay too much emphasis on the amount of gay or bisexual character in your party. If i was a writer for this game i would be pissed at the the PR department i would rather people play the game converse and get to know these character rather having their sexuality shoved out just for cheap PR.

 

[Lightknight]

While I'm not gay I think the ability to for the media to branch out to who it caters to is fantastic. It certainly hasn't hurt my ability to enjoy the games I play and in some cases has led to a subversion of my expectations that made the plot more interesting and memorable (I'm thinking of The Last of Us here, not saying anything further on that to not ruin anything).

As far as your comments on if it's making straight guys uncomfortable that they should go play elsewhere, that's exactly right. Games and stories are going to cater to some people and in doing so not cater to others. It's not like I don't have a million games to play from the straight perspective with anyways.

But yes, the future of gaming is bright and diverse.

 

[Silvanus]

Multi-accounts? Stay classy.

You seem to take a note worthy point of saying "what I did was wrong and it needs to be corrected". A militant and if not a heterophobia attitude. Both sides need to be defended from themselves to prevent one-sided arguments like yours.

This is my only account on the Escapist.

Also, nowhere does the OP say "what I did was wrong", or "it needs to be corrected". You're quoting nobody; making stuff up.

 

[happyninja42]

Instead of the usual threads I make, I'm going to get personal about some things.

I'm homosexual if it isn't obvious. I'm a boy who likes boys.
I've gone further then that, I also like drag too, but I never done it myself yet. I can't quite afford the clothes.

Ah yes, budget. A frequent limiting factor for many a drag enthusiast so I've been told. My sympathies to your bank account for your desired hobby.

I think I love this industry right now. What's being done right now and the diversity that is taking shape. Yes, this is a thread being positive about the idea of more gender-fluid games and LGBT representation.

I wanted this. No, I needed this. People may often seem me run about this thread, defending this and that about gamers who just don't care about these issues, but in all reality, I actually do care.

Good for you.

In fact, I never cared before until this actually became a thing. At first, I never thought about gay or trans characters in video games, but when they've started to pop up, there is . . . a certain feeling.

Do you feel light-headed? Do you see spots? Tightness in the chest? It might be a tumor. xD

Please don't tell me I'm the only one.

I think it's pretty safe to say you are not the only one who feels like you do.

You don't care because you're playing games and having fun, but when you're allowed the option, when I can be a girly boy transvestite or a black guy who doesn't look like Balrog or Barrett in a game, well . . . giddy does not begin to describe the feeling.

For the first time ever, I can make comics without the worries about things like "will I have a audience?" I can say, I'll make something really gay and have no fear.

Grats, good luck with your comic series.

Recently I spent all the time defending straight person's interest. After all if I want to have my fuck toys they can have theirs right. But, I'm taking up the task of trying on the gay defense for a change.

I wasn't aware our straight person interests were in need of defense, but thanks for your support anyway!

I want to reinforce that despite what I always say, I really do care about inclusive or diversity. I didn't even think about the zombie fighting in sunset overdrive. As soon as I read that the character customization was gender-fluid, I was all ears. I played guilty gear for Bridget. I prefer the king of fighter games with Ash Crimson.

Cool, hope you had fun playing them.

Does it matter if it makes sense in context? Honestly, I don't care. Truthfully, pandering and shoehorning doesn't bother me like most unless it's introduced subtlety. I usually only cringe when it's jarring.

Eh, anything that doesn't really make sense in context irks me. Unless it's a game like the Saints Row games where the premise is not giving two fucks about anything making a lot of sense. If the game is trying to be somewhat believable or realistic, and internally consistent, things that are out of context will irk me.

Gay games for me is 100% approval rating. I want more. I want no punches pulled. I'm very sex positive too. Call it niche' all you want but I want my gay DOA. If it makes straight guys uncomfortable, go play elsewhere.

....um...ok?

What do you guys think?

Think about what? The random things you stated and how we think about your opinion? The broad subject itself? You didn't really present a coherent question to reply to honestly, you just had a stream of concousness post.

Let's be selfish about what we really want.

Eh, I'd rather not. Being self about what we really want brings the focus inward instead of outward, which I don't think is always a good thing.

 

[Blue C Jeffrey]

As long as they're gay, huh? Fair enough, I suppose.

Well, no, I did say, "just as with straight characters". I'm just saying that we can have some stories wherein sexuality/relationship is incidental, and others in which the romance/relationship is more fundamental to the plot.

I understand and agree with what you're saying.

In terms of games that emphasize romance/relationships, though, are you thinking something like Mass Effect and Dragon Age? I remember reading an interesting topic before about the sexuality of romance-able companions. Some people argued that in the interest of player choice that most/all companions should be bisexual.

In your opinion would that count towards greater diversity and openness, or does it do more harm than good by limiting heterosexual/homosexual/asexual characters?

 

[mad825]

This is my only account on the Escapist.

Also, nowhere does the OP say "what I did was wrong", or "it needs to be corrected". You're quoting nobody; making stuff up.

......Well the thing was I wasn't quoting anyone except you hence my use of the quotation tags. I'll break this down for you;

Recently I spent all the time defending straight person's interest. After all if I want to have my fuck toys they can have theirs right.

Here the OP talks about how and why he stood-up for Heterosexuals even though he does sound cold, he mentions that he only does it because of his sexual interest in males per se.

But, I'm taking up the task of trying on the gay defense for a change.

And here for some reason his motivations have changed and he is re-correcting his attitudes for one side. It's almost like he's trying to bestow heterosexuals to feel privileged for his help.

So what he is saying, he tolerates heterosexuals in games but he doesn't like it. How it is said makes it like hetrosexuals owe him one.

And again, you seem to be taking a very strong interest, one specific interest out of my entire argument which is specifically about the OP's motivations. I cannot deny, it's interesting.

 

[SidheKnight]

Instead of the usual threads I make, I'm going to get personal about some things.

I'm homosexual if it isn't obvious. I'm a boy who likes boys.
I've gone further then that, I also like drag too, but I never done it myself yet. I can't quite afford the clothes.

I think I love this industry right now. What's being done right now and the diversity that is taking shape. Yes, this is a thread being positive about the idea of more gender-fluid games and LGBT representation.

I wanted this. No, I needed this. People may often seem me run about this thread, defending this and that about gamers who just don't care about these issues, but in all reality, I actually do care.

In fact, I never cared before until this actually became a thing. At first, I never thought about gay or trans characters in video games, but when they've started to pop up, there is . . . a certain feeling.

Please don't tell me I'm the only one. You don't care because you're playing games and having fun, but when you're allowed the option, when I can be a girly boy transvestite or a black guy who doesn't look like Balrog or Barrett in a game, well . . . giddy does not begin to describe the feeling.

For the first time ever, I can make comics without the worries about things like "will I have a audience?" I can say, I'll make something really gay and have no fear.

Recently I spent all the time defending straight person's interest. After all if I want to have my fuck toys they can have theirs right. But, I'm taking up the task of trying on the gay defense for a change.

I want to reinforce that despite what I always say, I really do care about inclusive or diversity. I didn't even think about the zombie fighting in sunset overdrive. As soon as I read that the character customization was gender-fluid, I was all ears. I played guilty gear for Bridget. I prefer the king of fighter games with Ash Crimson.

Does it matter if it makes sense in context? Honestly, I don't care. Truthfully, pandering and shoehorning doesn't bother me like most unless it's introduced subtlety. I usually only cringe when it's jarring.

Gay games for me is 100% approval rating. I want more. I want no punches pulled. I'm very sex positive too. Call it niche' all you want but I want my gay DOA. If it makes straight guys uncomfortable, go play elsewhere.

What do you guys think?

Let's be selfish about what we really want.

I'm agree 100%.

Diversity and sex-positivism FTW.

I know what you feel. As a straight Latin American guy, I also feel that giddy inside when I find a latino character in a video game that is not just some stupid stereotype.

 

[Popido]

What gay characters?

I feel like its just going down, not counting roleplaying sims. Trevor, Bill.

What was the last interesting homo? LoK was kind of bromantic.