Tim Schafer Thinks Subject Matter of Games Needs to Expand

[Halfbreed13]

Why would we want gaming to become more mainstream than it already is?

Mo Money, Mo Games?

Jesus Christ that was quick.

Fair enough, but you know what else is mainstream?
The Jonas Brothers.

Case: Rested.
Also "mo'" is painful, even ironically.
Never again, boy.
Or we will have words (and then fisticuffs.)

/thread

I like book and games because they are less mainstream. Once the white kids who think they are gangsters come in and fuck it all up I am done.

 

[VitalSigns]

Why would we want gaming to become more mainstream than it already is?

Mo Money, Mo Games?

Jesus Christ that was quick.

Fair enough, but you know what else is mainstream?
The Jonas Brothers.

Case: Rested.
Also "mo'" is painful, even ironically.
Never again, boy.
Or we will have words (and then fisticuffs.)

/thread

I like book and games because they are less mainstream. Once the white kids who think they are gangsters come in and fuck it all up I am done.

So nothing independent and underground can ever be bad, and nothing mainstream can ever be good. This is the difference between someone who wants to be trendy, and someone who appreciates quality.

 

[Croaker42]

/thread

I like book and games because they are less mainstream. Once the white kids who think they are gangsters come in and fuck it all up I am done.

Someone was shocked that I read books.
Called me a "reader."

Next they'll be having us "readers" work on plantations in the South.
Or maybe they'll just skip the foreplay and toss us into some huge ovens.

"Hmmm Looks like we got us a reader." *lynch*

Im gona miss books

 

[LordSphinx]

Games have evolved a lot in its history, and it will keep doing so. Becoming mainstream means that it won't share the same fate as comic books: no future, no audience, no nothing, just utter crap, except Watchmen and a few others. This happened because they were always more of the same, being appreciated only by a very small niche of people.

 

[SomeBritishDude]

I'm not following him. Is he talking about the use of genres in terms of games, or in terms of the subject matter itself, vis a vis in its relation to movies and books?

Well, subject matter and genre are pretty simular ideas. The genre could be sci-fi and horror, and the subject matter could be sci-fi and horror. I think thats the meaning here.

Anyway, I have to agree with this. Not every game has to be a sci-fi/fantasy/horror/adventure ect. Games have been taking all their ideas from big blockbuster movies for too long. It's very difficult to take story telling in games seriously when they're subject matter is so limited or simply a rethink of somethings that's come before. Star wars/star trek clones are everywhere *stares at mass effect* and this quite simply needs to stop.

Why can't we have inventive enviroments or, more importantly, use more real people as the protagonists more often. I can't count how many times the pratgonist of a game has had a rediculous superpower or "badass" skills from the get go. This straight away puts a huge gap between the main character and audience. Not ever pratagonist has to be powerful. Hell, there are plenty of situations where a superpower or skill feels out of place all together, where was the last game where average joe was put in a exciting/unnusual situation?

Games have a hell of a lot way to go, thats all I'm saying. Tim Schafter is as guilty of this as anyone, though admitidly his storys are more inventive than most.

 

[Keane Ng]

Why would we want gaming to become more mainstream than it already is?

Because we don't want this industry to end up like the comics business.

 

[Woe Is You]

Why can't we have inventive enviroments or, more importantly, use more real people as the protagonists more often. I can't count how many times the pratgonist of a game has had a rediculous superpower or "badass" skills from the get go. This straight away puts a huge gap between the main character and audience. Not ever pratagonist has to be powerful. Hell, there are plenty of situations where a superpower or skill feels out of place all together, where was the last game where average joe was put in a exciting/unnusual situation?

Hotel Dusk? Another Code? Still Life? Ceville?

Hell, take a pick. [http://www.adventuregamers.com/index.php] Sure, the Halos and Killzones are the ones getting the most advertisements but a lot of these games people want already exist and they just haven't bothered to search for them.

And as much as the Wii is faulted for not catering to "hardcore gamers", we see a bunch of gametypes that are completely different from what the other consoles and the PC have to offer.

 

[Halfbreed13]

Why would we want gaming to become more mainstream than it already is?

Mo Money, Mo Games?

Jesus Christ that was quick.

Fair enough, but you know what else is mainstream?
The Jonas Brothers.

Case: Rested.
Also "mo'" is painful, even ironically.
Never again, boy.
Or we will have words (and then fisticuffs.)

/thread

I like book and games because they are less mainstream. Once the white kids who think they are gangsters come in and fuck it all up I am done.

So nothing independent and underground can ever be bad, and nothing mainstream can ever be good. This is the difference between someone who wants to be trendy, and someone who appreciates quality.

I never said that. I just think that any media is more sucseptible to being dumbed down and generally shit as it becomes more and more mainstream. If I am proven wrong I will be happy and stopped bashing mainstream stuff. Until then, fuck you 50 cent!

 

[SomeBritishDude]

I think it's mostly a matter to get better writers intersted in the industry. There's plenty of talented designerns and graphic artists there already, but the writing simply doesn't match up.

While this would be a start, it's not simply a case of grabbing a great writer and throwing them into games. Games are unique in the fact that it's an interactive media. They can't be writen exactly like a movie or book exfectively. Though it would be good to get great writers, they're lack of the experience with the media doe mean it's not a garantee for success.

Quite simply games are so, so far behind in the story department. People call Bioshock a great game story, which it is. But compare it to any book or movie given half as much praise, it just looks childish and rediculous, barly up to scratch. Gamers have really low expectations when it comes to game storys, and until this bar is raised we will continue to get subpare story telling and we will continue to let it slide.

 

[VitalSigns]

Why would we want gaming to become more mainstream than it already is?

Mo Money, Mo Games?

Jesus Christ that was quick.

Fair enough, but you know what else is mainstream?
The Jonas Brothers.

Case: Rested.
Also "mo'" is painful, even ironically.
Never again, boy.
Or we will have words (and then fisticuffs.)

/thread

I like book and games because they are less mainstream. Once the white kids who think they are gangsters come in and fuck it all up I am done.

So nothing independent and underground can ever be bad, and nothing mainstream can ever be good. This is the difference between someone who wants to be trendy, and someone who appreciates quality.

I never said that. I just think that any media is more sucseptible to being dumbed down and generally shit as it becomes more and more mainstream. If I am proven wrong I will be happy and stopped bashing mainstream stuff. Until then, fuck you 50 cent!

haha Im very involved in the underground music scene and hate rap with a passion. Generalizing is for idiots.

 

[The Great JT]

I seriously thing Schafer is a mad genius. He's certainly right, game companies are all about making the next super-blockbuster game, and it's stagnating the market.

 

[Woe Is You]

Quite simply games are so, so far behind in the story department. People call Bioshock a great game story, which it is. But compare it to any book or movie given half as much praise, it just looks childish and rediculous, barly up to scratch. Gamers have really low expectations when it comes to game storys, and until this bar is raised we will continue to get subpare story telling and we will continue to let it slide.

I don't really know whether such an emphasis on story really is that important to begin with. Part of the reason why movies, books and comics get to have better stories is that they're carefully crafted experiences that have been pre-baked for the viewer. Games? Not so much. In fact, the current way of doing story in games, I feel, is inadequate. The game and the story in a game are basically two separate things and you play the game to see the next pre-baked cutscene. If you want a strong narrative, the game will probably suffer from that. It's an interesting dilemma but I don't really think just "better writers" from some other field will solve that.

 

[SomeBritishDude]

Quite simply games are so, so far behind in the story department. People call Bioshock a great game story, which it is. But compare it to any book or movie given half as much praise, it just looks childish and rediculous, barly up to scratch. Gamers have really low expectations when it comes to game storys, and until this bar is raised we will continue to get subpare story telling and we will continue to let it slide.

I don't really know whether such an emphasis on story really is that important to begin with. Part of the reason why movies, books and comics get to have better stories is that they're carefully crafted experiences that have been pre-baked for the viewer. Games? Not so much.[b/] In fact, the current way of doing story in games, I feel, is inadequate. The game and the story in a game are basically two separate things and you play the game to see the next pre-baked cutscene.[/b] If you want a strong narrative, the game will probably suffer from that. [b/]It's an interesting dilemma but I don't really think just "better writers" from some other field will solve that.[/b]

I agree with this. There needs to be a bridge between game and story. Simply getting a script writer or director to slap a story onto a game doesn't work or so well, even if it is a great story in it's own right. Every time the player has to sit though a cut-scene that's another part of the actual "game" part gone.

There are a couple of games that have managed to bridge this gap somewhat with inventive story devices. The radios in Bioshock are a good example, a plot devise that causes minimal damage to the gameplay. Another good example are Valves use of grafity. I believe these are great steps in the right direction. No other media can pull these kind of devices effectively i.e. the players interacting and exploring is what moves the story alone. It really does open up a big tin of possibilitys.

Cut-scenes are a tricky thing however. There are plenty of situations in games where, if you do what to move the narrative alone, a cut-scene does look like the only option. I think games should try to avoid cut-scenes whenever possible, but if they must be used I think there are plenty of games that could once again take a leaf out of Valves book with interactive cut-scenes (I know there's another name but I can't think of it now). But it has to be said, these have been met with mixed feelings. It's a tricky situation, and I'm not a writer or a game designer, so I certainly doesn't know how to overcome them.

 

[Riding on Thermals]

The problem seems to be that there aren't an overabundance of games that allow the gameplay to enhance the story. We have either the open-world sandbox do-whatever-you-want-whenever games and JRPGs. What I mean to say is that most games either favor the gameplay or the story to the detriment of the other. Gaming will become more of an art form as the gameplay and story learn to play nicely with one another.

Honestly though, I don't really mind where gaming is at right now. Sure, I'd love more Portals and Mirror's Edges (as examples of games that are trying new types of gameplay and were IMO outrageously fun) but I certainly enjoy Oblivion and Final Fantasy.

 

[Sewblon]

I basically agree, if video games don't tackle the same subjects as other mediums they will stagnate and people will forget about them.

 

[SykoSilver]

I don't know if "broad axes and decapitation" are really much of an expansion. Franchises such as Silent Hill and Manhunt are more "super violent worlds" than Brutal Legend, I'm sure. However, I do agree that games need to break out of their genres more--thematic genres in particular. Heavy Rain looking pretty exciting for that...