Three golfers struck by lightning, Who would you save?
- Thread starter CrustyMedic
- Start date
i'd save the 45 year old, as the 45 year old has more of a family probably, that relies on him, the 15 year old is too young to be of any use, and would be a horrid tragedy but meh, and the 65 year old was probably ready for death
CrustyMedic said:
I'm not a (good)golfer myself, I was just using golf as a illustrative purpose. What I'm curious about is that we make decisions that impact others. How do we actually go about making them?
Reprobate's answer/nitpicking
It's either a trick question or eminently retarded. Why? There's too much information. The resources available are more than enough to save two, the defibrillator and CPR are not necessarily inclusive, and both people know CPR. If it's a trick question, then the answer is "the one you can save" because if your resources aren't enough to save but one even with all that there's a limiting factor that's not immediately obvious.
Medical noob answer
You should try and save the two younger ones first, because the 65 year old's ability to heal from his injuries and the further damage of CPR is likely reduced by comparison. Imminence of brain death could well be further off by sheer virtue of lower metabolic rate, too, so he might live a step short of PVS. The 15 year old stands the highest likelihood of recovering, IMHO.
Insane fantastical/science fiction answer:
Whichever one got hit by lightning first! They all suffered the same injuries, they're obviously linked! Hit the first one with the defib and they'll all go! Are they the same man time traveling?
Cynic's answer:
Well, who was funding this adventure? Golf isn't THE cheapest thing going, so who's going to pony up in displaced grief when the other two are dead? Quite possibly gramps, but don't give up on dad's survivor guilt either or mom and grandma's gratitude for junior. A quandary.
It's either a trick question or eminently retarded. Why? There's too much information. The resources available are more than enough to save two, the defibrillator and CPR are not necessarily inclusive, and both people know CPR. If it's a trick question, then the answer is "the one you can save" because if your resources aren't enough to save but one even with all that there's a limiting factor that's not immediately obvious.
Medical noob answer
You should try and save the two younger ones first, because the 65 year old's ability to heal from his injuries and the further damage of CPR is likely reduced by comparison. Imminence of brain death could well be further off by sheer virtue of lower metabolic rate, too, so he might live a step short of PVS. The 15 year old stands the highest likelihood of recovering, IMHO.
Insane fantastical/science fiction answer:
Whichever one got hit by lightning first! They all suffered the same injuries, they're obviously linked! Hit the first one with the defib and they'll all go! Are they the same man time traveling?
Cynic's answer:
Well, who was funding this adventure? Golf isn't THE cheapest thing going, so who's going to pony up in displaced grief when the other two are dead? Quite possibly gramps, but don't give up on dad's survivor guilt either or mom and grandma's gratitude for junior. A quandary.
The answer from an expert (yes i am): All of them, first of all a monkey can do CPR (and somewere in this world there is one that can) So the other golfers arent useless, if you know how to do CPR you can tell anyone how to do it in 2 seconds, may not be the greatest but its better than no CPR. Next slap the AED on the first golfer, if it says SHOCK ADVISED then shock him, place the pads on the next golfer see if it will shock, and do the same for the last golfer. It is possible and i know a paramedic that has actually had that exact same scenario a couple years ago and that is exactly what he did. But remember survival rate of cardiac arrest is extremely slim so chances are they will probably all die. hope that helps
You can save them all.
If you want to go for a purely bio mechanical method you or your mate start with chest compressions on the 45 year old and start the defib process on the 65 year old. The 65 year old is less likely to maintain oxygen in their blood so is more likely to suffer the effects of their heart stopping. The fifteen year old as the youngest and fittest should in theory be able to last longer.
The defib paddles do the process automatically so while the unit is processing you can do chest compression on the 15 year old.
The general process for CPR is to pause after every 15 or so chest compressions so that you can give them a breath, however the general consensus now is that in extreme cases chest compressions are enough as the blood stream usually contains enough oxygen to maintain life for upwards of 12 minutes.
If you want to go for a moralistic point of view start the defib process on the 15 year old and work up to the 65 year old.
If you want to go for a purely bio mechanical method you or your mate start with chest compressions on the 45 year old and start the defib process on the 65 year old. The 65 year old is less likely to maintain oxygen in their blood so is more likely to suffer the effects of their heart stopping. The fifteen year old as the youngest and fittest should in theory be able to last longer.
The defib paddles do the process automatically so while the unit is processing you can do chest compression on the 15 year old.
The general process for CPR is to pause after every 15 or so chest compressions so that you can give them a breath, however the general consensus now is that in extreme cases chest compressions are enough as the blood stream usually contains enough oxygen to maintain life for upwards of 12 minutes.
If you want to go for a moralistic point of view start the defib process on the 15 year old and work up to the 65 year old.
Nice reply, I tried to tailor the scenario for non medical people to see how or what they would do. What decisions they would make. And yes, most people can be shown basic CPR very quickly, but that may have precluded someone to make a actual decision on who to treat which is what I was curious about.hungoverbear said:
For those non medical people, when people are in cardiac arrest they are either in a shockable as stated above("ventricular fibrillation or pulseless ventricular tachycardia") or an non shockable rhythm "flatline (asystole) or pulseless electrical activity (heart sending message to beat but heart muscle not reacting to it)". So, it is important when there is a AED "Automated External Defibrilator" nearby it is applied quickly to see if someone is in a shockable rhythm and deliver that shock as it is those people we will be having the best chance of saving. Now the monkey wrench, there are 3 people down, who do we treat first.
Now CPR itself won't save those people in the shockable heart rhythm, but it does extend the time that a defibrilator (AED) can shock the heart into a rhythm that will return a pulse. So it is very important to do CPR.
Again, hungoverbear is on track with my thoughts, find the one in the shockable rhythm and give them that shock.
PS these AED's are easy to use and walk you through everything with voice prompts and pictures so don't be affraid to pull one out if needed.
PPS or PSS (whatever) We don't shock flatline, they only do it on TV or the movies.
